Defensive line units ranked by Fox Sports

[Across The Field]

Scoring defense isn't everything, especially when the pace of play is so much faster, which it is in the Big 12. Example Northwestern gave up 16 ppg, while OU gave up 20 ppg, but OU's defense was statistically more efficient.

Sure, I get that. But big play ability doesn't mean your offenses are automatically better. When your team relies on that sort of thing, like Baylor, you live and die by it. There's a reason why one of these "awful" B1G offenses was able to outscore the mighty Baylor offense on a neutral field.

 

[Across The Field]

yeah, but the SEC East might have been tied with the B1G as one of the worst offensive conferences in the country. That division was so bad on offense, that the entire division except Tennessee I believe ranked 90th to 125th in scoring and total offense. UF's defensive stats were vastly inflated due to playing in a division where the offenses were downright putrid.

A very average michigan offense proved this. They made Hargreaves looks like a chump.

 

[ericd7633]

Sure, I get that. But big play ability doesn't mean your offenses are automatically better. When your team relies on that sort of thing, like Baylor, you live and die by it. There's a reason why one of these "awful" B1G offenses was able to outscore the mighty Baylor offense on a neutral field.

MSU was actually very good offensively that year(8th in terms of efficiency) but I do agree with the premise, that most of the B1G offenses aren't very good. Comes back to QB play and lack of talent at the skill positions.

 

[Across The Field]

MSU was actually very good offensively that year(8th in terms of efficiency) but I do agree with the premise, that most of the B1G offenses aren't very good. Comes back to QB play and lack of talent at the skill positions.

As compared to what other conferences? 5 QBs were drafted from the B1G this year.

 

[theboardref]

Knew the break in Michigan threads were too good to be true.

 

[Codaxx]

And yards per play can't be skewed? Hell, you dial up 3-4 big plays throughout the course of the game, but then do just alright for the rest of the time, does that mean you "shredded" that defense?

how is that manipulated? If a defense gives up 28 pts on those 4 plays, I doubt we are saying they played great. Texas played a game vs TCU. TCU put up over 40 pts. If I remember correctly, only 1 scoring drive for TCU started in TCU territory. Just looking at the score you would have thought that TCU's offense ran over the Texas defense, but watching the game would have given you a completely different perspective. All stats have their weaknesses, but scoring one of the least informative stats out there, when applying it to a single unit of a team.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

16th in the nation last year against the run in the one-dimensional B1G...

Meh.

texico's DL will be better than meatchickens.

I will say this. What Michigan didn't have last year was depth on the DL. They had very good starters, but injuries piled up. The DL they had to start the year was great, but as they lost multiple starters on the DL and then Ojumudia (sp). It was all downhill. Indiana ran for like 400 yards on us. That is why I told my OSU buddies to bet the house on OSU as UM's front 7 was decimated.

They get Bryan Mone back, they get Glasgow back and have moved Peppers to the Rush LB spot, which should be interesting to see how he is used . They also add Rashan Gary.

 

[Wamu]

I will say this.

Oh no, not again!

 

[ericd7633]

As compared to what other conferences? 5 QBs were drafted from the B1G this year.

Compared to the rest of them. Outside of Ohio State and Michigan State there were a total of TWO offensive skill(WR, RB, TE) players drafted. Sure it was a great year in terms of getting QB's drafted for the B1G, but in 2015 there was 1 drafted, and next year, I'd guess 1 would be drafted. Also still no first round QB's selected since Kerry Collins, I believe, which is startling.

 

[Across The Field]

how is that manipulated? If a defense gives up 28 pts on those 4 plays, I doubt we are saying they played great. Texas played a game vs TCU. TCU put up over 40 pts. If I remember correctly, only 1 scoring drive for TCU started in TCU territory. Just looking at the score you would have thought that TCU's offense ran over the Texas defense, but watching the game would have given you a completely different perspective. All stats have their weaknesses, but scoring one of the least informative stats out there, when applying it to a single unit of a team.

We're not talking about points, we're talking about plays. I'm not talking about any one game specifically, I'm saying in general the whole yards per play statistic is meaningless in the grand scheme when you don't get the points. Using that as the main measure of how much an offense "shredded" a defense is silly because it can be manipulated by 3-4 plays out of several dozen over the course of a game.

 

[Across The Field]

Compared to the rest of them. Outside of Ohio State and Michigan State there were a total of TWO offensive skill(WR, RB, TE) players drafted. Sure it was a great year in terms of getting QB's drafted for the B1G, but in 2015 there was 1 drafted, and next year, I'd guess 1 would be drafted. Also still no first round QB's selected since Kerry Collins, I believe, which is startling.

This means literally nothing. If you asked teams in the NFL if they could take any active QBs over Drew Brees, Tom Brady or Russell Wilson, I doubt you'll hear a ton of other names come up. That just means NFL scouts don't know how to scout B1G QBs I guess, while overrating others.

The B1G has never been a big time passing offense conference, but it doesn't mean they're bad offenses.

Also, if you take out FSU and Clemson, what ACC schools are pumping out tons of skill position players? Take out Alabama and LSU/UGA most years and who's putting out tons of skill position guys in the SEC? Hell you can do this for most conferences. When you take out two of the best offenses in the conference you're not left with a ton of skill position guys coming out of the woodwork.

 

[Codaxx]

We're not talking about points, we're talking about plays. I'm not talking about any one game specifically, I'm saying in general the whole yards per play statistic is meaningless in the grand scheme when you don't get the points. Using that as the main measure of how much an offense "shredded" a defense is silly because it can be manipulated by 3-4 plays out of several dozen over the course of a game.

That makes no sense. By your example of 4 explosive plays out of several dozen plays, the defense is giving up a long touchdown every 6 plays (24/4). I would say that is bad. That is not manipulating anything. Claiming a special teams TD is the direct responsibility of a defense is manipulating

 

[ericd7633]

This means literally nothing. If you asked teams in the NFL if they could take any active QBs over Drew Brees, Tom Brady or Russell Wilson, I doubt you'll hear a ton of other names come up. That just means NFL scouts don't know how to scout B1G QBs I guess, while overrating others.

The B1G has never been a big time passing offense conference, but it doesn't mean they're bad offenses.

And those three QB's played a combined TWO seasons this century in the B1G. That's kind of my point. The QB play, I wouldn't say has been bad because Troy Smith was really good, as was Russell in his rent a season, but no question the conference has lacked talent at that position this century.

As far as the NFL scouts evaluating the B1G QB's, I'd say they've been pretty spot on. In three years when Brady and Brees retire, the conference will only have Wilson who was a rent a player. Maybe Cousins will turn into something?

 

[Across The Field]

That is not true. 4 long scoring yards are not manipulated. That makes no sense. By your example of 4 explosive plays out of several dozen plays, the defense is giving up a long touchdown every 6 plays (24/4). I would say that is bad.

Ok, here's an example. A team racks up 500 yards of total offenses on 71 plays, which is a little over 7 yards per play. Let's say they had 3 huge plays of 85 yards, two went for TDs and one went for a big gain and a FG. Technically, in your definition, the defense got "shredded", even though outside of these 3 big plays, they only allowed about 3.6 yards per play.

This is what I mean. Just like any other metric, this one can also be skewed to look worse than what it is. Big plays can happen against any defense. If my team's defense played like this in every game and gave up 17 points, I'd be fine with it because we'd be winning most, if not all, of our games.

 

[RAZORBACKG]

Michigan boasts the best defensive front in the land

1. Michigan
2. Alabama
3. Utah
4. Mizzou
5. Texas A&M
6. FSU
7. LSU
8. Clemson
9. Ole Miss
T10. OSU
T10. Houston

I think my Hogs are gonna surprise some folks this year with their D line! List looks solid to me!

 

[Across The Field]

And those three QB's played a combined TWO seasons this century in the B1G. That's kind of my point. The QB play, I wouldn't say has been bad because Troy Smith was really good, as was Russell in his rent a season, but no question the conference has lacked talent at that position this century.

As far as the NFL scouts evaluating the B1G QB's, I'd say they've been pretty spot on. In three years when Brady and Brees retire, the conference will only have Wilson who was a rent a player. Maybe Cousins will turn into something?

So the year 2000 is somehow the meaning of everything?

Cousins looked damn good last year, and is likely going to get a huge payday. There are 4 really terrific QBs in the NFL right now. You're just assuming every other B1G QB in the NFL and every other QB currently in the B1G will just automatically suck, even though the conference has brought in plenty of talent at the position from a recruiting standpoint.

Why are you wasting your time here when you can see several years into the future and know exactly what will happen without a shadow of a doubt? You should be out betting or playing the lottery.

 

[Codaxx]

Ok, here's an example. A team racks up 500 yards of total offenses on 71 plays, which is a little over 7 yards per play. Let's say they had 3 huge plays of 85 yards, two went for TDs and one went for a big gain and a FG. Technically, in your definition, the defense got "shredded", even though outside of these 3 big plays, they only allowed about 3.6 yards per play.

This is what I mean. Just like any other metric, this one can also be skewed to look worse than what it is. Big plays can happen against any defense. If my team's defense played like this in every game and gave up 17 points, I'd be fine with it because we'd be winning most, if not all, of our games.

So the offense scores on 3 big plays all 85 yards. The other plays they average 3.6 per, so clearly they scored more than 17 points. It would be hard to average 3.6 yards per play on 69 plays and not score again. You are digging really hard, not to mention 3 plays of 85 yards (I liked that), perhaps we should use 3 plays of 98 yards that score 17 next time.

 

[ericd7633]

So the year 2000 is somehow the meaning of everything?

Cousins looked damn good last year, and is likely going to get a huge payday. There are 4 really terrific QBs in the NFL right now. You're just assuming every other B1G QB in the NFL and every other QB currently in the B1G will just automatically suck, even though the conference has brought in plenty of talent at the position from a recruiting standpoint.

Why are you wasting your time here when you can see several years into the future and know exactly what will happen without a shadow of a doubt? You should be out betting or playing the lottery.

I am discussing recently, even going back to 2000 is fucking dumb, but you brought up Brees and Brady, not me. And I'm not assuming anything, outside of Russell, who was a rent a player, nobody in the B1G has been a successful NFL QB, or even had the presumed talent to be drafted in the first round(we'll see about Cousins, who granted was good last year, but the three years prior when given the opportunity was pretty bad).

Which brings me back to my original point. Outside of Ohio State and MSU, the B1G lacks in QB play and at the skill positions. Which is why, outside of Ohio State and MSU, the B1G doesn't have good offenses.

 

[Across The Field]

So the offense scores on 3 big plays all 85 yards. The other plays they average 3.6 per, so clearly they scored more than 17 points. It would be hard to average 3.6 yards per play on 69 plays and not score again. You are digging really hard, not to mention 3 plays of 85 yards (I liked that), perhaps we should use 3 plays of 98 yards that score 17 next time.

You can use whatever you want. This was me trying to put this in the simplest context so you can understand. Fact is, at the end of the day, they held Baylor to well below their season average in points, yet it was simply Michigan State's defense getting shredded that we should only think of because of yards per play, which as I've demonstrated can very easily be manipulated.

 

[Across The Field]

I am discussing recently, even going back to 2000 is fucking dumb, but you brought up Brees and Brady, not me. And I'm not assuming anything, outside of Russell, who was a rent a player, nobody in the B1G has been a successful NFL QB, or even had the presumed talent to be drafted in the first round(we'll see about Cousins, who granted was good last year, but the three years prior when given the opportunity was pretty bad).

Which brings me back to my original point. Outside of Ohio State and MSU, the B1G lacks in QB play and at the skill positions. Which is why, outside of Ohio State and MSU, the B1G doesn't have good offenses.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. FWIW, that whole "outside of MSU and OSU, the B1G only put..." argument about the draft is absurd. Do the same thing with every other conference for the 4 main skill positions and tell me how that works out for you.