Fuller a Bronco

[cdumler7]

I also agree, but I think it's important the Broncos take this year with him. Swapping out QBs every two years is no way to do it. Someone mentioned Josh Allen and I think that's a decent comparison except Lock had the disadvantage of 2020 being his second season. Between the injury in week 2 and the overall weirdness of how the year unfolded, including before the season started, I definitely think the 5 game sample from 2019 and last year's work cannot yet give us a whole picture.

But if it's more of the same in 2021 then I agree it's probably time to move on. QB is the most important position in all of team sports. These guys need to be able to adjust to it quickly or they are not going to get a chance. You look at the saga of NFL QBs for most teams and it's a 3-4 year cycle for half the league. I'd like the Broncos to not be one of those teams, which is one of the reasons I hope Lock works out for us.

There are three reasons that honestly I am ready to move on. 1) Lock's numbers through his first 2 seasons ranks among some of the worst and very few that have performed like him have ever turned their career around. You are asking him to be the exception not the rule. I like Lock and if the Broncos stick with him I"ll be cheering loud for him to be successful, but the odds are stacked against him.
2) Unfortunately him being 2-years into the contract and still not being a known means the Broncos are going to have to decide quickly whether he is the future. My biggest worry is he goes and has an average season this next year and the Broncos then have to pay an average QB big money. A rookie resets the clock especially taking one in the 1st round with 5-years of control. Allows the Broncos to pay a lot of players big money and keep a talented roster around for the next few years.
3) This 2021 draft class is unique. Not often you have 4 guys that all deserve to be top-10 picks and would be in most draft classes if not all. Passing up a QB this year could really come back to bite the Broncos for a very long time. Throw in this roster even with Lock playing bad still has enough talent to win some games. I'm not sure they are picking top-10 even if Lock plays terrible.

 

[Mingo]

There are three reasons that honestly I am ready to move on. 1) Lock's numbers through his first 2 seasons ranks among some of the worst and very few that have performed like him have ever turned their career around. You are asking him to be the exception not the rule. I like Lock and if the Broncos stick with him I"ll be cheering loud for him to be successful, but the odds are stacked against him.
2) Unfortunately him being 2-years into the contract and still not being a known means the Broncos are going to have to decide quickly whether he is the future. My biggest worry is he goes and has an average season this next year and the Broncos then have to pay an average QB big money. A rookie resets the clock especially taking one in the 1st round with 5-years of control. Allows the Broncos to pay a lot of players big money and keep a talented roster around for the next few years.
3) This 2021 draft class is unique. Not often you have 4 guys that all deserve to be top-10 picks and would be in most draft classes if not all. Passing up a QB this year could really come back to bite the Broncos for a very long time. Throw in this roster even with Lock playing bad still has enough talent to win some games. I'm not sure they are picking top-10 even if Lock plays terrible.

LOL - okay so why would the Broncos end up paying "big money" if Lock proves to just be an adequate QB?

Also there are some very obvious mitigating factors that could explain Lock's average numbers over two years - the pandemic, two offensive coordinators in two years, a crappy oline in year 1, losing his top receiver and pretty much trying make a go of it with rookie WRs, and then there is Lock trying to comeback and play after injuries during each season.

I guarantee you the hype of next years QB crop will be build and be just like every other year.

 

[CEH]

Lock needs to be the 2nd best QB in the AFCW which means 30 TDs and 10 INTs

would root for Denver either way but have a hard time seeing less than 10 INTs from Lock.

if we run it back with Lock most likely a trade back.

FOMO is huge in this draft both with mis evaluating Lock or passing on the new QBs

 

[fightinredantz]

I have heard that the Jets may be looking at Wilson at 2, and Atlanta really likes Lance. Who knows if that is accurate, or if that is just smoke.

I could see it going like this:
1. Jacksonville - Lawerence
2. NY Jets - Wilson
3. Miami - LT, WR
4. Atlanta - Lance
5. Cincinnati - WR, LT
6. Philadelphia - Fields, Pitts
7. Detroit - Fields, WR
8. Carolina - Fields if he is there

So at 9 we have our choice of the best defensive player, trade back, or Mac Jones.

I personally like the trade back option.

 

[SpringStein]

I personally like the trade up option.

 

[cdumler7]

LOL - okay so why would the Broncos end up paying "big money" if Lock proves to just be an adequate QB?

Also there are some very obvious mitigating factors that could explain Lock's average numbers over two years - the pandemic, two offensive coordinators in two years, a crappy oline in year 1, losing his top receiver and pretty much trying make a go of it with rookie WRs, and then there is Lock trying to comeback and play after injuries during each season.

I guarantee you the hype of next years QB crop will be build and be just like every other year.

Teams pay an average QB because they fear what life without even average would look like. Look at how many average QB's keep getting paid huge money. Heck Vikings gave up a 1st round pick and more for Sam Bradford after all of his injuries and average play because of fear of playing without average. It happens all the time. We have seen even above average guys get close to record setting deals at times and teams stick with them in the hopes that maybe they will take just one more step but never can.

And all those reasons you gave maybe they are right, but to me if you have to keep coming up with reasons of why your QB failed then you have already shown they are not it. Watson this last year had almost nothing around him, bad OL, bad coach, traded away his best weapon, and the guy still played like atop-5 QB. Look at the QB's who have come in of recent and right away were able to perform at a high level even though not all of them had greatness around them. Justin Herbert had the worst OL in football last year yet broke a bunch of rookie records.

If the Broncos stick with Lock I will of course cheer for him and hope that maybe he is the exception in these situations. And no next year's class will not be like this one. It is very rare that 4 guys are worthy of top-10 picks in any draft. Heck most drafts finding even 2 guys is very rare.

 

[Mingo]

Teams pay an average QB because they fear what life without even average would look like. Look at how many average QB's keep getting paid huge money. Heck Vikings gave up a 1st round pick and more for Sam Bradford after all of his injuries and average play because of fear of playing without average. It happens all the time. We have seen even above average guys get close to record setting deals at times and teams stick with them in the hopes that maybe they will take just one more step but never can.

And all those reasons you gave maybe they are right, but to me if you have to keep coming up with reasons of why your QB failed then you have already shown they are not it. Watson this last year had almost nothing around him, bad OL, bad coach, traded away his best weapon, and the guy still played like atop-5 QB. Look at the QB's who have come in of recent and right away were able to perform at a high level even though not all of them had greatness around them. Justin Herbert had the worst OL in football last year yet broke a bunch of rookie records.

If the Broncos stick with Lock I will of course cheer for him and hope that maybe he is the exception in these situations. And no next year's class will not be like this one. It is very rare that 4 guys are worthy of top-10 picks in any draft. Heck most drafts finding even 2 guys is very rare.

So you would have canned Josh Allen after his first two years - right?

Also - I have not seen a QB with more drops that Lock got last year - those drops weren't on him.

I still don't understand your argument on paying big on an average QB - that is an independent decision from a decision to let Lock play out year three to rid themselves of all the excuses I have listed.

 

[cdumler7]

So you would have canned Josh Allen after his first two years - right?

Also - I have not seen a QB with more drops that Lock got last year - those drops weren't on him.

I still don't understand your argument on paying big on an average QB - that is an independent decision from a decision to let Lock play out year three to rid themselves of all the excuses I have listed.

No I would not have gotten rid of Josh Allen. 1) 5th year option matters. Gives the team that much more control of the situation. 2) He showed dramatic improvement from year one to year two. 3) Josh Allen might be the most physically gifted QB in the entire NFL when you combine arm talent and running ability. 4) He hasn't had the injury history of Lock so far during his time in the NFL. 5) The team was winning that 2nd year and winning buys you more time.

Again what I mean by the average QB getting paid that teams are willing to stick with the known even if they know it is not quite good enough to get them over the top. So guys like Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Jared Goff, Jimmy Garoppolo. So my big fear is that Lock shows himself to be right in that 16-18 range of QB this next year and Broncos decide to stick with him because hey we haven't had that since Manning left and then we keep sticking with that even though that means we have the 4th best QB in the division every single season.

 

[Draft Crazy]

LOL - okay so why would the Broncos end up paying "big money" if Lock proves to just be an adequate QB?

Also there are some very obvious mitigating factors that could explain Lock's average numbers over two years - the pandemic, two offensive coordinators in two years, a crappy oline in year 1, losing his top receiver and pretty much trying make a go of it with rookie WRs, and then there is Lock trying to comeback and play after injuries during each season.

I guarantee you the hype of next years QB crop will be build and be just like every oth

I personally like the trade up option.

I like the trade up option better this year or stay where we are. As I said before.. IMO this is a draft you want to stay in the top 12-15 for.

No idea why this also quoted Mingo.

 

[SpringStein]

No idea why this also quoted Mingo.

Now I think I know why Mingo asked for our Russian tech person”# contact information.

 

[Mingo]

Teams pay an average QB because they fear what life without even average would look like. Look at how many average QB's keep getting paid huge money. Heck Vikings gave up a 1st round pick and more for Sam Bradford after all of his injuries and average play because of fear of playing without average. It happens all the time. We have seen even above average guys get close to record setting deals at times and teams stick with them in the hopes that maybe they will take just one more step but never can.

And all those reasons you gave maybe they are right, but to me if you have to keep coming up with reasons of why your QB failed then you have already shown they are not it. Watson this last year had almost nothing around him, bad OL, bad coach, traded away his best weapon, and the guy still played like atop-5 QB. Look at the QB's who have come in of recent and right away were able to perform at a high level even though not all of them had greatness around them. Justin Herbert had the worst OL in football last year yet broke a bunch of rookie records.

If the Broncos stick with Lock I will of course cheer for him and hope that maybe he is the exception in these situations. And no next year's class will not be like this one. It is very rare that 4 guys are worthy of top-10 picks in any draft. Heck most drafts finding even 2 guys is very rare.

So you would have canned Josh Allen after his first two years - right?

Also - I have not seen a QB with more drops that Lock got last year - those drops weren't on him.

I still don't understand your argument on paying big on an average QB - that is an independent decision from a decision to let Lock play out year three to rid themselves of all the excuses I have listed.

Now I think I know why Mingo asked for our Russian tech person”# contact information.

Now I think I know why Mingo asked for our Russian tech person”# contact information.

Bot - I'm always quotable -

 

[cdumler7]

So you would have canned Josh Allen after his first two years - right?

Also - I have not seen a QB with more drops that Lock got last year - those drops weren't on him.

I still don't understand your argument on paying big on an average QB - that is an independent decision from a decision to let Lock play out year three to rid themselves of all the excuses I have listed.



Bot - I'm always quotable -

I've already said I would not have canned Josh Allen for all the reasons above. Josh Allen took very positive steps towards good things his 2nd year where Lock regressed most of the season. There are many more that I outlined above but that is the biggest. If Lock took steps in the right direction I would have no problem giving him another season. The things he regressed in have nothing to do with Covid, new play book, rookies playing with him, or the drops. My biggest issues is that his mechanics if anything have gotten worse during his time in the NFL. He has the same footwork issues that he has had since his freshman year in college (haven't been able to watch his high school tape but betting he had these same issues then as well). That lack of growth in such a critical part to his game that has directly led to interceptions and bad decisions is why I struggle to want to move forward with Lock.

the other issue is people I have talked to and even listened to some speak on it publicly say they think Lock doesn't even realize his mechanical issues are a problem. If he can't see the issue smacking him the face it is hard to expect actual good growth in his game.

 

[CEH]

This screams Paton is doing all he can for Vic in 2021 to help make a decision on his HC ability

Defense

Bryce Callahan, Kyle Fuller, Bradley Chubb, Malik Reed, Alexander Johnson, Josey Jewell, and Kareem Jackson playing on contracts that expire after the 2021 season.

 

[Draft Crazy]

This screams Paton is doing all he can for Vic in 2021 to help make a decision on his HC ability

Defense

Bryce Callahan, Kyle Fuller, Bradley Chubb, Malik Reed, Alexander Johnson, Josey Jewell, and Kareem Jackson playing on contracts that expire after the 2021 season.

Very unlikely we don't pick up Chubb's 5th year option so his contract is unlikely to expire at the end of the 2021 season. Malik Reed will be in year 3 of an undrafted contract so he will at least be restricted. Excited to see how he grows this year. He started to show consistency last year.