Sponsor dumps Brandon Marshall

[Cyder]

This narrative is false and needs to die.

No racial bias in police shootings, study by Harvard professor shows

In that same study the Professor also determined there was racial bias in arrests and interactions with police, just not in police shootings. Also, the entire study consisted of one area (Houston I believe) so I'm unsure how much stock we should put in it.

 

[sonnyblack65]

If he had no weapon, how did he stab the old woman? How did he manage to pull the cop's holster?

Once the suspect is in custody, roughing him up is against the law. When defending the law, it's usually a good idea to follow it.

He wasn't in custody yet, he was resisting arrest with my friend Trooper Chris Zarella was trying to subdue him. He already stabbed a woman, killed a cop and was probably trying to do the same with State Trooper. I would have just shot the fucker

 

[sonnyblack65]

That actually can go both ways. When I worked in the South Bronx I got pulled over all the time after dropping co workers off at the subway stop. The subway stop was near some shady areas (Hunts Point is a known prostitution area) and the cops saw a white guy in a black neighborhood and just assumed I was up to no good. The same happened when I would go to Bushwick, Brooklyn but in those cases the cops were usually right as I was buying "herbal substances"

That's exactly why I was saying to CHF, it's not the color of you skin but the situation

 

[Cyder]

Again, we're talking about incidents where the cops were quite clearly in the wrong. The kid with the pellet gun was driven up on and shot immediately. The guy laying on the ground with his extremities extended was still shot. A driver was shot 4 times for reaching for his license. A guy was choked to death on the concrete after being subdued (he was struggling because he couldn't breathe). People are running away because they fear for their lives.

I would guess those odds may be pretty high if you're white. If you're a person of color, not so much.

Garner was not choked to death on the concrete. Once he was down that cop was holding his head down and had long since let go of the choke hold. He actually died hours later and there was no damage to his throat. There were numerous factors that led to his death one of which was all the cops piled on top of him.

Had he simply taken the arrest, as he had done 30 something times in his life none of that happens.

That being said they should have been able to arrest him without killing him but I blame the Sgt that was in charge of the scene, not the officers she ordered to make the arrest. She ended up getting fired about 6 months or so ago.

 

[Cyder]

That's exactly why I was saying to CHF, it's not the color of you skin but the situation

Especially if the situation is occurring in an area with a high amount of violent crime. Cops are generally not going to be on edge in places that are generally safe.

 

[Broncos6482]

In that same study the Professor also determined there was racial bias in arrests and interactions with police, just not in police shootings. Also, the entire study consisted of one area (Houston I believe) so I'm unsure how much stock we should put in it.

From the article:

The paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, which examined thousands of incidents at 10 large police departments in California, Florida and Texas, concluded that police were no more likely to shoot non-whites than whites after factoring in extenuating circumstances.

 

[Cyder]

From the article:

I remember reading about the study when the Professor put it out but I'm obviously wrong or getting my articles mixed up.

 

[chf]

I'm not saying there is no problem, I'm saying the racial aspect of it put forward by BLM is bullshit.

I was listing his health issues because they were listed as factors in the coroners report. Police also tend to avoid using a taser with overweight folks as they've been known to cause heart attacks with overweight folks so him or anyone else being fat could alter how the arrest is made.

The cops told him he was under arrest and he said straight out he wasn't going to allow that. Find the video of him talking prior to the actual take down. Should the cops have just said "ok, nevermind". I wish I knew that was an option in my knucklehead days.

So there IS a problem, it's just not connected to race in any way? C'mon dude, who are you b'sing? Most cops are good cops. But the numbers % wise (the only stat that's logical) say there IS a racial component.

Until you're willing to admit that, no point in continuing. There are other posters who have issues with how Kaep has handled this, who are at least willing to go that far.

And no, the cops shouldn't have said 'nevermind.' That's a straw man. De escalation techniques are taught by good police forces.

 

[chf]

After figuring in 'extenuating circumstances.' Heh. Devil's in the details. That * is about a mile high. Good grief.

 

[chf]

That actually can go both ways. When I worked in the South Bronx I got pulled over all the time after dropping co workers off at the subway stop. The subway stop was near some shady areas (Hunts Point is a known prostitution area) and the cops saw a white guy in a black neighborhood and just assumed I was up to no good. The same happened when I would go to Bushwick, Brooklyn but in those cases the cops were usually right as I was buying "herbal substances"

So they saw a white guy at a black hooker stroll. Hey at least there was some reason for them to profile you beyond being white. Did you get wrestled to the pavement, cuffed and rode downtown in a van?

 

[Cyder]

So there IS a problem, it's just not connected to race in any way? C'mon dude, who are you b'sing? Most cops are good cops. But the numbers % wise (the only stat that's logical) say there IS a racial component.

Until you're willing to admit that, no point in continuing. There are other posters who have issues with how Kaep has handled this, who are at least willing to go that far.

And no, the cops shouldn't have said 'nevermind.' That's a straw man. De escalation techniques are taught by good police forces.

The numbers say no such thing. Last year police shot 990 people. 49.9% were white, 26% black. When you take in account that blacks at about 13% of the population are responsible for roughly 50% of all violent crimes those numbers are not disproportionate in the slightest.
Violence among young black males is completely out of control. The number one cause of death for black males 14-34 is homicide. That's insane. According to the cdc 49.9% of all black males who die between the ages of 20 to 24 are victims of homicide. For white males that age the number is 8%. The police are not the problem, exceedingly violent neighborhoods are.
You also have to take into account that the police flood violent areas with cops. That is going to lead to increased contact and more issues with people who probably shouldn't be cops to begin with.

 

[Cyder]

So they saw a white guy at a black hooker stroll. Hey at least there was some reason for them to profile you beyond being white. Did you get wrestled to the pavement, cuffed and rode downtown in a van?

After a while the cops started to recognize my car and realized I worked in the area. I was cuffed once as they searched my car. But then again I actually treat the cops with respect and make sure not to do anything that my provoke a reaction.

So know you're implying that every time a black person gets pulled over that's the treatment they get? That's a ridiculous generalization considering everything is videoed by someone these days

 

[chf]

The numbers say no such thing. Last year police shot 990 people. 49.9% were white, 26% black. When you take in account that blacks at about 13% of the population are responsible for roughly 50% of all violent crimes those numbers are not disproportionate in the slightest.
Violence among young black males is completely out of control. The number one cause of death for black males 14-34 is homicide. That's insane. According to the cdc 49.9% of all black males who die between the ages of 20 to 24 are victims of homicide. For white males that age the number is 8%. The police are not the problem, exceedingly violent neighborhoods are.
You also have to take into account that the police flood violent areas with cops. That is going to lead to increased contact and more issues with people who probably shouldn't be cops to begin with.

This debate has been played out a million times on the internet, so no point in doing it again. You're doing 'fun with numbers,' when you have no idea of how the stats work.

Yep, crime is tied to economic status. So, like I posted upthread, in Canada, the problem is the same, but the ethnic group is different. Up here it's natives. More drugs, more broken families, more alcohol, more crime, more violence within their community.

That has nothing to do with the stats on how likely a person is to die in a confrontation with police.

<shrug>

You're arguing a strawman again, btw. I'm not arguing that police shooting is a BIGGER problem that in community black on black violence, or any of the other issues I listed above with natives in Canada.

It's still a problem, and that's why progressive police departments are working on solving it.

If they can admit there's a problem...

 

[Hank Kingsley]

If they can admit there's a problem...

Instead of circling the wagons.

 

[chf]

After a while the cops started to recognize my car and realized I worked in the area. I was cuffed once as they searched my car. But then again I actually treat the cops with respect and make sure not to do anything that my provoke a reaction.

So know you're implying that every time a black person gets pulled over that's the treatment they get? That's a ridiculous generalization considering everything is videoed by someone these days

Strawman again. I NEVER said every time anything. Heh. I'm saying that blacks are more LIKELY to have that happen to them than whites.

And the black guy lying on the ground with his hands in the air, being not just respectful, but downright obsequious, that guy is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. He got SHOT.

You need to have the narrative that the victims are responsible (and to be clear sometimes they ARE!)

But lots of white guys with their drink on are lippy and disrespectful of cops too. They TEND to get the benefit of the doubt though, and not get shot.

 

[chf]

Instead of circling the wagons.

Or in cdumler's example, going out of their way to recruit guys who are the exact opposite. Scary.

 

[CowboyB]

Nothing positive will come out of this movement. It is only bringing negative attention. If your goal is to get your country to hate you, excellent work.

You're an idiot if you think that. Things have already come out of it. But I am not stupid enough to try and force a blind man to see.

 

[CowboyB]

If i made 100 mill regardless of talent or not, I would be kissing the flag every day and singing God Bless America. Where I came from in Europe millions of people got slaughtered in WW2 so glad my parents came here. What does he have to be unhappy and ungrateful about?

You sir, are an idiot.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

You're an idiot if you think that. Things have already come out of it. But I am not stupid enough to try and force a blind man to see.

I don't know dude. You're pretty stupid.

 

[Cyder]

This debate has been played out a million times on the internet, so no point in doing it again. You're doing 'fun with numbers,' when you have no idea of how the stats work.

Yep, crime is tied to economic status. So, like I posted upthread, in Canada, the problem is the same, but the ethnic group is different. Up here it's natives. More drugs, more broken families, more alcohol, more crime, more violence within their community.

That has nothing to do with the stats on how likely a person is to die in a confrontation with police.

<shrug>

You're arguing a strawman again, btw. I'm not arguing that police shooting is a BIGGER problem that in community black on black violence, or any of the other issues I listed above with natives in Canada.

It's still a problem, and that's why progressive police departments are working on solving it.

If they can admit there's a problem...

It's you that seems to have no idea of how statistics or law enforcement work. Are the natives up there shooting each other with the frequency of young black males in the US? Has police being shot gone up 50% up there like it has here in the last year? We have plenty of poor non blacks in this country and they aren't shooting each other at anywhere near the rates of young black males.

You say progressive police departments are working on it? The Chicago PD invited in the ACLU to help with their relations with the black community 2 years ago. Hows that working out? Shootings up over 80% and homicides up over 50% in that time.

When I grew up in NYC we had well over 2000 homicides a year. Last year we had 328. I think I'll listen to the law enforcement professionals that put the policies in place that led to that reduction rather than someone drinking the BLM Kool Aid.

You can continue to ignore the facts and make arguments based on exactly zero facts or statistics but sell that nonsense somewhere else. I'm not buying it.