2019 Offseason Thread

[Shanemansj13]

@Shanemansj13 @dtgold88 and all the other REAL Cleveland fans out there--- how 'bout that Tribe?

11 1/2 down to the Twins--- now tied for first place.

Lindor had no spring training and missed the first month of the season
Jose Ramirez with a terrible terrible slump to start the season
Clevinger with a long term injury
Kluber with an even longer term injury
Carrasco diagnosed with cancer
Bauer- traded

plenty of other injuries as well------

and they really fought their way back. It has been a helluva team effort- esp. considering Carrasco and Kluber- 2 of the better pitchers in the American League have basically not even contributed.

Gotta say- its been a helluva fun last couple months---- and thats just leading into Browns season.

Its pretty nice to have a good Indians and a Browns team with this much excitement while the Cavs go through their rebuild.

The way they were playing early in the season I wouldnt have expected this. Guys have emerged, Bieber and Clevinger are aces and if Plesac and Civale continue this Kluber wont be here for much longer. Crazy they have gone on this run with Kluber and Carrasco though. Hoping for another magical run just like a couple years ago but that being said just kinda shocked how well they have played and they have a tough schedule left so no guarantees but Ramirez is on fire now. Kipnis is back, never thought I would say that. I thought he was dunzo last year

 

[trojanfan12]

AL playoffs shaping up to be really interesting. All 4 teams who make it will be really really good unlike the NL

Yeah, NL looks like it's my Dodgers to lose.

They need to figure something out with that bullpen though, or they'll be one step closer to being the Buffalo Bills of MLB.

 

[trojanfan12]

Totally agree that seeding is tons less meaningless in baseball.
Still doesn’t change the fact that if Im invested in a team for 7 months I’d rather see them win then lose as often as possible.

To add ‘title contender’ as a prerequisite is lame. How often is that actually realistic?

Honestly, I think that both you and @dtgold88 make valid points.

I agree with you that, if I'm investing my time and money into supporting a team, I want to see that team win and be competitive as much as possible. Especially if I'm spending the time and money that a season ticket holder does.

On the other hand, I also don't want to see my team stuck in the same 5-9 seed every season with no real shot at competing for a title. In that case, I'd rather see the team tank for 2-3 years or so and hope to draft some good young talent that can be developed.

Where it really becomes an issue, imo...is when teams seem to be perpetually tanking.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Honestly, I think that both you and @dtgold88 make valid points.

I agree with you that, if I'm investing my time and money into supporting a team, I want to see that team win and be competitive as much as possible. Especially if I'm spending the time and money that a season ticket holder does.

On the other hand, I also don't want to see my team stuck in the same 5-9 seed every season with no real shot at competing for a title. In that case, I'd rather see the team tank for 2-3 years or so and hope to draft some good young talent that can be developed.

Where it really becomes an issue, imo...is when teams seem to be perpetually tanking.

I think history shows way more often then not, that that type of plan rarely works or amounts to anything near a true contender.

If Cavs won 19 last year, projected 24 this year, what is ETA to be contender?

And, if/when you reach that level, its still very difficult to win it all.

I get Cavs struggle with FA, but they also will always struggle to win a title.

Im not sure what is so wrong to be ok making the playoffs and seeing what happens, especially with that type of franchise.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think history shows way more often then not, that that type of plan rarely works or amounts to anything near a true contender.

If Cavs won 19 last year, projected 24 this year, what is ETA to be contender?

And, if/when you reach that level, its still very difficult to win it all.

I get Cavs struggle with FA, but they also will always struggle to win a title.

Im not sure what is so wrong to be ok making the playoffs and seeing what happens, especially with that type of franchise.

Because at some point, you want to at least sniff a shot at a title.

I see your point, but for me, being a lower playoff seed and 1st or 2nd round exit year after year would get really old after awhile.

At least every once in awhile, I'd like to see my team at least make a conference championship game, if not the actual finals.

 

[bksballer89]

I think history shows way more often then not, that that type of plan rarely works or amounts to anything near a true contender.

If Cavs won 19 last year, projected 24 this year, what is ETA to be contender?

And, if/when you reach that level, its still very difficult to win it all.

I get Cavs struggle with FA, but they also will always struggle to win a title.

Im not sure what is so wrong to be ok making the playoffs and seeing what happens, especially with that type of franchise.

For a team like the Cavs, they basically have to hit a home run eventually with one or 2 of their draft picks if they ever want to contend for a title again or make a big trade. One or the other

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Because at some point, you want to at least sniff a shot at a title.

I see your point, but for me, being a lower playoff seed and 1st or 2nd round exit year after year would get really old after awhile.

At least every once in awhile, I'd like to see my team at least make a conference championship game, if not the actual finals.

For a team like the Cavs, they basically have to hit a home run eventually with one or 2 of their draft picks if they ever want to contend for a title again or make a big trade. One or the other

I agree that you want to get over the hump, but to get over it, you need to get to it.
The NBA has always been star driven, and now it takes multiple.
Unless they change some rules in the next CBA, thats prob not changing, and def not changing until then.

Based on that, I just couldn’t be happy knowing Im going to lose 75% +/- of the time and be satisfied for endless years.

 

[bksballer89]

I agree that you want to get over the hump, but to get over it, you need to get to it.
The NBA has always been star driven, and now it takes multiple.
Unless they change some rules in the next CBA, thats prob not changing, and def not changing until then.

Based on that, I just couldn’t be happy knowing Im going to lose 75% +/- of the time and be satisfied for endless years.

Plus with the way the draft lottery is, you may not even get a top 3 pick even if one year you lose 60+ games.

I get why a team like Cleveland has to go this route but it is extremely risky because you can be like the Kings and keep missing on your top 5/10 picks and that almost lock you in to be trash for another 5+ years

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I miss basketball so much Im driving down to watch Big 3 tonight.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Plus with the way the draft lottery is, you may not even get a top 3 pick even if one year you lose 60+ games.

I get why a team like Cleveland has to go this route but it is extremely risky because you can be like the Kings and keep missing on your top 5/10 picks and that almost lock you in to be trash for another 5+ years

Or Phoenix, or a bunch of others.

 

[dtgold88]

Totally agree that seeding is tons less meaningless in baseball.
Still doesn’t change the fact that if Im invested in a team for 7 months I’d rather see them win then lose as often as possible.

To add ‘title contender’ as a prerequisite is lame. How often is that actually realistic?

Added title contender because it matters in this instance. I have no interest in my NBA team being in purgatory without much chance to get out of it. Really is no such thing in baseball because that type of team has a realistic shot at a title if they get to the playoffs.

My NBA team probably needs to suck and/or get lucky to get back to the top (or close to the top). Doubtful an elite FA is coming here. My baseball team could lure a stud FA if the team would pay him. Baseball players don't seem to care as much about market as long as a lesser market will pay them.

 

[dtgold88]

Heading to the Tribe/Yanks game next Friday

Should be fun.

AL playoffs shaping up to be really interesting. All 4 teams who make it will be really really good unlike the NL

Houston would be the team I'd want to avoid with their pitching, but agree. Someone gets hot and they could be knocked off.

 

[dtgold88]

Honestly, I think that both you and @dtgold88 make valid points.

I agree with you that, if I'm investing my time and money into supporting a team, I want to see that team win and be competitive as much as possible. Especially if I'm spending the time and money that a season ticket holder does.

On the other hand, I also don't want to see my team stuck in the same 5-9 seed every season with no real shot at competing for a title. In that case, I'd rather see the team tank for 2-3 years or so and hope to draft some good young talent that can be developed.

Where it really becomes an issue, imo...is when teams seem to be perpetually tanking.

So would seem you agree with what the Cavs have done. Worked the last time they did it and didn't take much more than 3 years. Of course, I doubt a star from NE Ohio will be saving us in 2-3 years so they do have their work cut out for them.

 

[dtgold88]

I think history shows way more often then not, that that type of plan rarely works or amounts to anything near a true contender.

If Cavs won 19 last year, projected 24 this year, what is ETA to be contender?

And, if/when you reach that level, its still very difficult to win it all.

I get Cavs struggle with FA, but they also will always struggle to win a title.

Im not sure what is so wrong to be ok making the playoffs and seeing what happens, especially with that type of franchise.

If they went a long time being a dreg I might agree, but for the most part this has not happened to them. Never won it all in the late 80s, early 90s but they were a legit contender. Had some purgatory type years in the 90s but not the long run at that level some teams have had. Seem to be some teams that are perpetually at pugatory level or not even that good. That has not been the Cavs for quite some time.

 

[dtgold88]

For a team like the Cavs, they basically have to hit a home run eventually with one or 2 of their draft picks if they ever want to contend for a title again or make a big trade. One or the other

Agree.....and much better chance that happens with a high pick, cap space and extra assets.

 

[Black Adam]

I miss basketball so much Im driving down to watch Big 3 tonight.

lol, you sound like getting ready to watch the Chiefs play today...

and yeah, it's preseason, but IDGAF, it's football...

 

[dtgold88]

I agree that you want to get over the hump, but to get over it, you need to get to it.
The NBA has always been star driven, and now it takes multiple.
Unless they change some rules in the next CBA, thats prob not changing, and def not changing until then.

Based on that, I just couldn’t be happy knowing Im going to lose 75% +/- of the time and be satisfied for endless years.

Nor would I, but I don't consider 2-3 years endless.

 

[bksballer89]

Agree.....and much better chance that happens with a high pick, cap space and extra assets.

There's been very few franchise changers selected in the top 5 the last 10 years or so

Cap space means nothing because Cleveland isn't a free agent destination for top players.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Nor would I, but I don't consider 2-3 years endless.

This is year 2.
Good luck with that 2-3 year projection.

 

[bksballer89]

If i want to be generous, there's been at most 2 or 3 of them since the 2009 draft.

More like 0 or 1 tbh