H2H Category discussion

[MilkSpiller22]

Like if you did the exact reverse and invested heavily in pitching, and then drafted a bunch of cheap speed. That would theoretically give you an advantage in runs and SBs.

Ironically, your current strategy is exactly like the one you want to do away, just the hitting version of it.

Yes, but at least in offense, We all have the same opportunity of PA, that all stats are quality over quantity, even if you strategize to one particular category, the others are still all about how your players did...

The better example would have been about power hitters and how they are almost guaranteed RBIs too... But the good thing about that is that those are the best players and are drafted higher in the draft and are seen to be the better waiverwire pickups... Offense, it has its flaws too, but at least the quality is more present there...

WHen It comes to Ks and Wins that is 2 categories that are advantaged by the same Quantity, and are over-affected by the same quantity...

Truth be told, changing wins to QS would help much of my problems about the 2 start pitcher(Quality would now be more important)... It just won't address my problem with the saves category...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

even better than QS would be QS%...

 

[tlance]

Yes, but at least in offense, We all have the same opportunity of PA, that all stats are quality over quantity, even if you strategize to one particular category, the others are still all about how your players did...

The better example would have been about power hitters and how they are almost guaranteed RBIs too... But the good thing about that is that those are the best players and are drafted higher in the draft and are seen to be the better waiverwire pickups... Offense, it has its flaws too, but at least the quality is more present there...

WHen It comes to Ks and Wins that is 2 categories that are advantaged by the same Quantity, and are over-affected by the same quantity...

Truth be told, changing wins to QS would help much of my problems about the 2 start pitcher(Quality would now be more important)... It just won't address my problem with the saves category...

We will vote on those items again next winter. QS and saves plus holds both seem to be gaining interest, but it may still take a year or two before they get enough votes to pass.

I don't think any radical changes will ever get the support necessary.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

We will vote on those items again next winter. QS and saves plus holds both seem to be gaining interest, but it may still take a year or two before they get enough votes to pass.

I don't think any radical changes will ever get the support necessary.

I dont expect anything to change... and that is not the purpose of my posts... I am just pointing out what i see to be a problem... and gave a solution(whether it was good or bad is irrelevant)- i would never point out a problem without attempting to fix it, to me there is nothing more annoying than that...

again, just because i am happy with my fantasy team/league, does not mean i can not look for ways to improve it...

So dont take it personal and dont take it that i am not having a good time in the league...

 

[tlance]

I dont expect anything to change... and that is not the purpose of my posts... I am just pointing out what i see to be a problem... and gave a solution(whether it was good or bad is irrelevant)- i would never point out a problem without attempting to fix it, to me there is nothing more annoying than that...

again, just because i am happy with my fantasy team/league, does not mean i can not look for ways to improve it...

So dont take it personal and dont take it that i am not having a good time in the league...

I never do!

 

[da55bums]

thanks TKO for starting this thread...

First off you guys convinced me to change the IP category to QS instead... so now my pitching would be ERA,WHIP, K/9, QS, W + S

QUOTE]

thats close but make it H+S....if you have a QS thats better than W category, no need to have both.

QS-starters
H+S-relievers
era-both-more influenced by SP
whip-both-more influnced by sp
k/9-both-equal

 

[TKOSpikes]

k/9-both-equal

respectfully disagree!


speaking of the 2-start "risk"... Mike Minor is back in the rotation with the Dodgers and A's lined up. I think I gotta keep him on my bench, even though I have a shit load of starts, he might really inflate my peripherals... what's up with Minor anywhoo? I traded Kenley Jansen for him in my new dynasty league (Philabuster's)... hope he bounces back.

 

[TREFF]

respectfully disagree!


speaking of the 2-start "risk"... Mike Minor is back in the rotation with the Dodgers and A's lined up. I think I gotta keep him on my bench, even though I have a shit load of starts, he might really inflate my peripherals... what's up with Minor anywhoo? I traded Kenley Jansen for him in my new dynasty league (Philabuster's)... hope he bounces back.

As a lifelong Braves fan, I've never thought he was all he was hyped up to be. But even I thought he'd be better than he has been..like a low 4-ish, back end of the rotation guy..not a 5+ maybe shouldn't be in the rotation guy

 

[da55bums]

respectfully disagree!


speaking of the 2-start "risk"... Mike Minor is back in the rotation with the Dodgers and A's lined up. I think I gotta keep him on my bench, even though I have a shit load of starts, he might really inflate my peripherals... what's up with Minor anywhoo? I traded Kenley Jansen for him in my new dynasty league (Philabuster's)... hope he bounces back.

how so?

a stat they both can get, ...and better than era and whip in fairness...not perfect but about as equal as it gets and better than just K's that starters dominate in.

what w/9 better?

Name a stat that would be more fairly balanced to both SPs and RPs? seriously, not pissed, just curious, the debate has gone on in our league for decades.

 

[da55bums]

we eliminated the 2 starts in 1 league by adding a max starts...

if someone has 11 starts to 6 there is too much of a chance W and K's will almost always be won by the 11 starts...era/whip, still a toss up....and saves to the RP.

heck for a couple years, after my aces, the rest of the SPs I just went to CBS and looked at the 2 start pitchers and switched them out, week after week...I set the all time record for wins in a league that has been going 9 years. I did it in the one going almost 20 and thats the one we changed the max starts in...it eventually changed to a Roto league because of the 2 start system.

Just throwing out info from my experiences.

that S+H definately devalues the high end closers which are about as many as high end Aces.

 

[TREFF]

I honestly can't figure out why anyone thinks the 2 start pitcher deal is an issue. . It's part of a strategy that can either work or backfire, just like everything else. If we're talking about streaming 2 start pitchers, well every member of the league can pick those guys up, if you don't want your opponent to have Em, grab Em yourself, or deal with it when you see them in the lineup.

As to the max starts. . I've had weeks whee my natural rotation, using 2 closers, had 12, sometimes 13 starts, without picking up a 2 start guy. . Just the way the rotations worked out. Why should I be forced to bench a guy, or 2, grab a couple single start guys off waivers, possibly ruin my entire team build just so I don't have an "unfair" advantage over a guy who just happened to only have 6-7 starts that week?

Just don't see it as a problem in any way shape or form. Just part of the way the game is played. Both IRL, and in fantasy land.

 

[tlance]

how so?

a stat they both can get, ...and better than era and whip in fairness...not perfect but about as equal as it gets and better than just K's that starters dominate in.

what w/9 better?

Name a stat that would be more fairly balanced to both SPs and RPs? seriously, not pissed, just curious, the debate has gone on in our league for decades.

Look at all the K/9 rates league wide. If you take all the guys with K/9s over 10, most of them are relievers. When starting pitchers get converted to bullpen roles, their K rate usually increases and when relievers go to the rotation, the reverse is true.

The reason is that pitchers going to the mound for short stints can throw at maximal velocity and they can also stick to 1 or two pitches, whatever their best stuff is. Starters have to pace themselves and they need to mix in additional offerings to keep hitters off balance as they go through the lineup 2 and 3 times. All of these things lead to lower K rates.

Using K/9 along with H+S makes relievers too valuable relative to starters.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Look at all the K/9 rates league wide. If you take all the guys with K/9s over 10, most of them are relievers. When starting pitchers get converted to bullpen roles, their K rate usually increases and when relievers go to the rotation, the reverse is true.

The reason is that pitchers going to the mound for short stints can throw at maximal velocity and they can also stick to 1 or two pitches, whatever their best stuff is. Starters have to pace themselves and they need to mix in additional offerings to keep hitters off balance as they go through the lineup 2 and 3 times. All of these things lead to lower K rates.

Using K/9 along with H+S makes relievers too valuable relative to starters.

First off, Da55bums, even though i agree that 2 start pitchers is a problem to fix in H2H categories, i do think you guys go too far to fix it, I dont think it is good to end any strategy, all you want to do is weaken it...

And to tlance, you are right that Relief pitchers tend to have a higher k/9, the thing though in all ratios the more innings you have the less affect of one outing(especially a bad one)... So in a close race the team with more innings will generally always win... So yes relievers tend to better but you may still need the innings...

But either way, i agree with you that taking away the inning minimum would be a bad idea...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If the saves problem i see does not get fixed, then i think the best 5 for pitching to be

QS%,Ks,ERA,WHIP, Saves

the great thing about QS% is that it would be all about quality, and quantity can hurt just as easily as it could help... But you might still want to the 2 start strategy to win the Ks and give the slight advantage in QS%...

 

[tlance]

First off, Da55bums, even though i agree that 2 start pitchers is a problem to fix in H2H categories, i do think you guys go too far to fix it, I dont think it is good to end any strategy, all you want to do is weaken it...

And to tlance, you are right that Relief pitchers tend to have a higher k/9, the thing though in all ratios the more innings you have the less affect of one outing(especially a bad one)... So in a close race the team with more innings will generally always win... So yes relievers tend to better but you may still need the innings...

But either way, i agree with you that taking away the inning minimum would be a bad idea...

This is bang on, and also the reason that none of us see the 2 start pitching thing as a problem. DO you want awesome ratios, or more innings? You usually cannot have both in a competitive league, but either way you go can present its advantages.

If I am loading my lineup with a bunch of mediocre 2 start guys, I may get wins (or QS) and Ks, but I am shooting myself in the foot in the other 3 cats. Also, like TKO said earlier, if you have one start aces vs. my two start crap, you might still be able to win the two cats where I would have the advantage.

 

[TKOSpikes]

My 13 starts this week. 70 k's. Fuzzy's 10 starts, 70 (Rubby through 7, not sure if he's going out in the 8th... it's also 0-0 in that game, so a possible win is there....and right now I'm up 5-4 in wins)

I REST MY CASE!

 

[da55bums]

My 13 starts this week. 70 k's. Fuzzy's 10 starts, 70 (Rubby through 7, not sure if he's going out in the 8th... it's also 0-0 in that game, so a possible win is there....and right now I'm up 5-4 in wins)

I REST MY CASE!

lol, yes, there are no examples to rest the other side of the "case" this season...stick with the 13 starts to 10 starts example..guessing both had double starts with both having that many.

 

[TKOSpikes]

It happened to me three weeks ago too! And I don't have a bunch of bums either. Point being it's not a given.

 

[Chef99]

Not for nothin', but Phil Hughes looks like he was a helluva two-start pickup this week.