Yeah I am officially done with fighting in the NHL

[Brahmsian]

No, it shows that only 8-10% of concussions are linked to fighting, but the VAST MAJORITY of concussions come from other aspects of the game that have nothing to do with fighting.

Let's say fighting is banned, now what? So roughly 10% of concussions are now removed from the game, but what do you do about the other 90%? Are you saying that it's not possible that even though they reduced concussions 10% by banning fighting, that concussions from cheap shots and other things wouldn't go up by 10% or more now? I believe for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so what would be accomplished by this train of thought?

How about addressing the reason why fighting is needed in the first place, or the other aspects of the game that cause 90% of all concussions, and the vast majority of injuries to players? Why not start there? If you address those issues first, then as a result, fighting will start to be phased out as well.

2 Birds 1 Stone Yo!

Fighting isn't needed first place or anywhere else. Good hard CLEAN checks can go a long way toward punishing dirty players. Making them play honest defense by running plays down their lanes can cut their +/- to the point where the opposition will sit their butts on the bench or release them.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Fighting isn't needed first place or anywhere else. Good hard CLEAN checks can go a long way toward punishing dirty players. Making them play honest defense by running plays down their lanes can cut their +/- to the point where the opposition will sit their butts on the bench or release them.

Like I said before, fans always seem to know how to play the game better than the players or coaches, but that doesn't mean they are right either.

I don't agree that fighting isn't needed at all, but I do agree they need to reduce staged fights, or ones that are meanignless to the game. A good start is by addressing the instigators and agitators, and reducing a lot of needless cheap shots and hits on players.

I know that fighting is "illegal" in the game, but if that is true, why do refs step back and let players fight? You can reduce a good number of fights by having the refs immediately jump in to break it up.

 

[Brahmsian]

Like I said before, fans always seem to know how to play the game better than the players or coaches, but that doesn't mean they are right either.

I don't agree that fighting isn't needed at all, but I do agree they need to reduce staged fights, or ones that are meanignless to the game. A good start is by addressing the instigators and agitators, and reducing a lot of needless cheap shots and hits on players.

I know that fighting is "illegal" in the game, but if that is true, why do refs step back and let players fight? You can reduce a good number of fights by having the refs immediately jump in to break it up.

It's the instigators who would be benched most often if my suggestion were adapted, IMO. If not, why not?

 

[IPostedWhat]

If not, why not?

Why not indeed my friend, why not indeed.

We're all just a group of random fans all placed on this spinning rock we call Earth, just looking for some answers, and ready to point some brownies.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

To be fair, Colton Orr is a scumbag, and a complete waste of skin.

REPORTED!

 

[DragonfromTO]

To be fair, Colton Orr is a scumbag, and a complete waste of skin.

While I don't disagree with that there are still plenty of guys across the league whose on-ice usage/contributions resemble his. And I bet that close to all of their teammates would say the same thing about why those guys are on the team.

When one team has a goon, the opposing team will "have to" dress its goon too. And then if either one fights odds are pretty good that it will be with the other one, and that it will happen early in the game before there's even much of a reason for it. It's like a racket. "Nice little goal scorer you got there... be a shame if anything happened to him". And they basically all ensure each other's roles and jobs this way. Because god knows if they didn't have each other to fight, one of them might beat up someone else that's actually useful instead. Or, you know, they could just play hockey...

 

[DragonfromTO]

Like I said before, fans always seem to know how to play the game better than the players or coaches, but that doesn't mean they are right either.

I don't agree that fighting isn't needed at all, but I do agree they need to reduce staged fights, or ones that are meanignless to the game. A good start is by addressing the instigators and agitators, and reducing a lot of needless cheap shots and hits on players.

I know that fighting is "illegal" in the game, but if that is true, why do refs step back and let players fight? You can reduce a good number of fights by having the refs immediately jump in to break it up.

I don't quite understand how/why "rats" are the ones responsible for staged fights between heavyweights.

 

[IPostedWhat]

I don't quite understand how/why "rats" are the ones responsible for staged fights between heavyweights.

I'm not saying all staged fights are a result of "rats", but it's not like that's never the case either. If a "rat" pulls a cheap shot, and doesn't want to fight, then someone is going to pay the price on that team, so that's when a staged fight happens.

Sometimes it doesn't matter who's the one fighting, the message is sent that the team isn't going to stand for shit like that. It matters to the players, it shows they have a code.

But The "rats" are the players the League needs to pay more attention to in order to reduce a good chunk of injuries that are not a result of fighting. I was kind of blending 2 points into one.

 

[juliansteed]

Perhaps one of the differences is, I am talking about fighting in Hockey. And a lot of others are talking about fighting in the NHL.

I think that is an excellent point and I've thought about this as well. As odd as it might seem, I think fighting serves a more important purpose at lower levels than it does in the NHL. I also think it served a much greater purpose in the NHL decades ago than it does now.

The NHL is a lot more heavily scrutinized than any other hockey league, and thanks to technology it is scrutinized a lot more heavily than its former self as well. Fighting is just 1 of many deterrents to being a douche in today's NHL. Players don't see everything and what they think they see isn't always accurate. But "Big Brother" is always watching. In other leagues if you don't have to fight and the refs don't see it, you're most likely to get away with it. In the NHL, that's really the least of your concerns. If you dodge that bullet, chances are there were multiple cameras on you that can be watched over and over by millions of people showing what you did. If you really did do something douchey than it's either going to be clear and 100% of people will know it, or if you're lucky it won't be quite so clear and on average only 50% of people will know it. So now you're looking at a strong possibility of facing a suspension (yeah I know ...that process needs work but at least the tools are there that haven't always been. ) and/or fine. Or as in Kessel's case, your biggest problem is that you no longer have an unblemished record. Then if you manage to avoid that situation without too much trouble, well you will still be crucified by at least half of the media, fans, players around the league etc. If someone really doesn't care about any of that directly, well they might happen to care about the endorsement deals they could stand to lose as a result. So yeah all of this applies to the NHL but not other leagues (some more than others but not to the same extent as the NHL), but could we actually consider taking fighting out of the NHL but keeping it in lower leagues?

But on top of all of that, the risk of fighting is not magically going to disappear just because it's suddenly "banned" or more illegal than it already is. It's not always clear what people mean when they say "ban fighting" but I'm pretty sure they don't mean a player and all of his descendants should be banned for life from ever playing any form of hockey simply because he got in a fight. I think it's safe to say that cheap-shots are more illegal than fighting ever will be. I agree with whoever it was that said players don't usually make conscious decisions by weighing pros and cons before deciding to take a cheap shot or not. But lets assume that at least some of the time they do. Let's also assume that the fear of penalties, suspensions, fines, blasted by the public, loss of endorsements, loss of roster spot etc. isn't enough to deter him from committing a cheap shot. Let's assume that the only thing that might possibly deter him is the fear of having to fight. Why is he going to assume that even though all of those things aren't enough to deter him from committing a cheap shot, a game ejection (or whatever "banning fighting" means to you) is enough to deter all 5 of the opposing skaters on the other team from sticking up for their teammate/themselves? That seems a bit illogical to me. That being said, none of this gives any reason why it needs to go. I just don't buy some of the arguments as to why it needs to stay either.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Like I said before, fans always seem to know how to play the game better than the players or coaches, but that doesn't mean they are right either.

I don't agree that fighting isn't needed at all, but I do agree they need to reduce staged fights, or ones that are meanignless to the game. A good start is by addressing the instigators and agitators, and reducing a lot of needless cheap shots and hits on players.

I know that fighting is "illegal" in the game, but if that is true, why do refs step back and let players fight? You can reduce a good number of fights by having the refs immediately jump in to break it up.

This was brought up by the NHL some years ago and was quickly shot down by the officials union. They claimed stepping in to stop a fight as it's starting posed to big an injury risk to the officials.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Julian, I'm going to find something you posted to argue about, I'm just too lazy right now.

Raincheck?

This was brought up by the NHL some years ago and was quickly shot down by the officials union. They claimed stepping in to stop a fight as it's starting posed to big an injury risk to the officials.

Just a load of

I'm not saying that applies 100% of the time, but there are plenty of times when they know a fight is going to happen, or when the players first size each other up before they go in to fight that they can intervene. You also see them get right in the middle of a fight or scrum from time to time as well.

Perhaps they should flick the lights on and off a few times to let them know they mean business?

 

[juliansteed]

Julian, I'm going to find something you posted to argue about, I'm just too lazy right now.

Raincheck?

Sounds good. After reading all 200+ posts (not all at once) and typing all that, I'd be too tired and lazy to argue back.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Just a load of

I'm not saying that applies 100% of the time, but there are plenty of times when they know a fight is going to happen, or when the players first size each other up before they go in to fight that they can intervene. You also see them get right in the middle of a fight or scrum from time to time as well.

Perhaps they should flick the lights on and off a few times to let them know they mean business?

Just giving you the answer to your question. The officials union will never allow the league to require it's members to get between two combatants who's gloves are off and getting ready to throw punches.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Sounds good. After reading all 200+ posts (not all at once) and typing all that, I'd be too tired and lazy to argue back.

Oh, you're really asking for it now, you smug bastard you.

Just giving you the answer to your question. The officials union will never allow the league to require it's members to get between two combatants who's gloves are off and getting ready to throw punches.

Maybe they could equip the refs with a spray bottle or one of those net guns? That would be fun to watch and promote player safety. Win-Win.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Sounds good. After reading all 200+ posts (not all at once) and typing all that, I'd be too tired and lazy to argue back.

Don't know if you noticed my post but I mentioned how it has an effect on players throwing good clean checks then looking over their shoulders to see if some cement head is going to take them on. I posted it early in the thread.

In some ways it discourages good hard checks.

Post 112

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

There's too much damned love flying around in this thread about fighting.

I'm out of here.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I'm not saying all staged fights are a result of "rats", but it's not like that's never the case either. If a "rat" pulls a cheap shot, and doesn't want to fight, then someone is going to pay the price on that team, so that's when a staged fight happens.

Sometimes it doesn't matter who's the one fighting, the message is sent that the team isn't going to stand for shit like that. It matters to the players, it shows they have a code.

But The "rats" are the players the League needs to pay more attention to in order to reduce a good chunk of injuries that are not a result of fighting. I was kind of blending 2 points into one.

But how is the heavyweight that takes part in the staged fight "paying the price" anyway? By having to fight he's actually doing something to keep his spot on the team and making himself useful. So who is learning a lesson and how? No one on the team is really being punished when Colton Orr has to do the only thing that he's on the team to do anyway. What's the message being sent? "Don't do dirty shit, cause if you do... a totally different guy on your team will have to do this thing he does all the time and thereby justify his existence and his job"?

 

[Brahmsian]

Julian, I'm going to find something you posted to argue about, I'm just too lazy right now.

Raincheck?




Just a load of

I'm not saying that applies 100% of the time, but there are plenty of times when they know a fight is going to happen, or when the players first size each other up before they go in to fight that they can intervene. You also see them get right in the middle of a fight or scrum from time to time as well.

Perhaps they should flick the lights on and off a few times to let them know they mean business?

I've heard, and read, much worse ideas.

 

[Brahmsian]

But how is the heavyweight that takes part in the staged fight "paying the price" anyway? By having to fight he's actually doing something to keep his spot on the team and making himself useful. So who is learning a lesson and how? No one on the team is really being punished when Colton Orr has to do the only thing that he's on the team to do anyway. What's the message being sent? "Don't do dirty shit, cause if you do... a totally different guy on your team will have to do this thing he does all the time and thereby justify his existence and his job"?

How about taking standings points away from the teams that get into the most fights?

How many should be taken away when is open to debate, but IMO that would lessen the desire
of coaches and FOs to keep "rats" on their rosters.

Minimize the value of fighting to the teams and there would be less of it,don't you think?

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Best way to reduce fighting is with fines, ejections, & suspensions IMO. Make them feel it in the wallet, that probably hurts them more than being punched in the face.