Great example why Lebron will never reach Michael Jordan status

[tlance]

Without a doubt. It is the same in the NFL. This is why I laughed when someone said Jordan wouldn't average 30 ppg in today's NBA. He'd average 15-20 free throws a game in today's NBA.

I don't blame the NBA -- they are putting out a product for the fans and they want to see scoring.

That is just not true! How is Jordan going to get 20 FTs? You say that officials call everything today. That is 100% perception.

Fact is, teams average fewer FT attempts per game the current era than at any point in the History of the league. Teams averaged 27.83 in 1980, right around 27 in the mid 90s and were down to 23.52 in 2014 (even lower the 2 years before), and 23.4 in 2016.

So tell me, how is it that the officials are calling everything today, when there are significantly fewer FTs attempted now than ever before? Quite simply, they are not. Officials allow a ton of contact on drives to the rim with no call in today's game. In every prior eras (yes even the 90s) those plays generated whistles.

They have done away with non-basketball plays and hand checking. Overall though, the game is just as physical, and perhaps more so during the general flow. Saying the game has gone soft today is pure myth.

 

[lebron23james]

That is just not true! How is Jordan going to get 20 FTs? You say that officials call everything today. That is 100% perception.

Fact is, teams average fewer FT attempts per game the current era than at any point in the History of the league. Teams averaged 27.83 in 1980, right around 27 in the mid 90s and were down to 23.52 in 2014 (even lower the 2 years before), and 23.4 in 2016.

So tell me, how is it that the officials are calling everything today, when there are significantly fewer FTs attempted now than ever before? Quite simply, they are not. Officials allow a ton of contact on drives to the rim with no call in today's game. In every prior eras (yes even the 90s) those plays generated whistles.

They have done away with non-basketball plays and hand checking. Overall though, the game is just as physical, and perhaps more so during the general flow. Saying the game has gone soft today is pure myth.

Trustmeimright should change his name to trustmeimwrong lol

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

That is just not true! How is Jordan going to get 20 FTs? You say that officials call everything today. That is 100% perception.

Fact is, teams average fewer FT attempts per game the current era than at any point in the History of the league. Teams averaged 27.83 in 1980, right around 27 in the mid 90s and were down to 23.52 in 2014 (even lower the 2 years before), and 23.4 in 2016.

So tell me, how is it that the officials are calling everything today, when there are significantly fewer FTs attempted now than ever before? Quite simply, they are not. Officials allow a ton of contact on drives to the rim with no call in today's game. In every prior eras (yes even the 90s) those plays generated whistles.

They have done away with non-basketball plays and hand checking. Overall though, the game is just as physical, and perhaps more so during the general flow. Saying the game has gone soft today is pure myth.

There are fewer free throws because the NBA has become more of a jump shot league. Defenders can't get in the grill of players or a foul will be called, so offensive players have more room to operate. It is why you see teams going to the GS style of player and why you see 3 pointers being shot at a rate never seen before.

Teams have had to adjust the way they play defense in today's NBA. You are acting like it is a big secret. It is no different in the NFL and how they have changed the way a game is called to favor the offense.

 

[tlance]

There are fewer free throws because the NBA has become more of a jump shot league. Defenders can't get in the grill of players or a foul will be called, so offensive players have more room to operate. It is why you see teams going to the GS style of player and why you see 3 pointers being shot at a rate never seen before.

Teams have had to adjust the way they play defense in today's NBA. You are acting like it is a big secret. It is no different in the NFL and how they have changed the way a game is called to favor the offense.

That is not true either. Teams don't shoot more jump shots today than they did back then. They have simply traded mid range jumpers for 3s because advanced analytics tell us that mid range jumpers are the worst shots in basketball by percentages and value.

I wish I had better stats on this, but unfortunately, I could only find data from 2007-2013.

In 2007, teams averaged 15 3s per game and about 24 shots at the rim. In 2013, they averaged 19 3s and 25 shots at the rim. Over the span, sure, 3 point attempts have gone up, but so have attempts at the rim.

Everything in your assumptions are based in myth not supported by the actual data.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

That is not true either. Teams don't shoot more jump shots today than they did back then. They have simply traded mid range jumpers for 3s because advanced analytics tell us that mid range jumpers are the worst shots in basketball by percentages and value.

I wish I had better stats on this, but unfortunately, I could only find data from 2007-2013.

In 2007, teams averaged 15 3s per game and about 24 shots at the rim. In 2013, they averaged 19 3s and 25 shots at the rim. Over the span, sure, 3 point attempts have gone up, but so have attempts at the rim.

Everything in your assumptions are based in myth not supported by the actual data.

So in the past 6 years, they are taking 4 more 3 pointers per game. What do you think the difference will be when you go back 16 years?

i couldn't care less about a difference in the last 5 or 6 years. I'm talking from the 90's to the 2000's to the 2010's. Anyone who thinks the NBA is just as physical now as it was in the 80's and 90's, never watched basketball in the 80's and 90's.

All sports, not just basketball, have skewed rules to protect the players. They have skewed rules to created a more free flowing game to increase offense, as that is what fans want to see.

Go and watch the ESPN documentary on the Pistons from the late 80's, early 90's. You will see more flagrant 2 fouls ( in today's) NBA than you will on every team combined in the NBA this past year. Laimbeer and Mahorn would have been kicked out of most of their games.

 

[lebron23james]

So in the past 6 years, they are taking 4 more 3 pointers per game. What do you think the difference will be when you go back 16 years?

i couldn't care less about a difference in the last 5 or 6 years. I'm talking from the 90's to the 2000's to the 2010's. Anyone who thinks the NBA is just as physical now as it was in the 80's and 90's, never watched basketball in the 80's and 90's.

All sports, not just basketball, have skewed rules to protect the players. They have skewed rules to created a more free flowing game to increase offense, as that is what fans want to see.

Go and watch the ESPN documentary on the Pistons from the late 80's, early 90's. You will see more flagrant 2 fouls ( in today's) NBA than you will on every team combined in the NBA this past year. Laimbeer and Mahorn would have been kicked out of most of their games.

Players are stronger, faster, better...

The game was not more physical, everything was a foul...In fact Jordan who played less playoff games then lebron shot 50 more + free throws

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Players are stronger, faster, better...

The game was not more physical, everything was a foul...In fact Jordan who played less playoff games then lebron shot 50 more + free throws

Jordan went to the free throw line more because he drove to the basket more. If LeBron could shake a defender off the dribble, he'd do the same.

It is why the Pistons went to physically assaulting Jordan, because it was next to impossible from stopping him from getting to the rim. If you look at anyone who can put the ball on the floor and get to the basket, you will find the guys taking the most free throws.

 

[lebron23james]

Jordan went to the free throw line more because he drove to the basket more. If LeBron could shake a defender off the dribble, he'd do the same.

It is why the Pistons went to physically assaulting Jordan, because it was next to impossible from stopping him from getting to the rim. If you look at anyone who can put the ball on the floor and get to the basket, you will find the guys taking the most free throws.

Yeah i agree, lebron doesn't put the ball on the floor and drive to the rim lol

He is more of a finesse 3 pt shooter

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Players are stronger, faster, better...

The game was not more physical, everything was a foul...In fact Jordan who played less playoff games then lebron shot 50 more + free throws

As far as bigger, stronger, faster. This isn't the NFL. NBA players can only put on so much muscle and can only grow so big. That is what makes LeBron so good, because he combines the size and athleticism. That isn't the norm.

If you took the starting 5 for the 90's against the starting 5 from the 2010's. It isn't as if you are going to be looking at 6'7" Centers in the 90's. Or 6' SG.

What has changed is the rules and how the game is called by the refs. They want a faster paced league to keep fans entertained. Fundamentals are not stressed in today's game and half court offenses have been replaced by quicker paced offense who attack before teams can get set.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yeah i agree, lebron doesn't put the ball on the floor and drive to the rim lol

He is more of a finesse 3 pt shooter

Since you seem to think now LeBron is breaking down defenses off the dribble in half court sets -- here is his 2015-2016 offensive highlights. I didn't watch the whole thing, as I didn't feel like sitting through 10 minutes. I watched the 1st 4 minutes and exactly once he beat a guy off the dribble to finish at the rim. The rest were step back jumpers, finishes at the rim on fast breaks and alley oops on the fast break.

There is a reason why LeBron was picked by zero current NBA players and GM as the guy to have the ball in his hands for the final shot between Jordan, Kobe and LeBron. I will let you figure out why that is.

 

[hockey878]

Since you seem to think now LeBron is breaking down defenses off the dribble in half court sets -- here is his 2015-2016 offensive highlights. I didn't watch the whole thing, as I didn't feel like sitting through 10 minutes. I watched the 1st 4 minutes and exactly once he beat a guy off the dribble to finish at the rim. The rest were step back jumpers, finishes at the rim on fast breaks and alley oops on the fast break.

There is a reason why LeBron was picked by zero current NBA players and GM as the guy to have the ball in his hands for the final shot between Jordan, Kobe and LeBron. I will let you figure out why that is.

Haberstroh: Kobe or LeBron better in cluch?

It's mainly due to perception, or as haberstroh calls it "the highlight reel conundrum"

Those numbers are even from long before many of Lebrons biggest shots.

The question is why do you more stock in the opinions of players rather than raw data? The players opinions are manipulated by the media, bias and perception. The final shot stats are just true

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Haberstroh: Kobe or LeBron better in cluch?

It's mainly due to perception, or as haberstroh calls it "the highlight reel conundrum"

Those numbers are even from long before many of Lebrons biggest shots.

The question is why do you more stock in the opinions of players rather than raw data? The players opinions are manipulated by the media, bias and perception. The final shot stats are just true

My opinion is from watching both. It is also from watching the numerous times LeBron hasn't even taken the final shot for his own team (see Kyrie Irvin taking the 3 in game 7 of the NBA finals)

Stats can be manipulated any way you'd like them to be. When your own peers and GM's don't select you, that speaks volumes.

 

[hockey878]

I agree stats can be manipulated, but this one is extremely straight forward.

Also, all the data suggests maybe Kobe should've let others take more shots late in games. MJ certainly got plenty of help from others late in games as well

 

[lebron23james]

 

[Black Adam]

My opinion is from watching both. It is also from watching the numerous times LeBron hasn't even taken the final shot for his own team (see Kyrie Irvin taking the 3 in game 7 of the NBA finals)

Stats can be manipulated any way you'd like them to be. When your own peers and GM's don't select you, that speaks volumes.

Agreed. Numbers can be manipulted to fit an argument, but actually SEEING the games completes the picture...

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

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[TrustMeIamRight]

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Quit embarrassing yourself. LeBron's OWN TEAM had Kyrie Irvin taking the shot with under a minute to go in game 7 of the NBA finals. End of story.

I just posted you Lebron's highlights too. Have you noticed yet that taking players off the dribble is few and far between? He uses his strength in the post to back guys down. He is a freight train on fast breaks. He lacks the handles and ISO moves to be relied on with the game on the line. His best move is a jab step and fade away jumper.

Hell. There is an article today where LeBron states how he is trying to get to MJ's level of greatness. Maybe you know better than LeBron though.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Perfect example. You can make stats say whatever you are arguing. That being said -- we now know why no one chose LeBron with the game on the line.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Quit embarrassing yourself. LeBron's OWN TEAM had Kyrie Irvin taking the shot with under a minute to go in game 7 of the NBA finals. End of story.

I just posted you Lebron's highlights too. Have you noticed yet that taking players off the dribble is few and far between? He uses his strength in the post to back guys down. He is a freight train on fast breaks. He lacks the handles and ISO moves to be relied on with the game on the line. His best move is a jab step and fade away jumper.

Hell. There is an article today where LeBron states how he is trying to get to MJ's level of greatness. Maybe you know better than LeBron though.

No point arguing with him. He's the boards biggest troll and a ridiculous cavs homer. Nobody takes him seriously on these boards.

 

[Black Adam]

No point arguing with him. He's the boards biggest troll and a ridiculous cavs homer. Nobody takes him seriously on these boards.

It's why i can't wait for the NBA season to start again...