2017 Draft

[ATL96Steeler]

I don't really understand why there isn't a difference between a "dilute sample" & testing positive for a banned substance. Seems ass-backwards to me. Pissing a sample that contains a lot of water seems questionable, but if it contains a banned substance shouldn't it be viewed as far worse?

According to NFL.com... Based on the provisions of the NFL's policy and program for substances of abuse, "this will be treated like a positive test."

My guess is he falls to the 2nd Rd. Doubt very far.

Idk a whole lot about the NFL testing either, but I do know that a fair amount of players get busted for masking agents, and or whatever the banned substance is.

Even in a diluted sample, if you have taken a banned substance, it's still there. You can't flush out THC or whatever.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

No Tim Williams!!!!!

I see that as a possibility too. I'm preparing myself for Williams/Peppers/Kizer. Not happy with any of them though.

It's kind of lining up for that...they brought him in for a visit knowing his track record at Bama. They really need an edge guy, probably feel like they've learned from Bryant and think they have the support system to help him stay clean

I have to say though...of that trio, I'd rather Williams over Peppers or Kizer.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Idk a whole lot about the NFL testing either, but I do know that a fair amount of players get busted for masking agents, and or whatever the banned substance is.

Even in a diluted sample, if you have taken a banned substance, it's still there. You can't flush out THC or whatever.

Well he & the Foster kid both produced these "dilute samples". Foster claims he was sick before the draft & needed to replenish his fluids via water & gatorade. Peppers apparently has dealt with constant hydration issues during his playing career, so he wanted to be well hydrated given he had 2 separate combine workouts for both LB's & DB's.

Nothing was reported on masking agents.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Well he & the Foster kid both produced these "dilute samples". Foster claims he was sick before the draft & needed to replenish his fluids via water & gatorade. Peppers apparently has dealt with constant hydration issues during his playing career, so he wanted to be well hydrated given he had 2 separate combine workouts for both LB's & DB's.

Nothing was reported on masking agents.

There's a good chance they are clean, but obviously a diluted test is a failed test.

My point was even in a diluted sample, THC will still be there.

I agree, before the league puts players into their drug treatment program, they should be certain that they've tested positive for a banned substance. Although they don't know it's a diluted sample right away, but a diluted sample is just that...a diluted sample...re-test them.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

There's a good chance they are clean, but obviously a diluted test is a failed test.

My point was even in a diluted sample, THC will still be there.

I agree, before the league puts players into their drug treatment program, they should be certain that they've tested positive for a banned substance. Although they don't know it's a diluted sample right away, but a diluted sample is just that...a diluted sample...re-test them.

Exactly. So if the THC was there and they didn't know it right away, why is it being reported as only a diluted sample this far removed from the combine? Shouldn't they know whether or not the sample had a banned substance in it by now?

 

[Bridgeburner]

It's kind of lining up for that...they brought him in for a visit knowing his track record at Bama. They really need an edge guy, probably feel like they've learned from Bryant and think they have the support system to help him stay clean

I have to say though...of that trio, I'd rather Williams over Peppers or Kizer.

My concern with Williams is more his being a part time player than it is his off-field issues. I just don't think he has the tape to warrant a first round pick. I'm not even sure he has the tape to warrant a second. I think of those three I would probably hold my nose and take Peppers.

 

[Bridgeburner]

Honestly, if the first round grade edge players are all gone at 30 and they can get a third round pick for moving back... that would be my choice. I know that's not what they do but that's what I would like to see. Move back, grab a couple edge and a couple DB in the second/third.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Honestly, if the first round grade edge players are all gone at 30 and they can get a third round pick for moving back... that would be my choice. I know that's not what they do but that's what I would like to see. Move back, grab a couple edge and a couple DB in the second/third.

Would love that move... But its never been Tomlin's fashion. Seems like they waste absolutely zero time gettin that card to the fuckin podium hair-on-fire every time.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

FWIW, out of those guys I'd take Peppers. I'm with BB in that his part-time role is very concerning. The on-field "above-the-neck" issues are prevalent.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Exactly. So if the THC was there and they didn't know it right away, why is it being reported as only a diluted sample this far removed from the combine? Shouldn't they know whether or not the sample had a banned substance in it by now?

I guess as a CYA move they don't indicate if the diluted sample was dirty or not, they just say diluted = failed.

I'm not in the drug screening business, but looking at the test results that we get here for new hires, and the DOT physicals for the drivers, I do know that whatever is in your pee is measured by percentages and it takes a certain percentage to be considered positive.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I guess as a CYA move they don't indicate if the diluted sample was dirty or not, they just say diluted = failed.

I'm not in the drug screening business, but looking at the test results that we get here for new hires, and the DOT physicals for the drivers, I do know that whatever is in your pee is measured by percentages and it takes a certain percentage to be considered positive.

Good info. Still seems like there is plenty they could do to get rid of this grey area instead of calling it a positive test. Or maybe that's all they want the public to know. The league may know a lot more than what the media does.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

My concern with Williams is more his being a part time player than it is his off-field issues. I just don't think he has the tape to warrant a first round pick. I'm not even sure he has the tape to warrant a second. I think of those three I would probably hold my nose and take Peppers.

I'm pretty convinced that barring injury, no edge rusher taken at 30 would start over Deebo this season. In fact maybe the only draft pick I can see starting would be a slot CB. I believe a talent could beat out Gay after a few games.

Your Williams points...you could be right, I'm not well versed enough to agree or challenge that. I would probably go the opposite...unless there is a player with a 2nd or 3rd rd grade that you really liked, I'd be looking to trade up vs back.

After edge and slot, this team needs depth more than anything else so 8 picks imo is not necessary.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Good info. Still seems like there is plenty they could do to get rid of this grey area instead of calling it a positive test. Or maybe that's all they want the public to know. The league may know a lot more than what the media does.

Agree 100%.

 

[Bridgeburner]

I'm pretty convinced that barring injury, no edge rusher taken at 30 would start over Deebo this season. In fact maybe the only draft pick I can see starting would be a slot CB. I believe a talent could beat out Gay after a few games.

Your Williams points...you could be right, I'm not well versed enough to agree or challenge that. I would probably go the opposite...unless there is a player with a 2nd or 3rd rd grade that you really liked, I'd be looking to trade up vs back.

After edge and slot, this team needs depth more than anything else so 8 picks imo is not necessary.

I think you're probably right about finding an edge guy who would start over Debo this year. I think there are a few that could rotate with him as a rookie though and "maybe" have the experience to catch a little fire in the post-season.

Trading up would be even better. When was the last time we did that, Polamalu?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think you're probably right about finding an edge guy who would start over Debo this year. I think there are a few that could rotate with him as a rookie though and "maybe" have the experience to catch a little fire in the post-season.

Trading up would be even better. When was the last time we did that, Polamalu?

Edge...most of the names we've heard so far at the 30 spot, Lawson, McKinley, and the like...I think all of of them would at least be able to take up some snaps in rotation on the right side to preserve Harrison...if they can't even do that, I would seriously question why are they bothering to take that player.

My thoughts...such a player should be able to take the reins as the starter in '18 after a season under Harrison's wing.

Moving up...yeah, imo they're young enough on both sides of the ball where they can afford to mortgage a pick or 2 to move up and get an impact player in the teens to early 20s.

But as you say...when was the last time they did that...probably was Troy in the 1st rd.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

1.30 - T.J. Watt, OLB Wisconsin
6'4" 252lbs


Combine Grade: 5.88
40 time: 4.6-4.7 (12th)
Bench: 21 reps (t-8th)
Vert Jump: 37" (t-2nd)
Broad Jump: 128" (t-1st w/ Peppers)
3-cone Drill: 6.79s (2nd)
20-yd Shuttle: 4.13s (t-1st)
60-yd Shuttle: 11.2s (1st)

My analysis: Well I think those of us that were preparing for a shocker can collectively breathe a sigh of relief. For now I really like the pick, but I think after I do some digging I will begin to love it. I wasn't aware that this kid had only played OLB for 1 year. But its tantalizing seeing as how he produced 11.5 sacks, 15.5 TFL, & 6 PD's in just 1 year. At first glance he looks like he has a relentless motor. Something I think can easily be compared to his brother, JJ. I'm a little surprised the Steelers passed on Reuben Foster, but I think ultimately character won out. We've all said at one time or another that we miss the days of Cowher drafting true blue-collar, hard-working, consummate professionals. Well this is that type of player. Scouts & coaches rave about his tireless work ethic. Combine that with what appears to be an insanely high amount of potential, I can easily see why the Steelers made this decision. It will take time for him to groom, but here at Pittsburgh he will have a chance to learn from one of the best to ever do it in the black & gold, James Harrison. Most of us already knew that they wouldn't have had a realistic shot at drafting a plug & play type defender. Shockingly they arguably did have that shot with Foster being available, but that decision would have carried a lot of risk with it.

2nd Rd: Can't say that I was shocked to see Jerrad Davis jump into the 1st. But now that he's gone I'd like to think the Steelers have set their eyes on Zach Cunningham, ILB from Vanderbilt. But its a farcry to think he will fall to the Steelers. They would likely have to trade up to nab him. So with that in mind, I'm fairly confident that the Steelers will draft a DB. The pool is still very deep at multiple positions in the secondary. King, Awuzie, White, Baker, Sanders-Williams, Wilson, Maye, Jones, etc etc.

 

[Psych-Ward]

1.30 - T.J. Watt, OLB Wisconsin
6'4" 252lbs


Combine Grade: 5.88
40 time: 4.6-4.7 (12th)
Bench: 21 reps (t-8th)
Vert Jump: 37" (t-2nd)
Broad Jump: 128" (t-1st w/ Peppers)
3-cone Drill: 6.79s (2nd)
20-yd Shuttle: 4.13s (t-1st)
60-yd Shuttle: 11.2s (1st)

My analysis: Well I think those of us that were preparing for a shocker can collectively breathe a sigh of relief. For now I really like the pick, but I think after I do some digging I will begin to love it. I wasn't aware that this kid had only played OLB for 1 year. But its tantalizing seeing as how he produced 11.5 sacks, 15.5 TFL, & 6 PD's in just 1 year. At first glance he looks like he has a relentless motor. Something I think can easily be compared to his brother, JJ. I'm a little surprised the Steelers passed on Reuben Foster, but I think ultimately character won out. We've all said at one time or another that we miss the days of Cowher drafting true blue-collar, hard-working, consummate professionals. Well this is that type of player. Scouts & coaches rave about his tireless work ethic. Combine that with what appears to be an insanely high amount of potential, I can easily see why the Steelers made this decision. It will take time for him to groom, but here at Pittsburgh he will have a chance to learn from one of the best to ever do it in the black & gold, James Harrison. Most of us already knew that they wouldn't have had a realistic shot at drafting a plug & play type defender. Shockingly they arguably did have that shot with Foster being available, but that decision would have carried a lot of risk with it.

2nd Rd: Can't say that I was shocked to see Jerrad Davis jump into the 1st. But now that he's gone I'd like to think the Steelers have set their eyes on Zach Cunningham, ILB from Vanderbilt. But its a farcry to think he will fall to the Steelers. They would likely have to trade up to nab him. So with that in mind, I'm fairly confident that the Steelers will draft a DB. The pool is still very deep at multiple positions in the secondary. King, Awuzie, White, Baker, Sanders-Williams, Wilson, Maye, Jones, etc etc.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

1.30 - T.J. Watt, OLB Wisconsin
6'4" 252lbs


Combine Grade: 5.88
40 time: 4.6-4.7 (12th)
Bench: 21 reps (t-8th)
Vert Jump: 37" (t-2nd)
Broad Jump: 128" (t-1st w/ Peppers)
3-cone Drill: 6.79s (2nd)
20-yd Shuttle: 4.13s (t-1st)
60-yd Shuttle: 11.2s (1st)

My analysis: Well I think those of us that were preparing for a shocker can collectively breathe a sigh of relief. For now I really like the pick, but I think after I do some digging I will begin to love it. I wasn't aware that this kid had only played OLB for 1 year. But its tantalizing seeing as how he produced 11.5 sacks, 15.5 TFL, & 6 PD's in just 1 year. At first glance he looks like he has a relentless motor. Something I think can easily be compared to his brother, JJ. I'm a little surprised the Steelers passed on Reuben Foster, but I think ultimately character won out. We've all said at one time or another that we miss the days of Cowher drafting true blue-collar, hard-working, consummate professionals. Well this is that type of player. Scouts & coaches rave about his tireless work ethic. Combine that with what appears to be an insanely high amount of potential, I can easily see why the Steelers made this decision. It will take time for him to groom, but here at Pittsburgh he will have a chance to learn from one of the best to ever do it in the black & gold, James Harrison. Most of us already knew that they wouldn't have had a realistic shot at drafting a plug & play type defender. Shockingly they arguably did have that shot with Foster being available, but that decision would have carried a lot of risk with it.

2nd Rd: Can't say that I was shocked to see Jerrad Davis jump into the 1st. But now that he's gone I'd like to think the Steelers have set their eyes on Zach Cunningham, ILB from Vanderbilt. But its a farcry to think he will fall to the Steelers. They would likely have to trade up to nab him. So with that in mind, I'm fairly confident that the Steelers will draft a DB. The pool is still very deep at multiple positions in the secondary. King, Awuzie, White, Baker, Sanders-Williams, Wilson, Maye, Jones, etc etc.

Great write up!

This is a player that we looked at early in the draft process and thought this guy needs to be on their list. Has the size, has the athleticism, has the family pedigree to be a very good pro. Obviously I hope they got the right "JJ" this time, I hope he comes in with a chip because some people (Falcons) don't think he can play edge at this level. I don't think this will be the only edge guy they take in this draft.

I didn't think they would leave a 1st rd grade OLB on the board to take Foster, but I agree it probably wasn't about talent or position. I think my bigger sigh of relief was them not taking Kizer.

Although a bit of a reach according to the big boards, the other edge guy I thought they might take was Jordan Willis...Mayock has been really high on him.

2nd round...I really think it's going to be CB also if they stay at 62, but I wouldn't be shocked to see them go S, or TE.

 

[Bridgeburner]

Honestly, I'm kind of "meh" on Watt. I think he can be a good player for a lot of years but I don't think he's a dynamic pass rusher. Maybe he can develop into one. I don't know. Don't love it or hate it. I can say though that I think he's going to be VERY popular with the fans. I'll be rooting for him.

The second round... like a lot of the DBs still available. Wouldn't hate going inside (as mentioned above) and grabbing Cunningham if he falls. Also wouldn't be totally upset with doubling up on edge. I like Tyus Bowser a lot. I think he's a guy that could check two boxes for us as he has off-ball LB characteristics as well.

 

[Superbelt]

Lots of good safeties available coming up.

Marcus Williams
Budda Baker
Marcus Maye
Obi Melifonwu

Or a WR like JuJu