Clemente vs Kaline

[steveringo]

The greatest Tiger and the greatest Pirate did play at the same time, but they weren't either of these two. I don't care how much you ding them for playing in a weaker league, Cobb and Wagner are still the answers to those questions.

+1

Part of the reason I said "maybe"... I do think something could be said about the competition back then - but I'm sure most would agree with your assessment.

And maybe is 20 years people will add Cabrera and McCutchen...




This is why we watch baseball.

 

[BigDDude]

+1

Part of the reason I said "maybe"... I do think something could be said about the competition back then - but I'm sure most would agree with your assessment.

And maybe is 20 years people will add Cabrera and McCutchen...




This is why we watch baseball.

If there is one thing I love about posting on a message board is the quantifying statement.....

And, from the poster & post you are responding to, I picked up on the maybe right away....

 

[navamind]

Clemente.

They were both excellent players I wish I could have been around for.

 

[BigDDude]

Clemente.

They were both excellent players I wish I could have been around for.

If Puig can ever reign in his wild ways, and finds a ton of maturity, then you will have a good idea about Clemete's play.

Big IF, I know......

 

[navamind]

If Puig can ever reign in his wild ways, and finds a ton of maturity, then you will have a good idea about Clemete's play.

Big IF, I know......

we'll see. Even then, Puig was still a lot of fun to watch in 2013.

 

[evolver115]

Good debate and a darn tough question. One thing I will say about Clemente is that in the biggest games he played in, he was pretty damn clutch. In the '71 series against the O's he carried the Pirate offense by hitting over .400.

Clemente's level of respect for people was just incredible. Every time Blass talks about Clemente on the pirates radio broadcasts, he always seems to say the same thing that just being around Clemente made him want to be a better person. Willie Stargell said a lot of the same things about him, too. In the time that past after Clemente died, Pops became a very important leader for the pirates, and later would lead them back to another title in '79, and he credited a lot of that leadership quality stuff to what Clemente instilled in him while they were teammates.

Probably isn't a right or wrong answer to this question. Both Kaline and Clemente are legends.

 

[dougplayer]

I thought RC was a little bit of a ham. just my opinion.
He had nagging little injurys he moaned about at the end of his career. some said he made to much of them.
still it was close between them.
1 point made . Kaline never carried the Tigers. But RC did with the Pirates.
dam. I had a hugh bag of baseball cards from 70,71,71,73,74.
gave them away. had many of the RC cards and all of the NL stars.. Pirates and Reds.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Good debate and a darn tough question. One thing I will say about Clemente is that in the biggest games he played in, he was pretty damn clutch. In the '71 series against the O's he carried the Pirate offense by hitting over .400.

Clemente's level of respect for people was just incredible. Every time Blass talks about Clemente on the pirates radio broadcasts, he always seems to say the same thing that just being around Clemente made him want to be a better person. Willie Stargell said a lot of the same things about him, too. In the time that past after Clemente died, Pops became a very important leader for the pirates, and later would lead them back to another title in '79, and he credited a lot of that leadership quality stuff to what Clemente instilled in him while they were teammates.

Probably isn't a right or wrong answer to this question. Both Kaline and Clemente are legends.

What greater "skill" could one teamate pass onto another I say.


Humility, Generosity and Kindness for his fellow mankind killed Roberto in the end. To leave this characteristic out of the comparision equation would be a dis-service to Mr. Clemente's life as a ballplayer and a complete human being who left EVERYTHING out on life's field of play.

 

[StanMarsh51]

What greater "skill" could one teamate pass onto another I say.


Humility, Generosity and Kindness for his fellow mankind killed Roberto in the end. To leave this characteristic out of the comparision equation would be a dis-service to Mr. Clemente's life as a ballplayer and a complete human being who left EVERYTHING out on life's field of play.

So how many points does that add to his batting average or OPS?

I mean, Ty Cobb was hated by many, but should we hold that against him if we were to compare his career to someone else?

It's nice that he was a great guy/humanitarian, but it shouldn't hold any weight in a player comparison.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

So how many points does that add to his batting average or OPS?

I mean, Ty Cobb was hated by many, but should we hold that against him if we were to compare his career to someone else?

It's nice that he was a great guy/humanitarian, but it shouldn't hold any weight in a player comparison.

IF I was a GM drafting ballplayers I would place a degree of value/weight on ANY non-tangible that would help my organization win in any way, on and off the field.

Perhaps politicians should read more about baseball history than their daily financial muses, perhaps for example, when serving the masses over a small constituency...

 

[StanMarsh51]

IF I was a GM drafting ballplayers I would place a degree of value/weight on ANY non-tangible that would help my organization win in any way, on and off the field.

Perhaps politicians should read more about baseball history than their daily financial muses, perhaps for example, when serving the masses over a small constituency...

And how is any of this relevant in determining who was the better player?

Do you take into account David Ortiz' smile and personality and leadership if you were to compare him to Frank Thomas or Edgar Martinez in a best DH debate? Come on, now...

Baseball is much more an individualized sport than say, basketball or football. The Yankees of the late 1970s hated each other, but that didn't stop them from winning just as an example. Chemistry/leadership/intangibles in baseball is overrated.

 

[Wazmankg]

Good debate and a darn tough question. One thing I will say about Clemente is that in the biggest games he played in, he was pretty damn clutch. In the '71 series against the O's he carried the Pirate offense by hitting over .400.

Clemente's level of respect for people was just incredible. Every time Blass talks about Clemente on the pirates radio broadcasts, he always seems to say the same thing that just being around Clemente made him want to be a better person. Willie Stargell said a lot of the same things about him, too. In the time that past after Clemente died, Pops became a very important leader for the pirates, and later would lead them back to another title in '79, and he credited a lot of that leadership quality stuff to what Clemente instilled in him while they were teammates.

Probably isn't a right or wrong answer to this question. Both Kaline and Clemente are legends.

Post season

Al Kaline(2 series) .333/.373/.563/.935
Clemente(5 series) .318/.354/.449/.803

Just throwing it out there.

 

[Bulldog]

in our morbid sense of humor, we decided that Kaline could have been the third best right fielder of all time if he had just done a humanitarian plane flight.

Honestly, that's the only difference between them.

Dying as he did gave Clemente worldwide recognition and his career was more thoroughly scrutinized and name more recognizable. Saw both play and they were pretty much the same player. Cemente had more speed but Kaline more power.

 

[The Derski]

Someone should add a poll to this thread so we can vote.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Honestly, that's the only difference between them.

Dying as he did gave Clemente worldwide recognition and his career was more thoroughly scrutinized and name more recognizable. Saw both play and they were pretty much the same player. Cemente had more speed but Kaline more power.

Jep...

 

[obxyankeefan]

Someone should add a poll to this thread so we can vote.

I wanted to, but I don't know how to on this site. If anyone can go back and add that or start a new thread with one have at it.

 

[Silas]

I watched them both play. I give the edge to Clemente. He brought a little more to the table.

 

[jalopy]

I watched them both play. I give the edge to Clemente. He brought a little more to the table.

I don't get that. Clemente is hailed as the faster player, but Kaline stole a lot more bases. Kaline had more power and better plate discipline. Clemente was the better outfielder but Kaline (and his 10 GG's) was no slouch. I think a lot of the perception is the different career arcs the two had. Kaline's first 10 years were vastly superior to his 2nd 10 years while Clemente continued to get better throughout his career. Clemente's flair and passion are often cited as assets but what does that really mean?