100-mile Giles Is a Winner!

[jvett77]

Called in to pitch the 8th and 9th and hold a 2-0 lead over the Yankees, the former Phil did his job last night striking out 4, yielding a walk and a solo Bird HR, getting the save, and allowing the Astros to take the first game of the best of 7 NLCS. A great trade for Houston a few years ago as they really only gave up Velasquez, a still unfulfilled starting pitcher for the Phils. Maybe the Phils will go diving for Giles a few years down the road.

 

[Retroram52]

That would be the Phillies way, jvett. Give up a player is an pretty good, have him go to another team and potentially win a championship, and then go dumpster-diving for him when he is all used up. Typical Phillies BS.

 

[jvett77]

That would be the Phillies way, jvett. Give up a player is an pretty good, have him go to another team and potentially win a championship, and then go dumpster-diving for him when he is all used up. Typical Phillies BS.

Well, Giles and the Phils were out of sync so obviously he had to go. Vinnie can still make it, hopefully, plus Eshelman can't be ruled out. I'd love to see Giles in the WS.

 

[jvett77]

Dude was a loser tonight, blown out by Judge and company. Love those fastballs.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

Giles can't handle pressure situations. But still young enough to learn!

 

[TheSnowdog]

Amaro Jr.: "Giles needs more 'seasoning' in the minors"

 

[_phiLLies_]

lollll. people going from not wanting to trade giles, to jocking velasquez, to jocking giles.

of course someone is aimlessly ranting about management too

giles has a negative WAR with the astros in his 2 seasons there. 3-8, 9 blown saves, erratic. he's sporting a 9.00 postseason era/1.80 whip. he has the blazing fastball, but lacks quality elsewhere. that will always be exposed in the postseason.

 

[jvett77]

lollll. people going from not wanting to trade giles, to jocking velasquez, to jocking giles.

of course someone is aimlessly ranting about management too

giles has a negative WAR with the astros in his 2 seasons there. 3-8, 9 blown saves, erratic. he's sporting a 9.00 postseason era/1.80 whip. he has the blazing fastball, but lacks quality elsewhere. that will always be exposed in the postseason.

How do you get negative WAR with Houston? Leaderboards shows Giles WAR at 1.5 and 1.8 for 2016 and 2017.

In his first playoff game vs NY, he struck out 4 of 5 batters he faced while giving up a solo HR and a strategic BB. Not too shabby. He had a 2-inning save vs Boston in the ALDS.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

lollll. people going from not wanting to trade giles, to jocking velasquez, to jocking giles.

of course someone is aimlessly ranting about management too

giles has a negative WAR with the astros in his 2 seasons there. 3-8, 9 blown saves, erratic. he's sporting a 9.00 postseason era/1.80 whip. he has the blazing fastball, but lacks quality elsewhere. that will always be exposed in the postseason.

Amaro said that he needs seasoning! Maybe next year will be an improvement!

 

[_phiLLies_]

WAR varies from site to site pending what specifics they focus on. with that said, his 2016 was clearly mediocre. he wasn't trusted to close, had an era over 4 and was inconsistent. he was on the same path in 2017 until the 2nd half, when he finally got it going. he's given up at least a run in all 4 of his postseason appearances so far. he's not a top tier closer and never will be.

he wasn't needed on the phils and still isn't. like i said last year, velasquez should have been given the closer role to start the season. also said he should have been traded well before that while we could still get a solid return. you ladies got your panties in a bunch and argued like it was the end of the world.

so, personally, i don't think any of you in this thread should have shit to say at any point moving forward about these very players. you know, just my opinion. you made your 'knowledge' on the subject very clear, and it was wrong. don't try to make fun of the phils management or anyone else because of it.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

WAR varies from site to site pending what specifics they focus on. with that said, his 2016 was clearly mediocre. he wasn't trusted to close, had an era over 4 and was inconsistent. he was on the same path in 2017 until the 2nd half, when he finally got it going. he's given up at least a run in all 4 of his postseason appearances so far. he's not a top tier closer and never will be.

he wasn't needed on the phils and still isn't. like i said last year, velasquez should have been given the closer role to start the season. also said he should have been traded well before that while we could still get a solid return. you ladies got your panties in a bunch and argued like it was the end of the world.

so, personally, i don't think any of you in this thread should have shit to say at any point moving forward about these very players. you know, just my opinion. you made your 'knowledge' on the subject very clear, and it was wrong. don't try to make fun of the phils management or anyone else because of it.

You said he will never be a top notch closer. Nobody knows that for sure. certainly not you!

 

[jvett77]

WAR varies from site to site pending what specifics they focus on. with that said, his 2016 was clearly mediocre. he wasn't trusted to close, had an era over 4 and was inconsistent. he was on the same path in 2017 until the 2nd half, when he finally got it going. he's given up at least a run in all 4 of his postseason appearances so far. he's not a top tier closer and never will be.

he wasn't needed on the phils and still isn't. like i said last year, velasquez should have been given the closer role to start the season. also said he should have been traded well before that while we could still get a solid return. you ladies got your panties in a bunch and argued like it was the end of the world.

so, personally, i don't think any of you in this thread should have shit to say at any point moving forward about these very players. you know, just my opinion. you made your 'knowledge' on the subject very clear, and it was wrong. don't try to make fun of the phils management or anyone else because of it.

So, you're saying Leaderboards is incorrect. Which site(s) then show Giles with a negative WAR? If the WAR parameter and other isometrics are subjective, what's the point in these discussions of citing it?

Here's some shit I want to say. It seems you've been anti-Vinnie from the start. I can't figure that out. The Phillies needed starters. Velasquez, at 24, seemed to be starter material in 2016, especially after Phils went 6-2 in his first 8 starts including the 16 K performance. Young and mostly unproven, would we have received a true Redeemer if traded? Why convert him to a closer? Fans are still hoping he can get his act together. He's was 25 in June. Still young enough to mature as a quality pitcher. Wait till he gets full control of his pitches. Cy, baby.

2016 24 g, 131 inn, 8-6, 4.12, 152K, 45bb 1.7 WAR 9 QS Phils 11-13
2017 15 g, 72 inn, 2-7, 5.13, 68K, 34bb 0.0 WAR 4 QS Phils 5-10 April - Aug

 

[jvett77]

_phillies_ needs more seasoning to understand player development.

Not all pitchers begin their careers like Cy Verlander, 35-15, ERA 3.65, by age 23.

Keuchel:
2012 Age 24 3-8 ERA 5.27
2013 Age 25 6-10 ERA 5.15
2014 Age 26 12-9 ERA 2.93
2015 Age 27 20-8 ERA 2.48
2017 Age 29 14-5 ERA 2.90

Arrieta
2010 Age 24 6-6 ERA 4.65
2011 Age 25 11-8 ERA 5.05
2015 Age 29 22-6 ERA 1.77
2017 Age 31 14-6 ERA 3.53

 

[northeastphillyguy]

_phillies_ needs more seasoning to understand player development.

Not all pitchers begin their careers like Cy Verlander, 35-15, ERA 3.65, by age 23.

Keuchel:
2012 Age 24 3-8 ERA 5.27
2013 Age 25 6-10 ERA 5.15
2014 Age 26 12-9 ERA 2.93
2015 Age 27 20-8 ERA 2.48
2017 Age 29 14-5 ERA 2.90

Arrieta
2010 Age 24 6-6 ERA 4.65
2011 Age 25 11-8 ERA 5.05
2015 Age 29 22-6 ERA 1.77
2017 Age 31 14-6 ERA 3.53

Pitchers are developed. These stats verify it!

 

[jvett77]

Pitchers are developed. These stats verify it!

Lol. Nobody goes 32-0! I guess devel has its limits.

 

[jvett77]

So, surely, Vinnie will emerge as a Keuchel or Arrieta.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

So, surely, Vinnie will emerge as a Keuchel or Arrieta.

You will get somebody upset with talk like that. His name starts with a P.

 

[jvett77]

You will get somebody upset with talk like that. His name starts with a P.

Oh, great! Vinnie might also emerge as a Warren Spahn. What a future!

 

[_phiLLies_]

i was a huge fan of trading giles before it even happened. we didn't need a closer. i was a fan of the trade itself. and i certainly wasn't "anti vinnie" from the start. i'm not anti vinnie now. my issue with forum fans in any sports is always the same. if you can't break down simple things, then don't waste time trying to debate.

velasquez doesn't have amazing stuff. he's not some elite prospect who's ready to break out. he's a guy with a blazing fastball, mediocre control, mediocre-average at best secondary pitches and he doesn't have the ability to go deep into games. that will never "develop" into something special, just inconsistency. but if he were pushed into the pen, it would help his game greatly.

giles has a similar makeup. he does not have the tools to be a top end closer. his spotty control and deep reliability on his fastball gives you what you see in the postseason, a guy who can't throw a clean inning.

it's possible velasquez can produce a solid season or two if he remains a starter throughout his career. that's about it. plain and simple.

 

[jvett77]

i was a huge fan of trading giles before it even happened. we didn't need a closer. i was a fan of the trade itself. and i certainly wasn't "anti vinnie" from the start. i'm not anti vinnie now. my issue with forum fans in any sports is always the same. if you can't break down simple things, then don't waste time trying to debate.

velasquez doesn't have amazing stuff. he's not some elite prospect who's ready to break out. he's a guy with a blazing fastball, mediocre control, mediocre-average at best secondary pitches and he doesn't have the ability to go deep into games. that will never "develop" into something special, just inconsistency. but if he were pushed into the pen, it would help his game greatly.

giles has a similar makeup. he does not have the tools to be a top end closer. his spotty control and deep reliability on his fastball gives you what you see in the postseason, a guy who can't throw a clean inning.

it's possible velasquez can produce a solid season or two if he remains a starter throughout his career. that's about it. plain and simple.

When did you want to trade Giles, his first year in 2014 or 2015? The Phils won 73 games in '13 and '14 and there was a slight ray of hope they could do better with Giles so you wouldn't want to dump him in 2014. But in 2015 when the Phillies dive to the bottom with 63 wins became clearer, then the Giles trade became more obvious and he was much more valuable then with two years experience.

You're still not giving guys like Velasquez a chance to develop their pitching style. When you say "he's a guy with a blazing fastball, mediocre control, mediocre-average at best secondary pitches and he doesn't have the ability to go deep into games. ....will never "develop" into something special, just inconsistency." How do you know that? He's 25 years old! many pitcher come into their own at 27 or later. It took Koufax 5 years get his act together. Vinnie is worth a shot. We'll have to wait and see.