QB Situation For All NFL Teams

[Clayton]

Is Keenum an UPGRADE over Sanchez?

Not a big fan

Both about the same imo.

 

[cdumler7]

I Don't see any other way unless they cap it somehow? It's all about supply and demand. Way too many average to below average QBs getting paid big duckettes by desperate teams. There just aren't enough quality QBs to go around.

Seems like teams as smart as some of them can be some of them continue to make the same dumb mistake of overpaying at the QB position just hoping maybe the player becomes something more than they are. I would think the Broncos this past year would show that you don't have to overpay for the QB position to be able to win. You can have terrible QB production as long as other parts of the team are great. If you can't find an above average QB then don't overpay for an average or below average one and work to build up the rest of the team.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Seems like teams as smart as some of them can be some of them continue to make the same dumb mistake of overpaying at the QB position just hoping maybe the player becomes something more than they are. I would think the Broncos this past year would show that you don't have to overpay for the QB position to be able to win. You can have terrible QB production as long as other parts of the team are great. If you can't find an above average QB then don't overpay for an average or below average one and work to build up the rest of the team.

You're spot on. But as we see in FA all it takes is one dance partner to start driving the cost up. Then low level QBs even start making more. Like LTs there just aren't enough coming out of college NFL ready. It is what it is. Wish I had been a mediocre NFL QB.

 

[cdumler7]

You're spot on. But as we see in FA all it takes is one dance partner to start driving the cost up. Then low level QBs even start making more. Like LTs there just aren't enough coming out of college NFL ready. It is what it is. Wish I had been a mediocre NFL QB.

You and me both man. Heck even a back up can make amazing money for not even stepping on the field or taking a hit in practice. Very interested to see when some team goes against the grain and doesn't overpay for the QB position and goes out and wins big time how the league responds. Heck the Broncos might just be that team where they decide to just go with a draft pick and realize they can invest money elsewhere to build around the guy.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The problem for the Raiders and Vikings though will be when the QB's come due their money. We have seen teams with QB's that are decent to good players who are on rookie contracts and can be surrounded by talent do well but when they have less cap space to actually work with to build around the player can they still maintain that high caliber of play to raise everybody else up? Think about it for the Raiders they are going to have Mack and Carr both due in the same year. We are talking 2 guys making more than $20 million a year if they stay healthy and play at a reasonable level. So all of a sudden that eliminates all the big name type players they just signed this off season from being re-signed or adding new younger players.

Two can be managed assuming they hit with draft picks....and the balance is good with 1 on each side of the ball...the issue comes in when you add the young WR Cooper to the mix a yr or so later...you can't manage 3 $20m per and fund the rest of a playoff caliber team, but they will have moved on from Crabtree.

At this point, I wouldn't worry, but the window is always closing on teams, rarely is it opening....once you get a decent QB, the clock is ticking.

PIT...I think most of us realize the playoff window is 2 to 3 more yrs tops...imo 3 yrs is just outside of the time frame to invest high on a QB, but I weathered the gap from Bradshaw to Ben so I suppose I can do it again.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

You and me both man. Heck even a back up can make amazing money for not even stepping on the field or taking a hit in practice. Very interested to see when some team goes against the grain and doesn't overpay for the QB position and goes out and wins big time how the league responds. Heck the Broncos might just be that team where they decide to just go with a draft pick and realize they can invest money elsewhere to build around the guy.

They could? But then 4 years from now that QB wants to get paid. Plus all the star defenders that got them there. It's a vicious cycle. Teams that can manage the cap with more quality mid level guys have the longevity.

Good luck with the QB situation. Glad the Pats are set at least right now? I Like Jimmy G just need to get him some more playing time to see if he can take the reigns? Who knows we might find out the start of this season? Otherwise we can wait one or two more drafts for looking for TBs replacement. Maybe another 6th rounder? Wouldn't that be something?

 

[cdumler7]

Two can be managed assuming they hit with draft picks....and the balance is good with 1 on each side of the ball...the issue comes in when you add the young WR Cooper to the mix a yr or so later...you can't manage 3 $20m per and fund the rest of a playoff caliber team, but they will have moved on from Crabtree.

At this point, I wouldn't worry, but the window is always closing on teams, rarely is it opening....once you get a decent QB, the clock is ticking.

PIT...I think most of us realize the playoff window is 2 to 3 more yrs tops...imo 3 yrs is just outside of the time frame to invest high on a QB, but I weathered the gap from Bradshaw to Ben so I suppose I can do it again.

True. I guess for me I'm just interested to see how the Raiders used their money this year. Osemele or whatever his name is played in a more ZBS in Baltimore where the Raiders are more of a PBS. Now he has the size to do fine but it is a major change in philosophy from what he was asked to do before. Irvin stopped being used as a pass rusher a whole lot in Seattle and I think that is because they saw he wasn't developing. Teams figured out he had no counter move and relied on his speed alone to get to the QB. So now switching from OLB to full time DE for Oakland what will that look like for him? As we have seen in the past just because you buy the top FA's in FA doens't mean you are actually a better team.

 

[cdumler7]

They could? But then 4 years from now that QB wants to get paid. Plus all the star defenders that got them there. It's a vicious cycle. Teams that can manage the cap with more quality mid level guys have the longevity.

Good luck with the QB situation. Glad the Pats are set at least right now? I Like Jimmy G just need to get him some more playing time to see if he can take the reigns? Who knows we might find out the start of this season? Otherwise we can wait one or two more drafts for looking for TBs replacement. Maybe another 6th rounder? Wouldn't that be something?

Haha just shoot me now if the Patriots luck into another late round QB to have a HOF career for them.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I Don't see any other way unless they cap it somehow? It's all about supply and demand. Way too many average to below average QBs getting paid big duckettes by desperate teams. There just aren't enough quality QBs to go around.

The QB market it what it is, but the bar is set by the best...what happens is when the good to average guys like Flacco come up for renewal and hit pay dirt...that set the stage for Matt Ryan and Romo and Dalton and a slew of others...the teams that are really over paying for QB...SF, PHI, MIA, NO (yes), ATL, BAL, WAS, HOU.

 

[Clayton]

I would think the Broncos this past year would show that you don't have to overpay for the QB position to be able to win. You can have terrible QB production as long as other parts of the team are great. If you can't find an above average QB then don't overpay for an average or below average one and work to build up the rest of the team.

I agree and disagree with this. I agree with the notion that there is no point in really paying a below average QB but I'm not sure what the Broncos did is really a blueprint for anyone else. They had about 3 years straight where they made every single right move with their defense while still retaining offensive talent.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

True. I guess for me I'm just interested to see how the Raiders used their money this year. Osemele or whatever his name is played in a more ZBS in Baltimore where the Raiders are more of a PBS. Now he has the size to do fine but it is a major change in philosophy from what he was asked to do before. Irvin stopped being used as a pass rusher a whole lot in Seattle and I think that is because they saw he wasn't developing. Teams figured out he had no counter move and relied on his speed alone to get to the QB. So now switching from OLB to full time DE for Oakland what will that look like for him? As we have seen in the past just because you buy the top FA's in FA doens't mean you are actually a better team.

Osemele is a beast...they kept Penn so Os stays at OG I guess....Irvin is a little more curious, I really felt he would got to ATL of JAX because if the system, but it sounds like he wanted to stay on the WC...he doesn't have to be all world...he just needs to keep the blocking honest and balance out Mack...he's not a dbl digit sack guy, doubt that should be his expectation.

 

[cdumler7]

I agree and disagree with this. I agree with the notion that there is no point in really paying a below average QB but I'm not sure what the Broncos did is really a blueprint for anyone else. They had about 3 years straight where they made every single right move with their defense while still retaining offensive talent.

I will admit they did "luck" into a situation where draft picks and FA worked well for building a great/historical defense. At the same time right now I think over 18 QB's are making $16 million or more in this league. I think some teams will look at that and see that they have been paying this QB like they are an All-Star and see they are actually hurting their team more than helping. I know there is a lot of pressure to get the QB situation figured out and having a question mark at the position is probably one of the scariest things for any team but being stuck as a mediocre team year after year while you pay a guy like he is an All-Star when he is average seems like the whole square peg round hole situation. Now given only the teams with security at the HC/GM spot can probably pull something like this off because there is so much pressure to win right away.

 

[cdumler7]

Osemele is a beast...they kept Penn so Os stays at OG I guess....Irvin is a little more curious, I really felt he would got to ATL of JAX because if the system, but it sounds like he wanted to stay on the WC...he doesn't have to be all world...he just needs to keep the blocking honest and balance out Mack...he's not a dbl digit sack guy, doubt that should be his expectation.

He is being paid like one though.

 

[Clayton]

I will admit they did "luck" into a situation where draft picks and FA worked well for building a great/historical defense. At the same time right now I think over 18 QB's are making $16 million or more in this league. I think some teams will look at that and see that they have been paying this QB like they are an All-Star and see they are actually hurting their team more than helping. I know there is a lot of pressure to get the QB situation figured out and having a question mark at the position is probably one of the scariest things for any team but being stuck as a mediocre team year after year while you pay a guy like he is an All-Star when he is average seems like the whole square peg round hole situation. Now given only the teams with security at the HC/GM spot can probably pull something like this off because there is so much pressure to win right away.

I also think that Denver lucked into getting turnovers in the playoffs and getting points from their defense. Teams that generate turnovers eventually run out of steam but the NFL is a really small sample size. I don't think a team will win the Super Bowl with an offense as bad as Denver's offense very often. I do think smart GM work and letting role players like Bruce Irvins or subpar QBs walk in FA is essential in team building assuming that your team knows how to draft and locks up the true elite talent like the Von Millers. Imo, a team is better off throwing money at a great veteran (Ware) than a tier 2 younger talent (Irvin) but maybe thats my baseball thinking kicking in.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

He is being paid like one though.

He has a front end loaded contract...'16 I would agree, clearly being overpaid to be Robin...but he's never been that (dbl digit) guy and OAK had to know that...he's the riskiest of the FA picks...I'm more interested in the DEF sack total over one player's total...that's where I wonder if OAK has done enough...they were pretty avg in the pressure dept and they didn't really add much pressure with Irvin.

 

[Clayton]

He has a front end loaded contract...'16 I would agree, clearly being overpaid to be Robin...but he's never been that (dbl digit) guy and OAK had to know that...he's the riskiest of the FA picks...I'm more interested in the DEF sack total over one player's total...that's where I wonder if OAK has done enough...they were pretty avg in the pressure dept and they didn't really add much pressure with Irvin.

Whats weird about the Irvin signing is that Chiefs and Broncos are likely to run the ball a lot next year and Irvin's a lot of money on a pass specialist. Irvin's account:


"I honestly felt if I stayed in [Seattle's] system, I don't think I would ever be the player I think I can be in this league, being a pass rusher. SAM outside linebacker is cool," Irvin said. "But you can do your job the whole game at SAM linebacker and you have two tackles. I just want to be utilized more and get put in position more to make plays. I really think Jack Del Rio and Ken Norton are going to do a great of allowing me to do that."

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I also think that Denver lucked into getting turnovers in the playoffs and getting points from their defense. Teams that generate turnovers eventually run out of steam but the NFL is a really small sample size. I don't think a team will win the Super Bowl with an offense as bad as Denver's offense very often. I do think smart GM work and letting role players like Bruce Irvins or subpar QBs walk in FA is essential in team building assuming that your team knows how to draft and locks up the true elite talent like the Von Millers. Imo, a team is better off throwing money at a great veteran (Ware) than a tier 2 younger talent (Irvin) but maybe thats my baseball thinking kicking in.

The Bronco SB model is not realistic for most teams....right now BUF and NYJ are on a similar path...I doubt either one becomes a reg. playoff team over the next 3 yrs.

 

[Clayton]

The Bronco SB model is not realistic for most teams....right now BUF and NYJ are on a similar path...I doubt either one becomes a reg. playoff team over the next 3 yrs.

What I do think it illustrates is that while QB play as a whole is probably better than it has ever been in the NFL, oline play is significantly outclassed by dline play across the board. As such, if you have an elite secondary and at least an average pass rush, you are a contender without having much of anything else.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Seems like teams as smart as some of them can be some of them continue to make the same dumb mistake of overpaying at the QB position just hoping maybe the player becomes something more than they are. I would think the Broncos this past year would show that you don't have to overpay for the QB position to be able to win. You can have terrible QB production as long as other parts of the team are great. If you can't find an above average QB then don't overpay for an average or below average one and work to build up the rest of the team.

I hear ya, but the Broncos of 2015-16 are extremely rare, and becoming rarer IMO as we dive deeper into this QB driven league......Its why "Trent Dilfer won a SB" will live in infamy, because its so rare for that to happen, and so difficult to build a team "In Spite" of the QB position

I personally dont think Brock Ossweiler will be a franchise changing type QB, but I also dont blame Houston for going all in on him......Because if THEY believe in him to be that type of player, you have no choice but to go all in,, its just too hard to find these days....I actually dont like any of the Big 3 QB's coming out in this particular draft.....But these franchises desperate for a QB have no choice but to roll the dice, even if they dont love them right away.....It will costs jobs for years to come if one of them turns into an all time great and youre the organization that passed on him......

...I personally like Mike Glennon a lot....Is a First Rounder too much of a cost for a Glennon? Mettenburg? Mccarron? if you really believe he could be a franchise QB? Not in my estimation.....

 

[ATL96Steeler]

What I do think it illustrates is that while QB play as a whole is probably better than it has ever been in the NFL, oline play is significantly outclassed by dline play across the board. As such, if you have an elite secondary and at least an average pass rush, you are a contender without having much of anything else.

It's a rolling time frame...using the Jets as an example...DEF is almost top shelf, but the OFC is probably a few pcs from playoff caliber...if they buck up and pay Fitz, next year they're going to lose a key pc or two of the DEF so now it's not as good...if you're fortunate enough to land the franchise QB...if you can protect him, year in yr out, with just a decent DEF, you have a shot at making the playoffs.

Everything clicked for DEN last season.