Are the Rams a dirty team?

[SJ76]

So now you are claiming there isn't a pattern of serious brain damage with former players? You really need to stop talking.

You really need to shut the fuck up and stop beating a dead horse while being a vagina.

Teddy was cleared and practiced yesterday. It's time to move on. Jim Mcmahon is a pothead and I was just being a smartass. Sure he took a beating like most football players did back in the day. You missed my comment on Dorsett and Junior Seau obviously.

 

[Ballboy534]

Boy, Rams fans sure are a sensitive bunch

 

[J-Rod]

Do not judge the majority over the actions of a few.

 

[Vitamike]

If you don't want to get hit with a lot of force, then QBs need to stay in the pocket or slide earlier.

^^ THIS ^^

Seriously, if you are an NFL QB you've got to estimate a violent collision in these types of circumstances (As a matter of fact they are responsible to expect it under the 'dead ball' rule)

(2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

I find a couple of things interesting here.

First, because the QB is out of the pocket and beyond the line of scrimmage, under the 'dead ball' rule, he is actually considered a runner. Sounds a lot like what we've been hearing from @SJ76

Next, another interesting fact about this rule is where it states, the 'runner' desiring to take advantage of this protection (In this instance, Bridgewater) does not start his slide before the defensive player's contact is imminent, the 'runner' himself, (not the defender) puts HIMSELF in jeopardy of being contacted.

Now I guess it's just the way you look at it but let's not pretend for one minute that the QB in this instance didn't have a responsibility under Rule 7 to slide with enough time for the defender to not make contact with the RUNNER.

I put all this here because I find it very interesting that if this were another ball carrier other than a Quarterback and if that player is not injured, it most likely does not even draw a flag on the play, much less a fine or any of the BS dialog here found in this thread.

For that reason alone this is BS.

Any player outside the pocket and beyond the line of scrimmage is a RUNNER and the refs should be blind to the fact that the RUNNER is a QB or whether the RUNNER is injured on the play.

Here is Rule 7 in it's entirety pertaining to the Dead Ball rule.

Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared.
An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: (a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to advance; or (b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends; or (c) when a quarterback immediately drops to his knee (or simulates dropping to his knee) behind the line of scrimmage; or (d) when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet; or Note: Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact. (1) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck are a of the runner. (2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

 

[SJ76]

Boy, Rams fans sure are a sensitive bunch

If Rams fans are sensitive, I guess the PC crowd and the Vikings fans are truly little bitches. Rams fans are certainly not crying about a QB getting lit up outside the pocket.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

If Rams fans are sensitive, I guess the PC crowd and the Vikings fans are truly little bitches. Rams fans are certainly not crying about a QB getting lit up outside the pocket.

To think the NFC North once was known as the black and blue division. Shame to see them become all about finesse.

 

[JohnRandle]

To think the NFC North once was known as the black and blue division. Shame to see them become all about finesse.

Vikes are a run first team with a top defense. Nothing screams finesse about them.
Teddy went into a slide with plenty of time for d-back to react, that's why he was fined.
Nothing more to discuss about it really..

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Vikes are a run first team with a top defense. Nothing screams finesse about them.
Teddy went into a slide with plenty of time for d-back to react, that's why he was fined.
Nothing more to discuss about it really..

Haven't see you around much John, and yes the Vikings are a run first team. Defense may want to improve the run defense though. As for the play, guess it's a matter of opinion, I felt the QB was going for the max and that had a bit to do with it. Didn't feel it was a dirty play. Just a bang bang play.
As for the division, the NFC North is no longer the black and blue division.

 

[JohnRandle]

Haven't see you around much John, and yes the Vikings are a run first team. Defense may want to improve the run defense though. As for the play, guess it's a matter of opinion, I felt the QB was going for the max and that had a bit to do with it. Didn't feel it was a dirty play. Just a bang bang play.
As for the division, the NFC North is no longer the black and blue division.

As long as they don't give up points, I'm ok with a few rushing yards.
We'll just have to agree to dissagree on the late dirty cheap hit..lol

 

[Ballboy534]

If Rams fans are sensitive, I guess the PC crowd and the Vikings fans are truly little bitches. Rams fans are certainly not crying about a QB getting lit up outside the pocket.

If you think being "PC" means calling someone out for intentionally dropping an elbow on a player that gave themselves up, I'd love to see your manifesto brother...

 

[Vitamike]

If you think being "PC" means calling someone out for intentionally dropping an elbow on a player that gave themselves up, I'd love to see your manifesto brother...

Joyner doesn't drop his elbow, he kept it tucked as he tries to roll over the top.

Watch the 48 second mark...

(Sorry, but you will need to click on the 'Watch on YouTube' link to view)

Also at the 54 second mark you can see that Teddy still hasn't slide and Joyner was already moving to his left to make the stop. At the 55 second mark (Now this is in slow motion so its less than a second) You can see that Teddy has begun his slide and Joyner has committed to lay his hit.

Now according to Rule 7 (Which I just posted) it says that the runner is responsible to slide before contact is imminent and if he does not and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, HE puts himself in jeopardy.

So, I guess what we all need to ask ourselves; Did Teddy wait until the last moment or not? We can all see in the video that contact was imminent at the 54 second mark. Bridgewater starts his slide at the 55 second mark and Joyner makes contact with Teddy's facemask at the 56 second mark (All in slow motion)

So to determine whether this is a dirty play by Joyner or not, I guess we all need to ask ourselves, if Teddy giving himself a fraction of a second, is 'waiting until the last moment to begin his slide'

I say Hell No!

Therefore IMO, and according to Rule 7 Teddy put himself in jeopardy because if providing less than a fraction of a second is not waiting until the last moment than what the hell is?

(2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

 

[SJ76]

If you think being "PC" means calling someone out for intentionally dropping an elbow on a player that gave themselves up, I'd love to see your manifesto brother...

Think of it like this... Week 1 Josh McCown runs our of the pocket, crosses the goalline and gets hit helmet to helmet, doesn't pass concussion tests for 2 weeks. Teddy Bridgewater runs out of the pocket and slides, gets hit by Joyner leading his shoulder and elbow (all 1 piece), hits Teddy's head then it hit the turf... Teddy is out cold. Then Teddy passes concussion test 4-5 days later and PLAYS the following week.

If Teddy's hit was so bad, why wasn't he out for a few weeks?

 

[Ballboy534]

Think of it like this... Week 1 Josh McCown runs our of the pocket, crosses the goalline and gets hit helmet to helmet, doesn't pass concussion tests for 2 weeks. Teddy Bridgewater runs out of the pocket and slides, gets hit by Joyner leading his shoulder and elbow (all 1 piece), hits Teddy's head then it hit the turf... Teddy is out cold. Then Teddy passes concussion test 4-5 days later and PLAYS the following week.

If Teddy's hit was so bad, why wasn't he out for a few weeks?

No idea; don't know their individual histories, but given McCowns age and number of years playing high level football versus Bridgewater, I would surmise that McCown has a higher likelihood of previous concussions which would make it harder each time to return. Every head injury is unique in the amount of time it takes to recover from though; the protocol for an athlete to return is a lot stricter than it was even a few years ago. I doubt the Vikings could have skewed the testing if that's what you're implying.

 

[SJ76]

No idea; don't know their individual histories, but given McCowns age and number of years playing high level football versus Bridgewater, I would surmise that McCown has a higher likelihood of previous concussions which would make it harder each time to return. Every head injury is unique in the amount of time it takes to recover from though; the protocol for an athlete to return is a lot stricter than it was even a few years ago. I doubt the Vikings could have skewed the testing if that's what you're implying.

That's my point. And no one is going to fudge on the test, I just think it's interesting Teddy was "knocked out" but was back at practice 4-5 days later.. And Josh was not knocked out at all and was out 2 weeks before he even pass the test. If was that bad of a hit or concussion I think Teddy would be out for longer than 4-5 days IMO - i'm no doctor but I did recently stay at a holiday inn.

Anyhow, this has become a dead horse.

 

[Ballboy534]

That's my point. And no one is going to fudge on the test, I just think it's interesting Teddy was "knocked out" but was back at practice 4-5 days later.. And Josh was not knocked out at all and was out 2 weeks before he even pass the test. If was that bad of a hit or concussion I think Teddy would be out for longer than 4-5 days IMO - i'm no doctor but I did recently stay at a holiday inn.

Anyhow, this has become a dead horse.

The athlete will do anything they can to get cleared, now the league and independent medical observers won't let 'em. To me, the hit looked a lot worse than it ended up being since he played this weekend.

 

[Clayton]

Rams are getting flagged for everything these days. Dumb penalties, vicious penalties and phantom penalties.

Ive been calling for Fisher's head since about week 2 of last year. His style doesn't work anymore. Routinely having the other team out posses the Rams 1.5 to 1 or even 2 to 1 despite having the better running back. Routinely getting 1.5 to 1 or even 2 to 1 on penalties. Routinely kicking 60yd field goals when the Rams have one of the best punters you could want. Routinely making gambles at the wrong time. Routinely bringing in average players from the Titans. Routinely watching bad QBs and bad oline and bad TEs and bad WRs.

I know there are posters who come in on here every once in awhile and defend Fisher and call other Rams fans dumb whenever Fisher hits .500 but then they vanish once he ends up with another 6-7 win season.

 

[ducky]

Rams are getting flagged for everything these days. Dumb penalties, vicious penalties and phantom penalties.

Ive been calling for Fisher's head since about week 2 of last year. His style doesn't work anymore. Routinely having the other team out posses the Rams 1.5 to 1 or even 2 to 1 despite having the better running back. Routinely getting 1.5 to 1 or even 2 to 1 on penalties. Routinely kicking 60yd field goals when the Rams have one of the best punters you could want. Routinely making gambles at the wrong time. Routinely bringing in average players from the Titans. Routinely watching bad QBs and bad oline and bad TEs and bad WRs.

I know there are posters who come in on here every once in awhile and defend Fisher and call other Rams fans dumb whenever Fisher hits .500 but then they vanish once he ends up with another 6-7 win season.

Fisher could have worked in STL if they would have found a halfway decent QB. But they didn't. Foles looked like absolute dogshit yesterday. And that regime has had long enough to figure it out by now yet they are today further away from an answer at the QB position than they have ever been. Definitely time for them to move on.

 

[Clayton]

Fisher could have worked in STL if they would have found a halfway decent QB. But they didn't. Foles looked like absolute dogshit yesterday. And that regime has had long enough to figure it out by now yet they are today further away from an answer at the QB position than they have ever been. Definitely time for them to move on.

As far as I can tell, Foles has been the 3rd worst QB in the league just a little bit ahead of Kaepernick and Peyton.

Austin Davis through 9 games in 2014: 85.1 Qb rating, 7.05YPA, 12Tds, 9Ints, 4 Fumbles
Nick Foles (Eagles) through 8 games in 2014: 81.4 Qb rating, 6.96 YPA, 13Tds, 10Ints, 3 Fumbles
Kellen Clemens through 10 games in 2013: 78.8 Qb rating, 6.91 YPA, 8Tds, 7Ints, 5 Fumbles
Nick Foles through 9 games in 2015: 75.9 QB rating, 6.56 YPA, 7Tds, 6Ints, 3 Fumbles

That second line isn't the amazing Foles year with the Eagles, either.

So Foles has actually been worse than Kellen Clemens and the 3rd string QB on the Browns. The big difference between Foles and Clemens is that Foles is getting open receivers and Clemens never had those. Foles just isnt seeing them or isnt making the throw.

 

[ducky]

As far as I can tell, Foles has been the 3rd worst QB in the league just a little bit ahead of Kaepernick and Peyton.

Well to be fair if I told you during the offseason that Foles would look as good as Payton Manning, I bet you would have been pretty excited.