Bomani Jones

[Caliskinsfan]

So I've hesitated to start a thread on this article because it addresses the possibility of race as an issue with how Kirk and Robert have been treated and that topic can easily derail into insults as well as become quite heated, quickly.

I hope we can all remain respectful with our thoughts, whatever they might be.

How ESPN’s Bomani Jones became the world’s biggest Kirk Cousins skeptic

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I mostly agree with Conners take on this and it pretty much sums up my thinking.

One note...He references that Jay and Robert had some 'arguments' that were recounted by Ryan Clark which I don't remember being labeled that way at the time.

 

[Edonidd]

I haven't paid much attention to Cousins in the pro's at all, certainly not enough to have an opinion on something like this. What I do know is that when he came to Michigan State he was a pre-med major, and was very open about the fact he was going g to use his free education to become a doctor. He's a very smart guy. He only changed majors when people convinced him that he had a real shot to play in the NFL, but not if he devoted the time it would require to get into med school. To the media during his sophomore year the coaches told the media it was going to be an open competition for starting QB job, but everyone in the program understood that Cousins was going to be the back-up and the other kid would start. The players still selected Cousins as a sophomore and as an expected backup to be their team captain. He was also selected unanimously by every player on the team as a captain the next 2 years. Once he dropped the idea of being a doctor, everyone involved with the program pretty much expected/still expects him to become a coach some day. He supposedly has a great understanding of football, not just the plays themselves, but a deeper understanding of the how and why behind the plays. And he's obviously a great leader. Just from one speech at a media day event for their conference Dantonio had other coaches come up and tell him how lucky he was to have such a great leader and such a great person on the team

So knowing all of that, it doesn't surprise me that a head coach would love him as his QB, and yeah maybe even give him preferential treatment. Not because he's white, but because he's apparently something g truly special as a person.

But Bomani (The Ladies Man) is right too. He really doesn't have any potential to ever be anything special. Purely on physical talents, not including brains or personality Cousins is probably in the bottom 10% of all QB's in the league. Not just starters, all QB's.

But that's just what I knew about him from college. Maybe everything has changed.

 

[Stymietee]

How does one defend the indefensible? While reading the article, I took note of the many times that Mr. Jones responses perfectly reflected those of a few of us here. While he took to task others who would be more than fair to one guy and not equally fair to the other.

I have been extremely consistent in my assessment of KC on this site, he is, to be fair, a decent backup QB, no more and no less. Interestingly enough, as consistently as my thoughts on him are posted, there comes equally consistent counters of, "he needs more time to develop," "experience will correct his flaws," "he's better than the other guy," or personal favorites, anything that faults the team or teammates when it's time to look at what he's done, or should be doing. This was addressed in the piece and reflect my feeling on those types of responses exactly.

As for the underlying race question, much care has to be employed here mainly because overt racism is not what it once was and it's current iterations can not be easily discerned. What the piece points out is the practicality of not being blind to it.

If you have not read the piece, I highly recommend it. A bit of caution though, at some point during your reading of it you may very well recognize positions that you've taken and how they aren't just talking points.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Interjecting race when it does not belong is such an irresponsible thing to do. People turned on Griffin because he sucked, he broke our hearts by costing us so much and then failing which set us back years, and finally by acting like a prima donna. He is an asshole, being black has nothing to do with it. And he has given us a ton of reasons to root for the other guy.

The fans embraced Kirk because he was the complete opposite of what I said about Griffin. He also represented our final shot at finding that elusive QB. It's really not that complicated.

 

[Stymietee]

Interjecting race when it does not belong is such an irresponsible thing to do. People turned on Griffin because he sucked, he broke our hearts by costing us so much and then failing which set us back years, and finally by acting like a prima donna. He is an asshole, being black has nothing to do with it.

I knew that there would be responses like this. Please read the article, it is not one about race, but ingrained unfairness that almost anyone will recognize. Get back to me after, I would love to get your feedback, thanks!

 

[j_y19]

Why is it unfair? Jones glosses over or omits a huge chunk of Griffin's actions that cause many to sour on him. I'm not going to rehash it here because we've discussed it to death. But Griffin is completely responsible for losing the support of the majority of us due to his prima Donna actions. I was a huge fan of Griffin. Then the attitude and demands started to come out. That's when I first saw a side I didn't like. Then the poor play, wether the result of injury or not, because he demanded to play in a scheme he wasn't ready for. He lost more support from me. Then the blame game started where he threw his team mates under the bus. Then he gets a new coaching staff and within months, the same issues surface. That was it. I saw what the common denominator was. It has nothing to do with color and everything to do with a selfish and immature prima donna.

 

[j_y19]

Sty, let me ask you a question. Assuming that Gruden does, in fact treat KC differently than Griffin, why do you think that is?

 

[ehb5]

I think bomanis coverage of the entire redskins qb issue over the past couple months has been pretty spot on.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Unlike several folks here & many in the Redskins general fan base - I really am not bothered by RG3's off field actions & actually view him as a good guy (does lots of work for the community & never gets in any trouble), but he certainly has said regretful things in the past - oh well. My issue with him are on the field where over the past several seasons he has been terrible in areas like pocket awareness & reading defenses.

My issues with Cousins are also on the field and barring a miracle this guy won't be in the Redskins plans much longer. I truly like the take given here by the Michigan St fan, and it explains a lot. The following article IMO is very good and explains a lot in terms of Cousins:

Jay Gruden's Commitment to Kirk Cousins Will Get Him Fired | Bleacher Report

Forget the title & the fact that is from Bleacher Report (generally an unreliable source) - the article has some very good pts. This is consistent w/ the post from the Michigan St. fan. Cousins is very smart & would appear to be the type who is great in meetings & learning things in the classroom. However - this quite often doesn't translate on the field especially since Cousins has a limited skill set. I have heard other NFL analysts make the same comments over the past few years. You also can't continue to make the comparison to other QBs making the same mistakes in their first 15-20 starts since Cousins is now 27 & has been in this system for 4 years. It is an apples to oranges comparison.

Personally - I don't care if the QB is black, white or purple. I just want someone who gets the job done & if they play well and win well they can talk & tweet to their hearts content. I would not mind seeing RG3 get another shot but the $16 million extension makes that problematic. Beyond that - I am all for perhaps going with a completely different QB next season. I also believe that Gruden has handled this situation very poorly.

 

[ehb5]

Interjecting race when it does not belong is such an irresponsible thing to do. People turned on Griffin because he sucked, he broke our hearts by costing us so much and then failing which set us back years, and finally by acting like a prima donna. He is an asshole, being black has nothing to do with it. And he has given us a ton of reasons to root for the other guy.

The fans embraced Kirk because he was the complete opposite of what I said about Griffin. He also represented our final shot at finding that elusive QB. It's really not that complicated.

I think its irresponsible to dismiss it without accepting the possibility of it in a situation like this.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think its irresponsible to dismiss it without accepting the possibility of it in a situation like this.

I believe that race may be a factor for certain fans (not fans on this forum). However - I don't believe in any way that it factors into Gruden's decision. Rather - I think that the issue w/ Gruden stems from him being stubborn & perhaps with him only being comfortable in implementing a very specific offensive system.

In any case it would be nice to actually focus on what occurs on the field and move away from more of the constant soap opera drama that always seems to haunt this team. I still think that this team returns to glory in a few years (with perhaps an almost completely different set of characters) which will mean an end to the drama or at least a winning situation where nobody cares about all of that noise.

 

[ehb5]

I believe that race may be a factor for certain fans (not fans on this forum). However - I don't believe in any way that it factors into Gruden's decision. Rather - I think that the issue w/ Gruden stems from him being stubborn & perhaps with him only being comfortable in implementing a very specific offensive system.

In any case it would be nice to actually focus on what occurs on the field and move away from more of the constant soap opera drama that always seems to haunt this team. I still think that this team returns to glory in a few years (with perhaps an almost completely different set of characters) which will mean an end to the drama or at least a winning situation where nobody cares about all of that noise.

I think everything you said is completely possible.

I just think (not accusing you of it) that a lot of people hear race and get all upset and offended by it instead of stopping to consider the possibility reasonably. I personally used to roll my eyes at things like that particularly with the accusations of Chip Kelly being racist but Bomani on twitter actually helped me realize that you can't just dismiss the possibility. With that having been said, I really doubt anybody on this forum cares about the race of the quarterback.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty, let me ask you a question. Assuming that Gruden does, in fact treat KC differently than Griffin, why do you think that is?

First we dont have to assume anything, as any fair minded person can see, it's evident.
While I don't want to get into a detailed explanation as to why people act and/or react differently towards one person versus another, it is just easier to point out a few things about social conditioning. I am not sure if you or others here can relate to either the woman who switches her pocketbook to the other side when a man enters the elevator that she's on, or to his thoughts upon seeing her reaction to him. How about being constantly watched or asked if you require assistance when shopping or that certain Qb's coming from one demographic are able to adjust, grow and learn in a manner that another coming from a different demographic cannot.

Is it racism? Maybe, maybe not, but these and many orther stereotypes are steeped in generations of acceptance, all coming from that nasty root. That in essence is social conditioning. Truth is most people rely on who they are and where their roots lie when the question is how best to interact with those unlike themselves.

We do not know why Gruden treats one guy one way and the other differently, what we do know is that he did. That is indisputable. Was it racism? I doubt it........that said, I must concede that the evil of racsim that the collective never wants to deal with in an honest way, has seeded the social conditions that gave us J. Gruden, you and myself.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think everything you said is completely possible.

I just think (not accusing you of it) that a lot of people hear race and get all upset and offended by it instead of stopping to consider the possibility reasonably. I personally used to roll my eyes at things like that particularly with the accusations of Chip Kelly being racist but Bomani on twitter actually helped me realize that you can't just dismiss the possibility. With that having been said, I really doubt anybody on this forum cares about the race of the quarterback.

I think that is very possible. However - on the flip side - I think that some media types play this angle way too often since they are lazy & since it is a ratings grabber. Also - as I stated before - I certainly believe that there are some Redskins fans who think along racial lines, but I truly believe that they are in the minority. I don't recall any Redskins fans who didn't rally around Doug Williams when he was leading a SB team. In a similar manner I am willing to bet that just about all Redskins fans were in RG3's corner in 2012.

If the current situation w/ Cousins becomes even worse I don't believe that it will because Gruden is a racist. Rather - it will be because he is clueless.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think bomanis coverage of the entire redskins qb issue over the past couple months has been pretty spot on.

Really? I have not been keeping up with it but did read this article after seeing your comment:

How ESPN’s Bomani Jones became the world’s biggest Kirk Cousins skeptic

Here is an excerpt:

JONES: There are a few levels to this. They start with the rise and fall of Robert Griffin, which would intrigue anyone with an intellectual pulse, I’d think. The part that got me, though, was how Griffin became the villain, primarily for not being the same after a catastrophic injury that seemed to be preventable. It’s an odd reason to hate someone so much, but here we are.

So RG3 was disliked primarily because of his play after his injury? That is only partially the truth & Jones knows it. This is a very misleading statement. I also believe that Jones is trying to imply that the support for RG3 or Cousins is divided along racial lines. That may be partially true but in no way represents the feelings of lots of fans that I have encountered.

Over the past few years I have had numerous debates with family & friends where myself and other relatives will defend RG3 whereas others are in the Cousins camp - most/all of these folks are white. I have encountered people of all races who defend both sides of this argument. I also mainly encounter Redskins fans who just don't care - they want a winning team regardless of the QB (& many probably feel like me - move on - get another QB).

IMO - Jones - like his partner on TV Dan Lebatard - is a clown - good for laughs but not for serious opinions - I have little to no respect for this guy & his over-the-top approach to broadcasting. He is perfect for ESPN where fellow clowns like Skip Bayless, Tony Kornheiser & Stephen A Smith operate in a similar manner.

 

[chappee11]

So I've hesitated to start a thread on this article because it addresses the possibility of race as an issue with how Kirk and Robert have been treated and that topic can easily derail into insults as well as become quite heated, quickly.

I hope we can all remain respectful with our thoughts, whatever they might be.

How ESPN’s Bomani Jones became the world’s biggest Kirk Cousins skeptic

How the hell did the QB situation in WAS become about race?!?! That is just plain silly. Isn't the league like 70% black? Some people like to make EVERYTHING about race. It's so played-out.

 

[ehb5]

Really? I have not been keeping up with it but did read this article after seeing your comment:

How ESPN’s Bomani Jones became the world’s biggest Kirk Cousins skeptic

Here is an excerpt:

JONES: There are a few levels to this. They start with the rise and fall of Robert Griffin, which would intrigue anyone with an intellectual pulse, I’d think. The part that got me, though, was how Griffin became the villain, primarily for not being the same after a catastrophic injury that seemed to be preventable. It’s an odd reason to hate someone so much, but here we are.

So RG3 was disliked primarily because of his play after his injury? That is only partially the truth & Jones knows it. This is a very misleading statement. I also believe that Jones is trying to imply that the support for RG3 or Cousins is divided along racial lines. That may be partially true but in no way represents the feelings of lots of fans that I have encountered.

Over the past few years I have had numerous debates with family & friends where myself and other relatives will defend RG3 whereas others are in the Cousins camp - most/all of these folks are white. I have encountered people of all races who defend both sides of this argument. I also mainly encounter Redskins fans who just don't care - they want a winning team regardless of the QB (& many probably feel like me - move on - get another QB).

IMO - Jones - like his partner on TV Dan Lebatard - is a clown - good for laughs but not for serious opinions - I have little to no respect for this guy & his over-the-top approach to broadcasting. He is perfect for ESPN where fellow clowns like Skip Bayless, Tony Kornheiser & Stephen A Smith operate in a similar manner.

I actually think he's one of the few people on ESPN who thinks before he speaks. The problem is that just because he brought up race doesn't mean he is actually acusing gruden or the fans of racism. He's simply and legitimitely curious about the issue and thinks that race is a factor you have to at least explore.

 

[ehb5]

How the hell did the QB situation in WAS become about race?!?! That is just plain silly. Isn't the league like 70% black? Some people like to make EVERYTHING about race. It's so played-out.

It's not crazy that race could be a factor. Maybe it's not but I don't think it's out of the question.

 

[chappee11]

It's not crazy that race could be a factor. Maybe it's not but I don't think it's out of the question.

I just don't buy it. Coaches are paid to win. They want to have the best players out there to do so. The reason Griffin is so hated is because he's a huge bust and he cost a ton of picks. The reason Cousins is "liked" is because he was a 4th round pick with no expectations. If the roles were reversed and Cousins was a Ryan Leaf-type failure(as Griffin is), he would certainly hear about it. And deservedly so. This is the same BS as Chip Kelly being called a racist while having a team that is 80% black.