Game thread Rams VS Jags. Win or move to Los Angelas

[shopson67]

When victory is a kneel-down away, you kneel down. Would you prefer a pick 6 to tighten things up? The victory is the important thing, not trying to fix something by practicing in-game against a weaker opponent. Not sure exactly what that would gain.

 

[shopson67]

I disagree Red_Chaos and agree with Smed55. We have to build our confidence and you do that by scoring in the redzone at every opportunity. I know Manning would have thrown the TD and then sat down.

Nothing builds confidence more than the victory formation.

 

[Vitamike]

DK700. You risk injury on every play in the NFL. Why is the redzone at the end of a game any different? Because we are so bad in the redzone and have not scored a rushing TD to date, you run the ball into the endzone and then you let Zuerlein kick the ball out of the endzone like he has been doing all day. So what if the game ends with the defense. The Rams need all the work they get on offense and nothing should be left to just take a knee and the win and get out of town. In another situation I'd agree with you but we are not that good offensively yet!!

You do, and you should for meaningful plays!

However hindsight is 20/20 but in this instance we can use some foresight here, IMO.

If they run meaningless plays and say Bradford, Cook, Tavon, Stacy, Givens, Long or anyone of our starters with our depth issues gets put on IR from one of those meaningless plays everyone of us to a man would want heads to roll and question Fisher's football intelligence that's for sure! And rightly so.

 

[Retroram52]

If that is your reasoning Vita, then the first team offense should have been pulled the minute we scored to make it 34-20 or even 27-20 because by definition, we had the lead and the game was already decided. According to some other definitions, all plays thereafter are considered meaningless because we had the lead and the game was pretty much decided.

 

[Red_Chaos]

O look Peyton won a ball game by kneeing 3 times

 

[Retroram52]

I did not suggest a throwing play Shopson or even to pass. They were on the ten yard line when they went to the kneel down. I suggested that they score the TD by RUNNING the ball just as they had done the previous six or seven plays because we are the only team in the NFL that does not have a running TD in the league.

That is problematic for our offense because it signals to everyone that we are not a very good running team and we are in fact one-dimensional. Thus, defenses can prepare for us as such just like Jacksonville was doing with their 9 men in the box most of the game. That was another reason why our running game began to click. Jacksonville was stacking everyone in the box and then blitzing because they knew we suck at running and we have to pass nearly every down.

This is amazing to me that people who have been bitching about a krappy offense are now worried about injuries when we were running the ball and instead of continuing and completing the game and taking the presented opportunity to get better. Kneeling down does little when we are this bad.

 

[Retroram52]

That's rich Chaos. Just blanketly using a form of something to prove a point in a another set of circumstances. Apples to oranges comparisons don't quite cut it. Manning kneeling down is not the same Red_Chaos as the Rams doing a kneel down. Manning and the Broncos have no problem getting into the redzone both by the pass and the run and when they get there, they know exactly what to do with it. We on the other hand do not, as evidenced by our offensive production after four games.

According to DK7000, we are fourth in the league in redzone efficiency. I surmise that is primarily by the pass and not by the run. My entire point of this is that we DO NOT HAVE A TD BY THE RUN THIS YEAR and we are the ONLY TEAM in the league to have such a statistic. I suggested that we continue to run the ball to improve that area of the offense to which I was met with a barrage of quips about injuries and the like. What a load of hooey. We should have continued to run the ball into the endzone to signal to the offense that we are successful with our run game and we have improved.

 

[Red_Chaos]

I suggested that we continue to run the ball to improve that area of the offense to which I was met with a barrage of quips about injuries and the like. What a load of hooey.

I agree that we need to run the more ball. no question. but when the game is basically over, theres nothing more a team needs to prove. You save that for the practice and next game. Which our running backs are going to need more then ever if stacy is out an extended time with a rib injury

and of course your going to get bricking about injuries, this team is rittled with them. Not to mention ive seen it to many times at all levels of sports where a team gets greedy and loses a key player. and it sucks. just run out the clock and get the hell out of there.

We should have continued to run the ball into the endzone to signal to the offense that we are successful with our run game and we have improved.

personally the fact that gobbled up 143 yds is enough sign to me we've improved.
the big question now is can we do this against houston

 

[SJ76]

Hey Jack! We won!

Sam made a few good throws in the 2nd half that were nice. Missed a few too. And the Bad news is we don't play Jax next week.

Defensive front 7 looked good with Dunbar back. I still saw some bad decisions by Bradford, but the Rams got it done. And give it up for Stacey. We need a bigger back to mix with D Rich. That was nice, but again it was the Jags.

On to tougher defenses where Samatha will show up. The best play was when Sam tripped over Jake Longs foot. Typical bonehead scaredycat Samatha play we see EVERY game.

Anyone see Alshon's day today? 10 catches for 200+ yards. Anyone see the Luck versus Wilson game? Those boys are real QBs.

 

[mikey728]

Retro, not sure exactly why you're so fired up about not trying to run the ball into the end zone in the last minute and a half of a game that was over...I'm of the mind that the risks far outweigh the reward...I agree that getting a knee blown out or an ankle fractured in a meaningless situation is not a good choice...Obviously, differing opinions are good, I just can't agree with your logic on this one...

 

[Counselor Chris]

Sad sad both mods and members fighting where have I seen this before

Jeez no kidding. its a fucking message board....and we won. What's the problem?

 

[Smed55]

Sorry kids, I agree with Retro! We need those in game situations where red zone plays actually mean something. You can practice it all you want during the week, but it means nothing, as Allen Iverson says, it's Practice, there is nothing like actual game time situations. How are you suppose to know if this or that play is actually going to work unless you try it.

As far as injuries, you can't worry about that, you can have a guy get injured during Monday's practice just as easily as in Sunday's game. Sometimes that's a good thing, we've had guys that have come in and done a better job than the guys that were in there to begin with. as far as injuries over the past 5 -6 years we've had our share of them, at this point does that matter?

You can say that Manning and Brady have taken knees late, but I have seen plenty of times where they continue to throw the ball being up by 3 or 4 touchdowns, we aren't as good as the teams they are on, we need to take advantage of every opportunity that we have to practice( whether it's in a actual game
situation or not) we need the reps.

As far as Retro is saying, we don't have to throw the ball, our running game hasn't been that good, let's run the ball, see if we can get in the end zone and give our oline and RB's some confidence, something to go forward with and build on

That's just my 2 cents worth

 

[Vitamike]

If that is your reasoning Vita, then the first team offense should have been pulled the minute we scored to make it 34-20 or even 27-20 because by definition, we had the lead and the game was already decided. According to some other definitions, all plays thereafter are considered meaningless because we had the lead and the game was pretty much decided.

My reasoning states all and any snaps are unnecessary when a kneel down or series of kneel downs will result in the contest's end. Those scenarios don't fit.

Retro, I'm sure your statements are from frustration rather than your normal sound football ideals and principals or at least I would think so. If we take these type of risks without relative rewards we would be acting in a irresponsible way. You are right, we need the work but let me ask you this....

Say we win the next two games putting us at 4-3 and we find ourselves in the same scenario and still without a rushing TD, would you still feel the same way? In this scenario, we would move to 5-3 and no worse than one game back in our Division.

Now if the answer is still yes and we were to have our QB get injured and put on IR, wouldn't you say that we could kiss the season goodbye with Clemens at the helm?

Yes we needed the work, and I had hoped the scenario played out that required us to pound the ball a couple of more times but it didn't. I honestly thought it would take just one more run and was disappointed the situation didn't present the opportunity to get some extra confidence, but on the other hand I am thankful we got the win, gained some confidence and find ourselves with a chance to get back to .500 at Houston next week.

 

[Retroram52]

Sure Vita. Those are all valid points about potential scenarios that could happen and who is not frustrated with this team at this point. Smed55 basically sumed up what I have been attempting to convey here and yes it is a little aside from conventional wisdom but I am fairly tired of the status quo that winning solves everything when it doesn't-not with the Rams that are this bad after expecting to be much better.

If winning solves everything than we should have beaten the Cowboys the week after the Cardinals game but instead, gross inequities were exposed and the running game was one of them. And then with SJ76's help and arguing with you Vita, we all discovered just how bad Sammie is in his passing techniques and his apparent inability to adjust on the fly in combination with Shottenheimer's predictable play calling and the O-line's terrible blocking.

And then some of us knew that our defense was krappy and that our FO is really not that good at evaluating talent yet. Overall we the fams admitted that the Rams aren't that good and we have a lot of young players who make consistent mistakes especially on STs.

In this particular scenario, injuries are part of the problem and we are going to sacrifice that risk as is any endeavor in sports. Sure that would have been a blow to the team to lose Sammie in favor of Clemens but running Zac Stacey yesterday in the course of a game and getting him hurt: Was that not an injury risk that could have been avoided? Nope because Pead and Richardson were not getting it done and our running game was badly in need of repair. Neither was Williams at guard. That is why he was replaced by Shelly Smith and the replacements worked just as Finnegan not playing was good.

I am stating that sound principles do not NECESSARILY apply when we are this bad and sometimes drastic measures must be applied to get a team further ahead despite the risks. Yesterday was one of those opportunities that we squandered. I have coached before and I can tell you, when a team is really bad and you have a lot of holes like we do, you must do things that are sometimes conventional in order to fix them. We have a lot of holes and the next one we face this week as we are a terrible team on the road even though Houston got beat yesterday badly. How are we going to fix that? Go back to passing the ball with those stupid underneath passes that are som predictable? I don't think so. Nope, we are going to have to run the ball and then pass and then play great defense because in this game, those idioms still ring true to be winners. If we win the game then we have improved and then it becomes consistent. Then you kneel down!!

Some of you "fans" who live by sports cliche's are going to discover a few things about being a fan especially with this Rams organization. One of which is that cliche's are BS when it comes to this club especially in light of our recent history (last decade). We have way too many skeletons we seem to revert to as default behavior one of which is the failure to take advantage of opportunities presented on and off the field like whiffing on good players available and settling for krappy players both in the draft and FA or missing chances to work on problem areas like nearly every aspect of the Rams total game like yesterday.

Yes we won the game but did we get better in win on the road? How would you know? The answer is we have to PLAY ON THE ROAD to know. And we get that chance this week. We shall see if I am correct or I simply had a moment of temporary insanity that many of you are thinking that occurred.

 

[DK7000]

That's absurd to squander opportunities when presented. And you can lose the name calling DK7000; about anyone's intelligence. You keep that krap up and you and I are going to have a little rendezvous. Capeeche!

Don't post things that make me question your intelligence then.

 

[Retroram52]

O.K. DK7000. If that is the criteria you want to play by then it will be held against you as well.

 

[Retroram52]

Furthermore DK7000, who died and left you in charge of the standard in sports intelligence or any kind of intelligence for that matter. Why don't you enlighten me in any specific training you might have that indicates an expertise in recognizing intelligence because I have had that training and I have advanced degrees to prove that. What do you have? And tell me how long have you been following sports or maybe you have some coaching experience that would contribute to your assertion that you know intelligence in sports? You post that resume and then I might accept your challenge. Otherwise you'll accept my asssertion that you can have differences of opinion in posting here without using deflamatory characters in your post. And that will be fact. Your move chief.

 

[DK7000]

O.K. DK7000. If that is the criteria you want to play by then it will be held against you as well.

That's fine by me. If I post something ridiculous, please call me out on it.

Furthermore DK7000, who died and left you in charge of the standard in sports intelligence or any kind of intelligence for that matter. Why don't you enlighten me in any specific training you might have that indicates an expertise in recognizing intelligence because I have had that training and I have advanced degrees to prove that. What do you have? And tell me how long have you been following sports or maybe you have some coaching experience that would contribute to your assertion that you know intelligence in sports? You post that resume and then I might accept your challenge. Otherwise you'll accept my asssertion that you can have differences of opinion in posting here without using deflamatory characters in your post. And that will be fact. Your move chief.

If you've been following sports for all these years, then why can't you see that taking a knee to end the game is the best and only solution?

 

[Vitamike]

Sure Vita. Those are all valid points about potential scenarios that could happen and who is not frustrated with this team at this point. Smed55 basically sumed up what I have been attempting to convey here and yes it is a little aside from conventional wisdom but I am fairly tired of the status quo that winning solves everything when it doesn't-not with the Rams that are this bad after expecting to be much better.

If winning solves everything than we should have beaten the Cowboys the week after the Cardinals game but instead, gross inequities were exposed and the running game was one of them. And then with SJ76's help and arguing with you Vita, we all discovered just how bad Sammie is in his passing techniques and his apparent inability to adjust on the fly in combination with Shottenheimer's predictable play calling and the O-line's terrible blocking.

And then some of us knew that our defense was krappy and that our FO is really not that good at evaluating talent yet. Overall we the fams admitted that the Rams aren't that good and we have a lot of young players who make consistent mistakes especially on STs.

In this particular scenario, injuries are part of the problem and we are going to sacrifice that risk as is any endeavor in sports. Sure that would have been a blow to the team to lose Sammie in favor of Clemens but running Zac Stacey yesterday in the course of a game and getting him hurt: Was that not an injury risk that could have been avoided? Nope because Pead and Richardson were not getting it done and our running game was badly in need of repair. Neither was Williams at guard. That is why he was replaced by Shelly Smith and the replacements worked just as Finnegan not playing was good.

I am stating that sound principles do not NECESSARILY apply when we are this bad and sometimes drastic measures must be applied to get a team further ahead despite the risks. Yesterday was one of those opportunities that we squandered. I have coached before and I can tell you, when a team is really bad and you have a lot of holes like we do, you must do things that are sometimes conventional in order to fix them. We have a lot of holes and the next one we face this week as we are a terrible team on the road even though Houston got beat yesterday badly. How are we going to fix that? Go back to passing the ball with those stupid underneath passes that are som predictable? I don't think so. Nope, we are going to have to run the ball and then pass and then play great defense because in this game, those idioms still ring true to be winners. If we win the game then we have improved and then it becomes consistent. Then you kneel down!!

Some of you "fans" who live by sports cliche's are going to discover a few things about being a fan especially with this Rams organization. One of which is that cliche's are BS when it comes to this club especially in light of our recent history (last decade). We have way too many skeletons we seem to revert to as default behavior one of which is the failure to take advantage of opportunities presented on and off the field like whiffing on good players available and settling for krappy players both in the draft and FA or missing chances to work on problem areas like nearly every aspect of the Rams total game like yesterday.

Yes we won the game but did we get better in win on the road? How would you know? The answer is we have to PLAY ON THE ROAD to know. And we get that chance this week. We shall see if I am correct or I simply had a moment of temporary insanity that many of you are thinking that occurred.

Retro, I'm not even talking about what if..... I'm really talking about not having a problem with the HC making a decision for his team to kneel down in victory when it ends the game. Its his decision and he suffers the consequences either way. I brought up the scenario to illustrate a situation that could result where Fisher's on every talk shows' hottest topic questioning the move and negative results. Much as they did when Rex Ryan had Mark Sanchez out there in the 4th Quarter of a preseason game and got hurt. Now they just drafted a QB pretty high too so even that move wasn't real risky. This time it worked out for Ryan however we don't always find such a happy ending. Remember Marty Schottenheimer making a coaching blunder in the playoffs at the end of a game and getting fired after his team lost? The odds were against it blowing up in his face too however when it did he was fired! Everyone was talking about it too. However he had just posted the Chargers single best regular season record ever and was with them around 2 years!

So let's put it this way, I'm okay with a Head Coach making 'Live by the sword, die by the sword' decision when he wants to but wont jump on him if he he plays it a bit safer either.

I'll tell you one thing though, kneeling in a loss like we did in a previous game makes me sick! If you are losing you fight until the last second, never give up or concede a loss until it's official and the loss is in the record books.

 

[Retroram52]

That makes sense and I think this issue has been resolved. Time to move along with next week.