Best Starting Pitcher of all Time?

[HammerDown]

 

[tducey]

Cy Young

 

[Nasty_Magician]

I can't say one way or another for the older guys but give me vintage Pedro over his contemporaries.

 

[JV35]

Walter Johnson is a no-brainer.

But, I'd still take Koufax for a 5-year stretch.

 

[calsnowskier]

We have had some monsters in our generation. Johnson, Maddux, Pedro, Clemens...

I have no idea if they compare to W. Johnson, Gibson, Matthewson, etc, though.

 

[NDKane21]

I would go Pedro here but innings 8 and 9 were dicey at times. Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens were both pretty bad ass. I didn't see a lot of the others pitch...W. Johnson, Young, Koufax.

Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan have to be on this poll...

 

[navamind]

I would go Pedro here but innings 8 and 9 were dicey at times. Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens were both pretty bad ass. I didn't see a lot of the others pitch...W. Johnson, Young, Koufax.

Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan have to be on this poll...

lol

 

[GNG]

Many here wouldn't agree but in my opinion it would be Warren Spahn.

 

[navamind]

Many here wouldn't agree but in my opinion it would be Warren Spahn.

Not enough dominance IMO. Absolute workhorse though. Same with Ryan (though Spahn had a considerably better ERA/ERA+). 17 consecutive seasons in the top 10 in his league IP (most of which were top 3 finishes).

 

[GNG]

Not enough dominance IMO. Absolute workhorse though. Same with Ryan (though Spahn had a considerably better ERA/ERA+). 17 consecutive seasons in the top 10 in his league IP (most of which were top 3 finishes).

Spahn pitched consistently for two decades in the big leagues. He is deserving in my opinion.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Walter Johnson is a no-brainer.

But, I'd still take Koufax for a 5-year stretch.

Honestly, Koufax has become very overrated to me. That 5-year stretch consisted of some great seasons, but in 1962 he pitched about half a season, only pitching 9.2 innings after July 12th. He missed significant time in 1964 as well, only 14th in the NL in innings pitched that year. Drysdale's ERA was just .44 higher and he pitched 100 more innings. His truly dominant years were '63, '65, and '66. I'll take Pedro from '97-'03

 

[JV35]

Honestly, Koufax has become very overrated to me. That 5-year stretch consisted of some great seasons, but in 1962 he pitched about half a season, only pitching 9.2 innings after July 12th. He missed significant time in 1964 as well, only 14th in the NL in innings pitched that year. Drysdale's ERA was just .44 higher and he pitched 100 more innings. His truly dominant years were '63, '65, and '66. I'll take Pedro from '97-'03

Downgrading his 1964 season is ludicrous. It was the only season he led in all 3 categories of ERA+/FIP/WHIP.

(He also led the NL in Win Pct./ERA/Shutouts--While Drysdale was losing 16 games).

You have a point about 1962. But, you sound sadly misinformed downgrading his performance in 1964.

 

[navamind]

Honestly, Koufax has become very overrated to me. That 5-year stretch consisted of some great seasons, but in 1962 he pitched about half a season, only pitching 9.2 innings after July 12th. He missed significant time in 1964 as well, only 14th in the NL in innings pitched that year. Drysdale's ERA was just .44 higher and he pitched 100 more innings. His truly dominant years were '63, '65, and '66. I'll take Pedro from '97-'03

Agreed.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Downgrading his 1964 season is ludicrous. It was the only season he led in all 3 categories of ERA+/FIP/WHIP.

(He also led the NL in Win Pct./ERA/Shutouts--While Drysdale was losing 16 games).

You have a point about 1962. But, you sound sadly misinformed downgrading his performance in 1964.

I'm downgrading his performance because he was 14th in innings pitched in the NL and 28th in baseball. You pointed out a bunch of rate stats, which I completely understand he led in. However, those are not as impressive when you are throwing far fewer innings.

 

[broncosmitty]

Spahn pitched consistently for two decades in the big leagues. He is deserving in my opinion.

All depends on how you look at what makes a guy GOAT.

If it's a 3-5 year streak of dominance, there's a group.

If it's an impressive, long career with continued success, there's another group.

I'm sticking with Johnson, but there's always that part of me that likes to think of these arguments as "if you got a guy for his entire career who would you take?" Hurts the Pedros and Koufaxs if you go that route. Helps the Ryan's and Spahns. And definitely Cy Young.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Downgrading his 1964 season is ludicrous. It was the only season he led in all 3 categories of ERA+/FIP/WHIP.

(He also led the NL in Win Pct./ERA/Shutouts--While Drysdale was losing 16 games).

You have a point about 1962. But, you sound sadly misinformed downgrading his performance in 1964.

What I sometimes like to look at when one pitcher has pitched much more than another is the differences.

Drysdale pitched 98.1 more innings than Koufax in 1964 and allowed 35 more earned runs. That works out to an ERA of 3.20, or almost exactly the park adjusted league average. And 98.1 innings of league average pitching certainly has value, no?