Yeah I am officially done with fighting in the NHL

[elocomotive]

Doesn't the slippery slope that presents worry you? What's the next "easily fixable" 10%?

No, partly because I hate slippery slope arguments. I want to see hard-hitting action done, but in a way that minimizes risk to players, kids, etc. That's it. I think there is a balance to find there and that people will get upset and have their voices heard if it goes too far.

 

[IPostedWhat]

But ignoring an entire 10% is unproductive.

Ignoring the 90% by focusing on the 10% is asinine.

 

[esls79]

It very well may reduce as a result of attacking the 90%. I'm not arguing to the contrary. But ignoring an entire 10% is unproductive.

There needs to be a study done, say in a European professional league. The European league needs to ban fighting alltogether (like a control group) and then statistics from the 90% and 10% in the NHL should really mean something. Without something like this, the cause and effect is merely speculation.

 

[elocomotive]

Well in that case I can solve all the problems by facing Hockey by just getting rid of the sport altogether.

Ok, but in all seriousness, show me hard data, not just "educated" opinions, and I'll be more willing to listen. To say that an average hockey fan with an above average IQ knows all the problems facing the game and how to fix them, yet chooses not to do anything with his "research" is negligent.

To say that an average fan has access to data and information that the League itself or the players don't know about is laughable.

Not trying to be a dick, but it comes across as vastly smug in my opinion.

I did above with the examples of Cooke and Ovechkin that I put together myself. You didn't respond to those examples which where exactly what you asked for earlier. So don't call me smug because I attempted to answer your question by taking the time to provide some data.

I never said the fan has access to information the league doesn't. Frankly, I'm not even sure what you are talking about at this point.

 

[IPostedWhat]

You're taking this a little personal.

How, because of the font I'm using?

 

[elocomotive]

Ignoring the 90% by focusing on the 10% is asinine.

That's NOT what he said and he's said it repeatedly. You're being obstinate now.

The idea that both things can't be looked into at the same time is completely ridiculous since the league repeatedly examines MANY issues of player safety, game rules, etc. on a constant basis.

 

[elocomotive]

How, because of the font I'm using?

No, because you've called others smug, crazy, and negligent in the last few pages when we're just trying to talk about an issue. You seem worked up.

 

[IPostedWhat]

I did above with the examples of Cooke and Ovechkin that I put together myself. You didn't respond to those examples which where exactly what you asked for earlier.

You gave me nothing that shows the whole picture. I'm sure you could find lots of people in the NHL who changed the way they played the game after getting disciplinary action from the League, but that is in now way a decent sample size to base an argument on.

How can you really be sure as to why those players changed, and why don't a larger majority of players have similar results after being disciplined by the League? How do you know the players just didn't get smarter about when or where they decided how to do the same thing on the ice?

I don't mean to poke holes in your research here, I know you must have spent a year pouring over all that data.

 

[IPostedWhat]

You seem worked up.

How, because the font size I'm using?

 

[IPostedWhat]

That's NOT what he said and he's said it repeatedly. You're being obstinate now.

Kevin bacon was NOT in Footloose!

 

[elocomotive]

Kevin bacon was NOT in Footloose!

Lol.

 

[IPostedWhat]

The bottom line is this:

Anyone who thinks fighting doesn't belong in the NHL is not going to change their opinion regardless of what it said or shown to them.

Most people who want to keep fighting in the game also agree that the amount of fighting or certain types of fighting need to be removed from the game.

Everyone in the end though just wants what's best for the player's safety and health, and wants to see the games played without muddy waters clogging it up.

Fat Albert states wholeheartedly that a man without a dick, can't make whoopee.

 

[elocomotive]

You gave me nothing that shows the whole picture. I'm sure you could find lots of people in the NHL who changed the way they played the game after getting disciplinary action from the League, but that is in now way a decent sample size to base an argument on.

How can you really be sure as to why those players changed, and why don't a larger majority of players have similar results after being disciplined by the League? How do you know the players just didn't get smarter about when or where they decided how to do the same thing on the ice?

I don't mean to poke holes in your research here, I know you must have spent a year pouring over all that data.

Sorry I didn't build a data set of every player that has been suspended in the last 3 years. I don't have anything else to do. I tried to answer the question YOU asked, you don't have to be an asshole about it and mock it. Had enough of this...

 

[TiLoBrown]

I really don't think IPW's request for more data was unreasonable

 

[IPostedWhat]

I tried to answer the question YOU asked, you don't have to be an asshole about it and mock it. Had enough of this...

Yes, but you answered with limited, and selective data, that you somehow think provides enough to build a solid argument on.

Anyone can pick and choose certain stats of players and then bend those numbers to support their argument based on what they believe in. Doesn't make it absolute.

And I'll admit, I did take a little shot at you, and it wasn't necessary. But c'mon, like you are going to fight about it.

 

[Krusheasy]

] But c'mon, like you are going to fight about it.

That's what the enforcer is for

 

[DragonfromTO]

So what you're saying is, is that if you had a job that most people don't have, and they try to tell you the things wrong with it, you wouldn't look at them like their crazy?

So 98% of NHL players don't understand the game or what goes on as well as you or Darkstone? The very people who are actually out there game after game, who deal with the issues and the players directly on the ice, have no clue at all about what they are talking about?

Sounds like you guys need a job as consultants for the NHL concerning player safety. The fact that you refuse to do so is negligent in my opinion.

If you asked the players on the Maple Leafs what Colton Orr does for the team when he fights, they would most likely talk about things like sticking up for teammates after dirty plays and turning the momentum when the team is in a rut and needs a boost. But if you take the time to look at last year's boxscores to find out when and how Colton Orr's fights actually happened I suspect that very few (might even be none) of his fights actually fit those scenarios. It doesn't mean that they don't understand the game, but it also doesn't make what they said accurate.

 

[Krusheasy]

I really don't think IPW's request for more data was unreasonable

More Data

 

[IPostedWhat]

If you asked the players on the Maple Leafs what Colton Orr does for the team when he fights, they would most likely talk about things like sticking up for teammates after dirty plays and turning the momentum when the team is in a rut and needs a boost. But if you take the time to look at last year's boxscores to find out when and how Colton Orr's fights actually happened I suspect that very few (might even be none) of his fights actually fit those scenarios. It doesn't mean that they don't understand the game, but it also doesn't make what they said accurate.

To be fair, Colton Orr is a scumbag, and a complete waste of skin.

 

[IPostedWhat]

200!


/thread