For all you Lebron Haters

[Shaqdaddy11]

I saw a lot of you folks saying that Lebron was only great because of how weak the Eastern conference is. I was curious what your response would be to this thread.

I do not expect unbiased answers.

Simple.

Lebron gets drafted in 85 instead of Ewing he still has to make it past Larry Celtics, Barkly and Malones Sixers, then the Bad Boy Pistons and Jordans Bulls.

No way he makes it to as many finals as he does now. I doubt he even gets one title.

 

[trojanfan12]

I honestly believe that Lebron could play any position and play it exceedingly well.

I agree. About the only position that I don't think he could have played, at least in the 80's and 90's is center. There were just too many true 7 footers and as much of an athletic freak as he is, it would have worn him down.

The reason I don't think he'd be the same type of player he is today, is because, with the way the game was played in the 90's, I think most coaches that he came across would have stuck him at PF and tried to make him the next Karl Malone (which obviously means he'd still be really, really good and an HOF'er like Malone).

Now, if he got coaches along the lines of the one's Magic had...then we may have seen him play more like the guy we see today. I just question how many of those coaches were around in the 90's when the premium was on physical play. I'm not even sure Magic would have been the guy we saw in the 80's if he had come up in the 90's.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

You can't use Lebron's Finals' record to make a case for his being the all time best.
He is now 3-4 in finals series. MJ was 6-0 and Russell was 11-1, but 11-0 when able to play.
I know people want to give Brady as much credit for losing Super Bowls as winning them, but that isn't how champions are judged.
That doesn't necessarily mean Lebron can't be considered the best ever, some consider Wilt the best, and it's not something to dismiss just because Russell's teams dominated his teams.

 

[flyerhawk]

Simple.

Lebron gets drafted in 85 instead of Ewing he still has to make it past Larry Celtics, Barkly and Malones Sixers, then the Bad Boy Pistons and Jordans Bulls.

No way he makes it to as many finals as he does now. I doubt he even gets one title.

Larry's Celtics and MJ's Bulls didn't really overlap. By the time Lebron would have been chasing titles Bird would have retired. Moses Malone was off the Sixers by 85.

I don't think that Lebron would have gone to 7 straight championships certainly. But neither would MJ.

But I see your Lebron dislike clearly outweighs all considerations. That's cool.

 

[trojanfan12]

I saw a lot of you folks saying that Lebron was only great because of how weak the Eastern conference is. I was curious what your response would be to this thread.

Lebron is a great player because Lebron is a great player, not because of the conference he plays in. Some of his resume (like being on pace to make his 7th straight finals) is the result of how weak the East is. But as far as him being a great player and the best in the game today, that wouldn't change regardless of conference.

The only difference is that, in the West, he might not be looking at going to his 7th straight finals.

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree. About the only position that I don't think he could have played, at least in the 80's and 90's is center. There were just too many true 7 footers and as much of an athletic freak as he is, it would have worn him down.

You say that but Magic played center in the NBA finals. Scored 42 points and nabbed 15 rebounds. I don't think that Lebron could consistently play center because it would wear him down, I agree with that. But he could play that position without question.

The reason I don't think he'd be the same type of player he is today, is because, with the way the game was played in the 90's, I don't think most coaches that he came across would have stuck him at PF and tried to make him the next Karl Malone (which obviously means he'd still be really, really good and an HOF'er like Malone).

Certainly Lebron would have needed a good coach. That's why I thought of the Knicks. I think Pat Riley would have figured out how to maximize his freakish abilities.

Now, if he got coaches along the lines of the one's Magic had...then we may have seen him play more like the guy we see today. I just question how many of those coaches were around in the 90's when the premium was on physical play. I'm not even sure Magic would have been the guy we saw in the 80's if he had come up in the 90's.

See one Riley, Pat.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Larry's Celtics and MJ's Bulls didn't really overlap. By the time Lebron would have been chasing titles Bird would have retired. Moses Malone was off the Sixers by 85.

I don't think that Lebron would have gone to 7 straight championships certainly. But neither would MJ.

But I see your Lebron dislike clearly outweighs all considerations. That's cool.

That's why I used the word the Celtics, then the Bulls

Lebron has had NO competition in the east for most of his career. How is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Larry's Celtics and MJ's Bulls didn't really overlap. By the time Lebron would have been chasing titles Bird would have retired. Moses Malone was off the Sixers by 85.

I don't think that Lebron would have gone to 7 straight championships certainly. But neither would MJ.

But I see your Lebron dislike clearly outweighs all considerations. That's cool.

I think Lebron wins titles on strong teams in any era, but not with weak rosters.
His 3 titles have come when he's had other great players on his teams, even then he's lost 3 times.

 

[flyerhawk]

Lebron is a great player because Lebron is a great player, not because of the conference he plays in. Some of his resume (like being on pace to make his 7th straight finals) is the result of how weak the East is. But as far as him being a great player and the best in the game today, that wouldn't change regardless of conference.

The only difference is that, in the West, he might not be looking at going to his 7th straight finals.

A very reasonable point. I generally agree. He certainly would not have taken that first Cavs team to the finals in the West.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Moses Malone was off the Sixers by 85.

86

 

[Kold]

It all depends on coaches. Magic had coaches who didn't pigeon hole him because of his height. He also wasn't as physically strong a Lebron. I wouldn't be surprised at all if coaches when Lebron was young stuck him at PF.

Not only that, but the big man was all the rage in the 90's. Lebron MAY have been in the Malone, Robinson, Barkley role of being a big, post man that just so happened to have the ability to handle the ball. I don't think he would of been the Lebron that we've come to know now

 

[flyerhawk]

I think Lebron wins titles on strong teams in any era, but not with weak rosters.
His 3 titles have come when he's had other great players on his teams, even then he's lost 3 times.

Completely agree. MJ didn't win any titles until he had Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant. No one can win titles by themselves.

 

[SJ76]

Elevation motherfucker. You ain't flyin like MJ

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Lebron is a great player because Lebron is a great player, not because of the conference he plays in. Some of his resume (like being on pace to make his 7th straight finals) is the result of how weak the East is. But as far as him being a great player and the best in the game today, that wouldn't change regardless of conference.

The only difference is that, in the West, he might not be looking at going to his 7th straight finals.

Isn't that what this whole conversation is about? Not a single person is questioning lebrons quality as a player.

His success however, especially his finals appearances, has everything to do with a weakened conference.

 

[flyerhawk]

Not only that, but the big man was all the rage in the 90's. Lebron MAY have been in the Malone, Robinson, Barkley role of being a big, post man that just so happened to have the ability to handle the ball. I don't think he would of been the Lebron that we've come to know now

That's hard to say. None of those big men had anything close to Lebron's handle or outside shot.

 

[SJ76]

Tough call here. But I think this dunk on Ewing is better. Jordan's move was better tho

 

[flyerhawk]

Isn't that what this whole conversation is about? Not a single person is questioning lebrons quality as a player.

His success however, especially his finals appearances, has everything to do with a weakened conference.

You want to portray the Eastern Conference as some sort of D league level conference. It's ridiculous.

The biggest difference between the East and the West is the Spurs.

 

[RobBase]

Bummer. I thought this might be about new hair paint.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

You want to portray the Eastern Conference as some sort of D league level conference. It's ridiculous.

The biggest difference between the East and the West is the Spurs.

And you're making it sound like they're almost equal!

Like I said earlier, take lebron out of the picture and the West wins the finals 4-0 for a long time. Are you going to deny that?

 

[SJ76]

Lebron is a great player, but he had no where near the moves or go to shots that MJ had. Sometimes I forget about all the stupid ball fakes MJ had.