Bomani Jones

[MTP]

Why can't we say, "both QBs are bad. Neither has potential. One of them has a fat roster bonus that kicks in if he's injured during play, so he's designated as inactive as much as possible to prevent that bonus."

Now Gruden may be sticking up for Cousins, because Cousins presents the best chance for the Redskins to win. Instead of having to teach a young player the mechanics and how-to's of quarterbacking, Gruden chooses to live with a mediocre talent that is hit-or-miss from week-to-week. I deem that to be lazy, but not racist.

As far as not being as critical of Cousins, that's the coach doing what he can to not compromise what little Cousins likely has at this point, just 6 games into the season.

 

[Sharkinva]

Why can't we say, "both QBs are bad. Neither has potential. One of them has a fat roster bonus that kicks in if he's injured during play, so he's designated as inactive as much as possible to prevent that bonus."

Now Gruden may be sticking up for Cousins, because Cousins presents the best chance for the Redskins to win. Instead of having to teach a young player the mechanics and how-to's of quarterbacking, Gruden chooses to live with a mediocre talent that is hit-or-miss from week-to-week. I deem that to be lazy, but not racist.

As far as not being as critical of Cousins, that's the coach doing what he can to not compromise what little Cousins likely has at this point, just 6 games into the season.

MTP.. .I would agree if you had said neither has the potential to become a franchise QB. But then again there are only around 7 of those in the league at an given time. BUt I disagree to say neither has any potential.

One if put in the right system, and if he agrees to run that system, could be very successful provided he can actually stay relatively healthy while doing it.

The other has potential to become a solid, not great but solid QB if given the time to continue to develop and if the team around him and the COACHES can manage to help him out.


But I dont think either will manage to become what both the owner and fan base in DC actually want. But reality is, you dont get to the NFL level if you have zero potential.

 

[Stymietee]

Why can't we say, "both QBs are bad. Neither has potential. One of them has a fat roster bonus that kicks in if he's injured during play, so he's designated as inactive as much as possible to prevent that bonus."

Now Gruden may be sticking up for Cousins, because Cousins presents the best chance for the Redskins to win. Instead of having to teach a young player the mechanics and how-to's of quarterbacking, Gruden chooses to live with a mediocre talent that is hit-or-miss from week-to-week. I deem that to be lazy, but not racist.

As far as not being as critical of Cousins, that's the coach doing what he can to not compromise what little Cousins likely has at this point, just 6 games into the season.

Let me ask you this MTP....... You are clearly a follower of the Packers and hopefully of their attempts to prepare QB's through M. McCarthy's QB school. What's your stance on having QB schools vs. Trial by fire methods?

 

[Sharkinva]

Let me ask you this MTP....... You are clearly a follower of the Packers and hopefully of their attempts to prepare QB's through M. McCarthy's QB school. What's your stance on having QB schools vs. Trial by fire methods?

Sty are you still hanging your hat as it were on the LONE example of a QB school out of the last 20 years of the NFL?? Yes you are right, when a team HAS a franchise QB, they can afford to draft a replacement to groom for 3-4 years to eventually take over. But name me one other example of a QB school in the last 20 years aside from Green Bay?? If thats the only way we will ever get even a decent QB in DC... we will both go to our graves wishing the Redskins didnt still suck.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty are you still hanging your hat as it were on the LONE example of a QB school out of the last 20 years of the NFL?? Yes you are right, when a team HAS a franchise QB, they can afford to draft a replacement to groom for 3-4 years to eventually take over. But name me one other example of a QB school in the last 20 years aside from Green Bay?? If thats the only way we will ever get even a decent QB in DC... we will both go to our graves wishing the Redskins didnt still suck.

Your question is irrelevant based on its premise that nothing has been done in the past excepting the Green Bay model. My position is forward looking and was first suggested when this team despite your forward looking admonitions selected to pay the cost to get two guys in the same draft.

To be clear 20 years ago dial up was the method of choice to get on the internet, today there's something else and tomorrow there'll be something beyond that. Point is, there is a changing method of producing and delivering young men into the NFL QB ranks at the University level. Conversly, the NFL must adapt or find new venues from which they get these guys. Sure the trial by fire method has been the usual manner but I honesly believe that M. McCarthy has been way way ahead of the curve in this regard.

The current excuse is who will play while the rookie learns, that too is a specious argument as every team in the league currently has at least two guys available for that duty. Again, that train of thought does not take into account the benefits that come with a prep school.

 

[Sharkinva]

Your question is irrelevant based on its premise that nothing has been done in the past excepting the Green Bay model. My position is forward looking and was first suggested when this team despite your forward looking admonitions selected to pay the cost to get two guys in the same draft.

To be clear 20 years ago dial up was the method of choice to get on the internet, today there's something else and tomorrow there'll be something beyond that. Point is, there is a changing method of producing and delivering young men into the NFL QB ranks at the University level. Conversly, the NFL must adapt or find new venues from which they get these guys. Sure the trial by fire method has been the usual manner but I honesly believe that M. McCarthy has been way way ahead of the curve in this regard.

The current excuse is who will play while the rookie learns, that too is a specious argument as every team in the league currently has at least two guys available for that duty. Again, that train of thought does not take into account the benefits that come with a prep school.

Again dude, I respect your conviction on this. But you choose to ignore the reality that what worked 20 years ago, or in rare instances of the perfect situation is NOT likely to become the norm. The ONLY reason McCarthy had the TIME to work with Rogers is because he had the luxury of Favre as a starter and the Packers were winning games. NO team is going to expend a high draft pick on a QB and SIT him for his entire rookie deal while the team is playing .500 or worse ball. I agree every team has at least two QBs. But seeing as how the average career in the NFL is 4 years, you cant really suggest a team sacrifice an entire roster cycle to play QB school with a high round pick. And your premise also assumes that even with 4 years of sit and learn, some of these guys who have flamed out might have actually become good QBs. IF the current system proves any thing, its that when it comes to playing QB.. .some guys have it... many more simply dont regardless of how much time and how many resources you dump into them.

 

[skinsdad62]

i dont know where to begin with this so i will say this . if KC continues on this track , you will see colt mccoy . and if that happens then doesnt the race BS go out the window ?

wasnt KC benched for non performance last season ? where was the race shit then ? and when colt replaced him who came in ? Rg3 who kept the job until he lost it do to no performance

truth be told Rg3 should have been benched in his second year and he was at the end

Rg3 isnt playing because he cant function as a pro pocket passer and the adhd fan base and reporters who cover the damn game forget that RG3 said he wasnt running the offense HE COULD run because he wanted to be a pocket passer

i have never seen Rg3 slide a protection like KC does routinely we all have seen the next tavaris jackson qb and he has failed

he has failed because of HIS GODDAM ACTIONS not the color of his skin and i get sick and tired of people crying race instead of holding the man accountable for his GODAMM actions

IF Rg3 could do the things KC could or better and he sat anyway then you have a possible race issue

Rg3 got in grudens dog house when he threw his teamates and OC under the bus for HIS failures KC hasnt thrown his teamates under a bus

i like bomani jones . i think he is wrong in his assessment here

 

[Breed]

Read Jones' piece and as a Skins fan who's a black man. I don't see any prejudice, bigotry, prejudice or any other nefarious motives, either deliberately or accidentally, being employed. The reason imo for what is or appears to be handling KC with kid gloves. Is because if it doesn't click with him far as becoming a legitimate NFL QB. We have no QB on the present that we can turn to that is one. If that turns out to be the case. I won't necessarily call for Gruden to be fired, but if he is. I'm not shedding any tears over it either. That's a Scotty Mac decision and I'll roll however he decides. Howevah Gruden came here under the premise that he'd work with and fix Griffin. Gruden's fault, Griff's fault, nobody's fault, it don't matter, Gruden failed at that. Now, at least imo, he's failing with Cousins as well, but he still has the rope left concerning Cousins. The question is, does he end up hanging himself with it? If he does or if he doesn't, he does deserve to do it his way. And if that's coddling or being easy with Cousins. So be it.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

MTP.. .I would agree if you had said neither has the potential to become a franchise QB. But then again there are only around 7 of those in the league at an given time. BUt I disagree to say neither has any potential.

One if put in the right system, and if he agrees to run that system, could be very successful provided he can actually stay relatively healthy while doing it.

The other has potential to become a solid, not great but solid QB if given the time to continue to develop and if the team around him and the COACHES can manage to help him out.


But I dont think either will manage to become what both the owner and fan base in DC actually want. But reality is, you dont get to the NFL level if you have zero potential.

Very well put. I also believe that this is the basic reason why you will see a new set of QBs in DC next season barring some major turnaround at the QB position for the remainder of this season (by Cousins, RG3 or even McCoy). RG3 perhaps is better off on another team & might be humbled by the move & behave differently. Cousins I just think has a ceiling that really will never allow him to be all that good (heck - maybe he is solid future NFL coaching material).

Sometimes players are not a good fit for certain teams for any number of reasons but can do well elsewhere. This may be one of those situations & the Redskins may be better off cutting their losses if none of the current QBs shows much this season.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Your question is irrelevant based on its premise that nothing has been done in the past excepting the Green Bay model. My position is forward looking and was first suggested when this team despite your forward looking admonitions selected to pay the cost to get two guys in the same draft.

To be clear 20 years ago dial up was the method of choice to get on the internet, today there's something else and tomorrow there'll be something beyond that. Point is, there is a changing method of producing and delivering young men into the NFL QB ranks at the University level. Conversly, the NFL must adapt or find new venues from which they get these guys. Sure the trial by fire method has been the usual manner but I honesly believe that M. McCarthy has been way way ahead of the curve in this regard.

The current excuse is who will play while the rookie learns, that too is a specious argument as every team in the league currently has at least two guys available for that duty. Again, that train of thought does not take into account the benefits that come with a prep school.

Sty - Even if your suggestion might work I see no way that any other NFL team will implement this anytime in the near future. The overriding reason why this won't happen is $$. Drafting a high pick (& by default a high profile pick) is a major investment for a team & in today's NFL teams are not patient to the point of waiting 2-3 years for a QB to develop. Call it right or wrong, but it is reality. The fanbase would also go nuts if an elite QB sat for 2 years & this would also affect the bottom line.

Beyond some of the things already stated the Packers situation is unique since they don't have an actual owner. This is the complete opposite of a situation like with Snyder and the Redskins. Sure Snyder has recently stayed out of personnel decisions & I believe that will remain the case for at least a few years. However - that doesn't mean that he would be on board with say sitting a top 5 pick for a few years. Again - this is not necessarily about whether your suggestion is a good one. Rather - it is about the reality of anytime implementing this strategy in the current era.

As a example of the reality of this situation remember the Jags were adamant in stating that Bortles would sit his entire rookie year. Sure enough - he was the starter by the 4th game of his rookie season.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty - Even if your suggestion might work I see no way that any other NFL team will implement this anytime in the near future. The overriding reason why this won't happen is $$. Drafting a high pick (& by default a high profile pick) is a major investment for a team & in today's NFL teams are not patient to the point of waiting 2-3 years for a QB to develop. Call it right or wrong, but it is reality. The fanbase would also go nuts if an elite QB sat for 2 years & this would also affect the bottom line.

Beyond some of the things already stated the Packers situation is unique since they don't have an actual owner. This is the complete opposite of a situation like with Snyder and the Redskins. Sure Snyder has recently stayed out of personnel decisions & I believe that will remain the case for at least a few years. However - that doesn't mean that he would be on board with say sitting a top 5 pick for a few years. Again - this is not necessarily about whether your suggestion is a good one. Rather - it is about the reality of anytime implementing this strategy in the current era.

As a example of the reality of this situation remember the Jags were adamant in stating that Bortles would sit his entire rookie year. Sure enough - he was the starter by the 4th game of his rookie season.

Interesting take SoCal, so let me ask the obvious question here......While no one disagrees with your huge investment statement, what would be in your opinion the best way to maximize return on that investment, the current trial by fire or taking a bit of time to correct easily correctable flaws in the players game?

 

[Stymietee]

Found this very interesting.

Reads Listens Views 10/23/2015

 

[j_y19]

Interesting take SoCal, so let me ask the obvious question here......While no one disagrees with your huge investment statement, what would be in your opinion the best way to maximize return on that investment, the current trial by fire or taking a bit of time to correct easily correctable flaws in the players game?

What flaws are easily correctable? His ego? His stubborn nature? His propensity for injury? His lack of sense or feel in the pocket? If Robert's failures were just about learning to read defenses or how to take a 3,5, and 7 step drop, he has had plenty of time to learn that. Unfortunately Robert's real flaws are less about the physical and more about his personality and mental make up.

 

[Stymietee]

What flaws are easily correctable? His ego? His stubborn nature? His propensity for injury? His lack of sense or feel in the pocket? If Robert's failures were just about learning to read defenses or how to take a 3,5, and 7 step drop, he has had plenty of time to learn that. Unfortunately Robert's real flaws are less about the physical and more about his personality and mental make up.

We are not talking about Griffin, the question pertains to the huge Investments that teams in general put into these young guys coming in and while it might be convenient to narrow the question to Griffin going that route serves no purpose. The question stands as written.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Interesting take SoCal, so let me ask the obvious question here......While no one disagrees with your huge investment statement, what would be in your opinion the best way to maximize return on that investment, the current trial by fire or taking a bit of time to correct easily correctable flaws in the players game?

I would be fine say for a 1 yr period where a QB taken w/ a high pick sits on the bench behind a vet. Going beyond 1 yr would be problematic. I also believe that teams need to adapt & stop simply looking for pure pocket passers. The QB of the future will be somewhat of a hybrid since it is just too tough to get all of these QBs to start from scratch.

 

[j_y19]

We are not talking about Griffin, the question pertains to the huge Investments that teams in general put into these young guys coming in and while it might be convenient to narrow the question to Griffin going that route serves no purpose. The question stands as written.

Oh, so we are now talking theory? Theory always looks great on paper, but rarely holds up in the real world. Unfortunately, that's where we live. In theory, you are absolutely right. In practice, it's not realistic.

 

[Sportster 72]

Would all the folks on this forum that were in favor of Grossman being the starting QB while Griffin went to QB school please raise their hand.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Would all the folks on this forum that were in favor of Grossman being the starting QB while Griffin went to QB school please raise their hand.

Outstanding pt. For 95%+ of the teams in this situation you are going to get some stiff like Grossman or at best someone like McCown as your temporary QB while the younger QB is given time to develop. The fanbase will be outraged & the owner & GM may throw a fit. The GB situation with Favre and Rodgers is a once every 25/30 year situation.

I remember prior to the 2012 season (on the ESPN bd I believe) asking if RG3 should perhaps sit a GAME or two at the beginning of the season & people responded as if I was nuts.

 

[Stymietee]

Oh, so we are now talking theory? Theory always looks great on paper, but rarely holds up in the real world. Unfortunately, that's where we live. In theory, you are absolutely right. In practice, it's not realistic.

No, we're looking forward as more and more QB's are coming out of offenses in school that do not prepare them for the NFL and what's the best way to handle them. Not theory real life and in real life there are many methods attempted. Opinions are just that, if you care not to offer your own, that's ok, I understand.

 

[Stymietee]

Outstanding pt. For 95%+ of the teams in this situation you are going to get some stiff like Grossman or at best someone like McCown as your temporary QB while the younger QB is given time to develop. The fanbase will be outraged & the owner & GM may throw a fit. The GB situation with Favre and Rodgers is a once every 25/30 year situation.

I remember prior to the 2012 season (on the ESPN bd I believe) asking if RG3 should perhaps sit a GAME or two at the beginning of the season & people responded as if I was nuts.

Not so fast, every team in the league right now could and some already do have a younster in waiting. I'm pretty sure that many of them don't currently have Grossman types at the helm. That's just foolishness to believe that the young backup is just minding his time and carrying a clipboard until the time comes for him to get in the game in order to better learn his craft. Smart teams are correcting his mechanics and making sure that his ability to read defenses are on point. If he fails it won't be because of those things. Of course some here want to revert back to Griffin and the most dysfunctional organization in ball that he was drafted into. When the nuts are running the show, you get sensitive to the howls from the peanut gallery.