Exploitation at its finest!

[Slaton10]

Damn you, Slaton.
Blame Golrushers's favorite AD for my Mountaineers not getting that type of contract. I don't expect my Mountaineers to make that type of coin to begin with. We don't have the moxie, swag, history, or tradition to get those types of duckets.

That is great about your niece. Sooooo...you don't think that her pay for tuitoring isn't tied into the football atheltic budget somewhere, which is funded by these different contracts? See, from the money she saves on the free ride (all her doing and has the pressure to meet the scholordhip requirements) and getting paid, she can purchase her own Nike gear.noutbof curiosity, ask her if she receives athletic gear or free"stuff" from time to time.

You're right, she does get paid from the athletic budget...but the point is she still gets paid...it's not a student credit..its real money..and I guess I didn't stress my point enough she gets the same identical benefits th players have with their scholarship ...ie (Room and Board)...

Just doesn't seem right...the athlete's can't have campus employment..like a Dorm AD or whatever..even being a tutor...but yet my niece gets a better deal than the players shes paid to get them through school...

Just boggles my mind...280 million dollars...wonder if Joseph didn't bounce back from the knee injury..not only does he not make it as a top 15 pick...he may be have been left to bagging groceries...

18 -22 year old kids...that's all I am sayin'

 

[Anotherwvufan]

While I hate to see anybody get hurt, we all make decisions on a daily basis that affect us for the better or for the worse. There are kids who didn't make it to the collegiate level due to an injury in high school. Injuries can happen anytime. Everybody has a level of risk versus reward.

A majority of the top kids go to the schools who receive the most coverage (Mr. Obvious moment). I can't say that the school is exploiting them. These top kids have set theirselves apart from everybody else and they know it. They are going to take the path that gives them the best chance of getting into the league. If media hype is there for them, then all the better. These "sponsors" jump aboard with the money and I'm sure these kids benefit in some way.

Mac, keep in mind that these top kids have only one way to make it to the NFL. CFB is the farm league for the NFL. Many kids do this for an education, many others look at CFB as their chance to make it to the big time. Schools put these guys on billboards, programs, tickets etc. How many times did you see Pat White or Steve Slaton on an add for the school? Years ago,my Dad purchased tickets just to see Danny Buggs play. These guys bring real money into the school, why should they not receive real compensation?

BTW, I'm not advocating for teams to pay players more (which is not really a bad idea, but is likely to cause financial problems for some departments and an uneven playing field where some teams can afford to pay much more), just the ability to earn money from the use of their names or pictures or do a TV commercial.

 

[mad2mc]

You're right, she does get paid from the athletic budget...but the point is she still gets paid...it's not a student credit..its real money..and I guess I didn't stress my point enough she gets the same identical benefits th players have with their scholarship ...ie (Room and Board)...

Just doesn't seem right...the athlete's can't have campus employment..like a Dorm AD or whatever..even being a tutor...but yet my niece gets a better deal than the players shes paid to get them through school...

Just boggles my mind...280 million dollars...wonder if Joseph didn't bounce back from the knee injury..not only does he not make it as a top 15 pick...he may be have been left to bagging groceries...

18 -22 year old kids...that's all I am sayin'

I agree that some items need changed within the NCAA guidelines. They should be able to work but they get money when needed, not wanted, but needed. Don't we all take that chance in school? Don't do well, may not make the money we all dream of. These guys "major" COULD pay them mucho pesos. Hell, I worked at a blood bank until I could land a decent job in New Jersey which gave me enough money to pay my bills and not much more. I still don't have my mansion and yacht but a house over my head, working from home, and 4 almost out of the house kids (1 at home, 1 at WVU). I guess those 4 are my mansion and yacht. Lol.

 

[mad2mc]

Mac, keep in mind that these top kids have only one way to make it to the NFL. CFB is the farm league for the NFL. Many kids do this for an education, many others look at CFB as their chance to make it to the big time. Schools put these guys on billboards, programs, tickets etc. How many times did you see Pat White or Steve Slaton on an add for the school? Years ago,my Dad purchased tickets just to see Danny Buggs play. These guys bring real money into the school, why should they not receive real compensation?

BTW, I'm not advocating for teams to pay players more (which is not really a bad idea, but is likely to cause financial problems for some departments and an uneven playing field where some teams can afford to pay much more), just the ability to earn money from the use of their names or pictures or do a TV commercial.

Oh,main understand where you're coming from, Another. I just feel these kids who get the hype embrace the hype in college. They got it in high school and know the more they are the "face" of the school, the more exposure they get for the next step in their career. I just hate to see a kid waste an opportunity to educate himself / herself and waste it. We all chase a dream until reality sets in.
These kids brought in real money in high school. When kids like Steve Breaston, Tyrelle Pryor, Justin King, and others played, the stadiums were packed, no matter where the games were played. How did Danny Buggs fair after graduating? He made more real money than what your Dad paid for tickets many times over. I don't think any of these guys are really hurting while being, as Slaton says, exploited while in school.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

These kids brought in real money in high school. When kids like Steve Breaston, Tyrelle Pryor, Justin King, and others played, the stadiums were packed, no matter where the games were played. How did Danny Buggs fair after graduating? He made more real money than what your Dad paid for tickets many times over. I don't think any of these guys are really hurting while being, as Slaton says, exploited while in school.

Those guys are few and far in between. Also note the stars are usually playing QB or RB. The guys in the trenches get little hype or fanfare (ie name our starting lineman last, then name our starting Q RB and WRs.) The lineman contribute just as much, but don't get the stats. Also unlike High School, CFB is a very big business. If you can shell out 5M for a coach and staff, why can't they give some of that to the students. Take 2M of that and the players could have about $23,500 each per year

 

[WVUDAD]

I don't understand DAD...you sound like the Commissioner form the BE when they decided to add football..."Hey Let's add football make those schools divide television evenly, even though we don't have a D-1 football program..ie Providence, Villanova , St John's and Georgetown............. and take that money and.........not spend it !!! DAD there is no assurance that a school would take the funds and improve their programs...IE see, Purdue, Northwestern, Utah, Colorado, Duke, CAL, Washington State.........

I was joking, Slaton......... but let's get back to the real argument. Athletes USED to be allowed to have part time jobs, then the Marshall Reynold's, Jack Maxton's, etc started giving star players "jobs" that paid $100/hour, that time cards were turned in for 30 hrs a week, but the kid never set foot in the door. I really don't care what the school makes, the kids are getting free schooling, and MOST would not even be in school if not for their ability to play ball, so they are already getting an opportunity that most wouldn't. Some on here talk about tightening up academic standards to enhance the schools reputation, yet promote giving scholarships AND pay to kids who will be studying (for the most part) a field where there is little hope of earning a living. The same argument could be made for any business, but just like any other business, the school is the one taking ALL the risk, building facilities, hiring coaches, promoting the sports, the kids train, play and stay in the NCAA's good graces, pretty sweet deal.

 

[mad2mc]

These kids brought in real money in high school. When kids like Steve Breaston, Tyrelle Pryor, Justin King, and others played, the stadiums were packed, no matter where the games were played. How did Danny Buggs fair after graduating? He made more real money than what your Dad paid for tickets many times over. I don't think any of these guys are really hurting while being, as Slaton says, exploited while in school.

Those guys are few and far in between. Also note the stars are usually playing QB or RB. The guys in the trenches get little hype or fanfare (ie name our starting lineman last, then name our starting Q RB and WRs.) The lineman contribute just as much, but don't get the stats. Also unlike High School, CFB is a very big business. If you can shell out 5M for a coach and staff, why can't they give some of that to the students. Take 2M of that and the players could have about $23,500 each per year

Ok, let's say we go with your numbers. For an out of state student the bill is between $33 - 34,000 per year before any financial assistance kicks in. Let's say that the average student gets that knocked down between $6-8K. So now a football player who is already waived $12-16K per year times 4 ($48,000 - $64,000) now gets another $23,500/ year on top of that? All of these kids will be making $71,500 - $87,500 per year.If the kid rides the pine, he should get $23,500. All this for something that they know going to that program is already established (NCAA rules). If you want to take a chance and shoot for one of those NFL rosters, then go for it. If you don't make it, then it's a life lesson. Welcome to the real world. Check this out www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_wv.htm. Hard for me to justify paying a college player based off of what the University makes. God knows that they are making a killing off of me alone. Don't like it but I'm hoping my kid gets ahead of the game and is not down there eating the books, as my Dad would say. If you want them to have the same opportunities as the avg student, I'm for it. I already know that they are compensated in other ways.

 

[mad2mc]

I was joking, Slaton......... but let's get back to the real argument. Athletes USED to be allowed to have part time jobs, then the Marshall Reynold's, Jack Maxton's, etc started giving star players "jobs" that paid $100/hour, that time cards were turned in for 30 hrs a week, but the kid never set foot in the door. I really don't care what the school makes, the kids are getting free schooling, and MOST would not even be in school if not for their ability to play ball, so they are already getting an opportunity that most wouldn't. Some on here talk about tightening up academic standards to enhance the schools reputation, yet promote giving scholarships AND pay to kids who will be studying (for the most part) a field where there is little hope of earning a living. The same argument could be made for any business, but just like any other business, the school is the one taking ALL the risk, building facilities, hiring coaches, promoting the sports, the kids train, play and stay in the NCAA's good graces, pretty sweet deal.

I can agree with some of this, Poppy. I wish that the University would increase their admittance standard but understand how that could be a problem. I was waiting for my son to finish his math placement exam and was talking to another parent from Clarksburg. When our son's came out my son was placed in pre-calculus while the other parent's son said that he would have equated to 4 semesters of math just to get to what was required to start his major. I felt bad for the kid. It's not just in WV and not everybody in WV. Kid seemed to be on the up and up. Education in America needs to be overhauled.

 

[Slaton10]

I agree that some items need changed within the NCAA guidelines. They should be able to work but they get money when needed, not wanted, but needed. Don't we all take that chance in school? Don't do well, may not make the money we all dream of. These guys "major" COULD pay them mucho pesos. Hell, I worked at a blood bank until I could land a decent job in New Jersey which gave me enough money to pay my bills and not much more. I still don't have my mansion and yacht but a house over my head, working from home, and 4 almost out of the house kids (1 at home, 1 at WVU). I guess those 4 are my mansion and yacht. Lol.

THEY ARE!! And don't you forget it!!

 

[Slaton10]

I was joking, Slaton......... but let's get back to the real argument. Athletes USED to be allowed to have part time jobs, then the Marshall Reynold's, Jack Maxton's, etc started giving star players "jobs" that paid $100/hour, that time cards were turned in for 30 hrs a week, but the kid never set foot in the door. I really don't care what the school makes, the kids are getting free schooling, and MOST would not even be in school if not for their ability to play ball, so they are already getting an opportunity that most wouldn't. Some on here talk about tightening up academic standards to enhance the schools reputation, yet promote giving scholarships AND pay to kids who will be studying (for the most part) a field where there is little hope of earning a living. The same argument could be made for any business, but just like any other business, the school is the one taking ALL the risk, building facilities, hiring coaches, promoting the sports, the kids train, play and stay in the NCAA's good graces, pretty sweet deal.

Well DAD you make an excellent point..several actually!..and your examples of being overpaid or paid for not even working is where this idea of stipend comes into the discussion..and can't agree with you more of kids getting pushed into worthless majors just to keep them on the field...I don't think there is an easy answer to any of it...but something has to give...


Wait a minute!!...I could be mistaken, but I think this is the first time we are all having a conversation and not yelling at each other! HOLY COW mark this day down!!

 

[mad2mc]

Ok, let's say we go with your numbers. For an out of state student the bill is between $33 - 34,000 per year before any financial assistance kicks in. Let's say that the average student gets that knocked down between $6-8K. So now a football player who is already waived $12-16K per year times 4 ($48,000 - $64,000) now gets another $23,500/ year on top of that? All of these kids will be making $71,500 - $87,500 per year.If the kid rides the pine, he should get $23,500. All this for something that they know going to that program is already established (NCAA rules). If you want to take a chance and shoot for one of those NFL rosters, then go for it. If you don't make it, then it's a life lesson. Welcome to the real world. Check this out www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_wv.htm. Hard for me to justify paying a college player based off of what the University makes. God knows that they are making a killing off of me alone. Don't like it but I'm hoping my kid gets ahead of the game and is not down there eating the books, as my Dad would say. If you want them to have the same opportunities as the avg student, I'm for it. I already know that they are compensated in other ways.

Not a 100% fair comparison since the $48,000 - $64,000 is not money in pocket but it is money that doesn't have to be repaid. While the average students start off in the hole coming out of college, these kids mostly do not. Should we pay or wipe clean their student loans?

 

[bbwvfan]

Not a 100% fair comparison since the $48,000 - $64,000 is not money in pocket but it is money that doesn't have to be repaid. While the average students start off in the hole coming out of college, these kids mostly do not. Should we pay or wipe clean their student loans?

Prior to players receiving a stipend, many student-athletes had to take student loans to help have some spending money to enjoy their down time on campus. Many football and basketball players leave school with student loan debt.

The commitment for nearly every student athlete to their sport has grown in recent years. Hell... prior to Don Nehlen, WVU did not have a strength and conditioning program. Same for the basketball program prior to Huggy's arrival.

Even the golf coach requires his players to conduct early morning workouts...running the Law School Hill...

Athletes mostly stay in Morgantown year round to participate in off-season workouts.

And, they directly impact the revenue generated for their sport as well as indirectly impacting the attraction of the school for prospective students. There are countless studies showing the growth of applications/class size proportional to success of the football team.

We are talking millions of dollars when looking at a small dip or raise in student population.

 

[mad2mc]

But not all student atheletes generate a revenue stream for the college. All sports training programs have evolved do there is a commitment to the sport you chose to play at said University. We also know that practice time has been cut for at least football. Kids are flocking to the upper level football programs for many reasons- tradition, program, coaches, media attention, etc. I'm not sure how many are saying I'm going to Oregon because they are tied into Nike or UCLA because of Under Armour. Could it be spun into a selling point, sure, but I don't think it is on the top of anybody's list as a criteria to attend that school. High schools have gone in contracts with Coke, Pepsi, and others for the right to advertise on the football and basketball game clocks. Universities will make a penny off of anything as well.
The small dip in the rise in student population is due in the availability of University facilities. You know as well as anybody who has been on campus the last few years of all the construction going on for housing and University facilities (new building for Business, additions to the Evansdale campus buildings, work on the Engineering building, additional dorms and student apartments) so that the University can accommodate 40,000 students in the near future.
As I have said, I have no issues of making the student atheletes obtaining the same "rights" as the average students. I already know the get a free ride and it is up to them to take the fullest advantage of this. I also know that they get preferential treatment when it comes to meals, dorms, class scheduling, etc. That comes with the package and territory. I cannot go with this notion of a pay to play in college. You know what you are in for when you accept that scholarship just like when you say yes to that first job.

 

[bbwvfan]

This is bb math... so my numbers may be off.

In year of great football success... WVU reaches the CFP finals. WVU recognizes a bump in applications, and increases its freshman class size accordingly.

5,000 students enrolled currently. Conservative bump of 5%. That would be 250 additional students.

250 with 49%/51% breakdown of instate/out of state. 123 instate, 127 out of state.
123 students adds roughly $2.2 million. 127 out of state adds roughly $4 million. $6.2 million over 4 years brings $25 million.

Just from a football program's success...

And, that kind of success does not come without a major commitment from a young kid who makes a ton of sacrifice to help his team achieve it.

This kind of money is why programs provide the extra benefits to their student athletes. The program is making an investment in a kid... who in turn... invests his effort to help win games. The big winner... The school... They reap the greatest financial awards.

 

[mad2mc]

While I've seen those studies, I would like to know how many kids made their decision based on a sports team. I know that I didn't or I would have gone to Pitt or Penn State. I do understand your explaination.

There is no doubt that the student-athlete makes a ton of sacrifices and then has a ton of stupid NCAA rules imposed on them. The "boss" always wins.

 

[bbwvfan]

The Flutie Effect: How Athletic Success Boosts College Applications

Georgetown University applications multiplied 45 percent between 1983 and 1986 following a surge of basketball success. Northwestern University applications advanced 21 percent after winning the Big Ten Championship in football.

Chung, whose recent research paper, The Dynamic Advertising Effect of Collegiate Athletics, shows how on-field heroics can benefit schools by increasing both the quantity and the quality of students they can expect to attract.

His findings include:

• When a school rises from mediocre to great on the gridiron, applications increase by 18.7 percent.
• To attain similar effects, a school has to either lower tuition by 3.8 percent or increase the quality of its education by recruiting higher-quality faculty, who are paid 5 percent more than their average peers in the academic labor market.
• Students with lower-than-average SAT scores tended to have a stronger preference for schools known for athletic success, while students with higher SAT scores preferred institutions with greater academic quality. Also, students with lower academic prowess valued the success of intercollegiate athletics for longer periods of time than the high SAT achievers.
• Even students with high SAT scores are significantly affected by athletic success—one of the biggest surprises from the research, Chung says.
• Schools become more academically selective with athletic success.

Why would sports success spark greater admissions interest, even among academically superior students? Although not part of the study, Chung guesses that a school’s fame in athletics increases general awareness of those institutions—brand advertising, if you will. Another reason: sports-heavy American culture. Prospective students might find it appealing to be part of a college’s social whirl around a winning program.

 

[bbwvfan]

Tiny Butler’s NCAA tournament success provided a bounce beyond basketball

INDIANAPOLIS — When Butler University made it to the finals of the NCAA men’s basketball tournament in 2010 — and again in 2011 — it was the smallest school to do so in the history of the modern tournament, prompting swarms of people to Google “Where is Butler?”

The Butler Bulldogs lost both marquee games, but experts estimate that the television exposure and media mentions were worth at least $1 billion to the small, private school here. Butler T-shirt sales skyrocketed, the school Web site had record traffic, and applications for admission increased 40 percent. Suddenly, Butler had more students from out of state than from Indiana — along with a nationally known name.

 

[Bat 20]

Sorry, I really have nothing substantive to add to this topic other than I now realize I am totally out of touch with the reality of what college athletics are today. I guess I’m officially an old geezer, I was at WVU during the Bowden years and things were very, very different back then. Thanks to everyone for posting and bringing me into the 21st century.

 

[bbwvfan]

Things change...

I used to think 8-tracks were way cool!

 

[Bat 20]

Things change...

I used to think 8-tracks were way cool!

Change is inevitable, but not always better: New Coke; Beta VCR; Ben-Gay Aspirin; the Edsel; and the list goes on and on………………..