Altuve/Stanton win MVP

[soxfan1468927]

And it hasn't been done in the NL since the 2004 Cardinals when Pujols, Rolen, and Edmonds finished 3, 4, and 5.

 

[navamind]

AL MVP
1. Jose Altuve
2. Aaron Judge
3. Jose Ramirez
4. Mike Trout
5. Francisco Lindor
6. Mookie Betts
7. Corey Kluber
8. Andrelton Simmons
9. Chris Sale
10. Nelson Cruz
11. Brian Dozier
12. Jonathan Schoop
13. George Springer
t-14. Jose Abreu
t-14. Eric Hosmer
16. Justin Upton
17. Carlos Correa
18. Byron Buxton
19. Marwin Gonzalez
t-20. Edwin Encarnacion
t-20. Didi Gregorius
t-22. Khris Davis
t-22. Josh Donaldson
t-22. Gary Sanchez

Simmons finished a lot higher than I thought he would.

 

[navamind]

This is the 3rd straight year that at least one of the MVPs came from a team that didn't make the playoffs.

2015 Harper
2016 Trout
2017 Stanton

Goldschmidt (2015) and Votto (2017) also finished second despite playing on sub-.500 teams.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

NL MVP was really tight and the voting reflected that. Stanton did lead all position players in both baseball-reference and fangraphs WAR. My vote would have gone to Arenado, but it was really close. And I really had to dig to find major differences. One of the things I found was Arenado's play against winning teams and his clutch play put him over the top for me.

For a comparison between Arenado and Stanton in terms of those two aspects:

Stanton vs teams with a losing record: 436 plate appearances, 1.106 OPS
Stanton vs teams with a winning record: 256 plate appearances, .842 OPS

Arenado vs teams with a losing record: 385 plate appearances, .953 OPS
Arenado vs teams with a winning record: 295 plate appearances, .967 OPS

Stanton with 2 outs and runners in scoring position: .215/.338/.385/.722
Arenado with 2 outs and runners in scoring position: .359/.481/.797/1.278

And due largely to his play in high-leverage situations, Arenado's WPA was 4.9 to Stanton's 4.8. They were 1 and 2 in the league.

And I understand that Arenado plays at Coors, but his road tOPS+ (which measures his OPS in that split compared to his total OPS) was 86 compared to 85 for Stanton.

There are a few other things, and I won't dig this deep into the numbers unless it's really close, and this year it was.

Just wondering why do you have Arenado over Blackmon... I relooked at the numbers, I have Blackmon being MVP over Goldy and Stanton... The only things against him is playing for Colorado, and having another top 5 candidate on his team...

 

[navamind]

Just wondering why do you have Arenado over Blackmon... I relooked at the numbers, I have Blackmon being MVP over Goldy and Stanton... The only things against him is playing for Colorado, and having another top 5 candidate on his team...

Defense? Arenado's one of the best defensive players in all of baseball.

not to mention baserunning... Blackmon was caught 10 times on 24 steal attempts.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Defense? Arenado's one of the best defensive players in all of baseball.

not to mention baserunning... Blackmon was caught 10 times on 24 steal attempts.

so, an elite defensive 3B is more valuable than an average at best defensive CF?? disregarding offense...

and so what about the 10 CS when there is a 17 differential in GIDP...

Blackmon had 4 GIDP and 10 CS= 14 extra outs
Arenado had 21 GIDP and 2 CS= 23 extra outs

 

[The Derski]

Goldy got robbed I tell you.

Robbed

 

[Calm]

All this talk about worthy alternatives to Stanton and no mention of Votto?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

All this talk about worthy alternatives to Stanton and no mention of Votto?

didn't need to debate votto... he is already 2nd in voting, and if you are not going to give it to a playoff player, then it is understandable giving it to Stanton over Votto...

 

[Calm]

didn't need to debate votto... he is already 2nd in voting, and if you are not going to give it to a playoff player, then it is understandable giving it to Stanton over Votto...

Why though. Because HR?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Why though. Because HR?

Mostly... 59 is something special... that is why nobody is really complaining about him winning in the first place... He also led the league in RBI...

 

[StanMarsh51]

Goldy got robbed I tell you.

Robbed

D'Back fans on here always complain that he was robbed in prior years because he didn't make the playoffs.

But when he did make the playoffs and didn't win MVP, he was robbed for another reason now?


Either there must be some conspiracy against Goldschmidt, or D'Back fans are major homers...

 

[soxfan1468927]

Just wondering why do you have Arenado over Blackmon... I relooked at the numbers, I have Blackmon being MVP over Goldy and Stanton... The only things against him is playing for Colorado, and having another top 5 candidate on his team...

Blackmon benefited way more from Coors than Arenado did. His OPS dropped 450 points on the road, Arenado's dropped 250. Arenado also was better with 2 outs and runners in scoring position, late and close situations, and against winning teams.

Arenado was also a better baserunner and more valuable defensively.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Blackmon benefited way more from Coors than Arenado did. His OPS dropped 450 points on the road, Arenado's dropped 250. Arenado also was better with 2 outs and runners in scoring position, late and close situations, and against winning teams.

Arenado was also a better baserunner and more valuable defensively.

I dont care much about OPS since I dont consider Blackmon a HR hitter despite his 36 HRs, but damn Blackmon's BA went from .391 to .276 ok... I am sold... no more...

 

[soxfan1468927]

so, an elite defensive 3B is more valuable than an average at best defensive CF?? disregarding offense...

and so what about the 10 CS when there is a 17 differential in GIDP...

Blackmon had 4 GIDP and 10 CS= 14 extra outs
Arenado had 21 GIDP and 2 CS= 23 extra outs

Blackmon had 77 PA with less than 2 outs and a force out at 2nd, 3rd, or home. Arenado at 157. Big reason why there is that large of a discrepancy.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I dont care much about OPS since I dont consider Blackmon a HR hitter despite his 36 HRs, but damn Blackmon's BA went from .391 to .276 ok... I am sold... no more...

And his slugging dropped from .773 to .447.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Blackmon had 77 PA with less than 2 outs and a force out at 2nd, 3rd, or home. Arenado at 157. Big reason why there is that large of a discrepancy.

oh I understand, there is reasons for it... my point was just simply talking about extra outs... CS and GIDP...

If you are going to punish a player for his CS, how can you not put equal footing on his GIDP??

 

[soxfan1468927]

oh I understand, there is reasons for it... my point was just simply talking about extra outs... CS and GIDP...

If you are going to punish a player for his CS, how can you not put equal footing on his GIDP??

I get it. The difference is that in one instance, you can just stay put on 1st base. A hitter isn't just going to not swing the bat. But the results are the same, it's extra outs.

I tend to compare baserunning to baserunning. And Arenado took the extra bag 55% of the time compared to 41% for Blackmon. And was caught on the basepaths just 4 times (not including stolen bases) compared to 9 times for Blackmon.

 

[broncosmitty]

Goldy got robbed I tell you.

Robbed

The prophecies are true.

 

[soxfan1468927]

D'Back fans on here always complain that he was robbed in prior years because he didn't make the playoffs.

But when he did make the playoffs and didn't win MVP, he was robbed for another reason now?


Either there must be some conspiracy against Goldschmidt, or D'Back fans are major homers...

Paul Goldschmidt. It's his time.

He's been frowned upon in the voting in the past and finished 2nd due to his team not winning... well, now he's on a winning team and he's having a career year, it's all lined up.

You mean like this?