Series Thread: 5) Indiana Pacers vs. 4) Philadelphia 76ers

[Mecca]

Oh, I agree. Simmons looks real good. But you also have to qualify it to a certain based on the conference he's in. I seriously doubt that the Sixers are a 3 seed in the West. He also may not be an all star if he were in the West.

I don't remember Ben making the Allstar game.

Am I wrong?

Was he a injury replacement who also got injured and replaced?

 

[Mecca]

He wasn’t an All-Star in the East either.

I didn't think so.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't remember Ben making the Allstar game.

Am I wrong?

Was he a injury replacement who also got injured and replaced?

I don't know. Someone posted that he was an all star and I just went with it. I honestly didn't pay enough attention to the all star game to be able to tell you who was.

I know Lebron and Steph were there. lol

 

[knowyourenemy]

When I watch them, I don't see as big a gap as some want to claim.

Ingram is a better shooter and at least as good, if not better defensively (although he's still too damn skinny to be as good as he can be). Simmons is a better passer and has better handles (but Ingram has filled in quite capably at the point a few times when Lonzo has been out).

Rebounding edge goes to Simmons. But again, Ingram's weight hurts him here too.

As I've said all along, I think they both have holes that need to be addressed and I think if they do, both are going to make their fans and teams very happy.

Without getting into it on all the details, I generally agree, except I don’t think Ingram is as good as or better than Simmons defensively. Simmons’ defense is probably the most underrated part of his game. He’s quite good on that side of the ball. I’d venture to say better than Ingram but I’d call it at worst even.

 

[trojanfan12]

I wanna see a FT competition between Lonzo & blind folded Steph. My money's on Steph.

Lonzo really, really, really needs to work on those damn free throws. I don't care if he never improves his 3 point shot if he'll fix the damn free throws.

 

[trojanfan12]

Without getting into it on all the details, I generally agree, except I don’t think Ingram is as good as or better than Simmons defensively. Simmons’ defense is probably the most underrated part of his game. He’s quite good on that side of the ball. I’d venture to say better than Ingram but I’d call it at worst even.

True, I think Ingram is at least close. The difference is, as @Mecca has pointed out, "Simmons has a grown mans body, while Ingram needs to be on a 1,000 cheeseburgers a day diet."

Ingram is a very good defender when he can use his length and quickness. But in the post, he gets bumped out of position too easily. I don't see that happen to Simmons.

 

[Wamu]

Lonzo really, really, really needs to work on those damn free throws. I don't care if he never improves his 3 point shot if he'll fix the damn free throws.

There's no doubt about that. And he'll be a liability on the court in close games if he doesn't improve. It would be different if he was a 4 or 5 but it's never good when a PG struggles @ the line.

 

[trojanfan12]

There's no doubt about that. And he'll be a liability on the court in close games if he doesn't improve. It would be different if he was a 4 or 5 but it's never good when a PG struggles @ the line.

Yep. I'm not putting it all on Lonzo, because the Lakers as a team were terrible from the free throw line. I think they were last or next to last in team free throw percentage. I can think of at least 5-7 games they lost because of free throw shooting.

Not too big a deal in a season that was about development rather than wins. But going forward, when they are looking for wins and battling for playoff position, it will be a very big deal.

And your point guard can't be shooting 46% or whatever it was from the line.

 

[knowyourenemy]

True, I think Ingram is at least close. The difference is, as @Mecca has pointed out, "Simmons has a grown mans body, while Ingram needs to be on a 1,000 cheeseburgers a day diet."

Ingram is a very good defender when he can use his length and quickness. But in the post, he gets bumped out of position too easily. I don't see that happen to Simmons.

Yeah. You see all the potential defensively with Ingram. It’ll be interesting to see how he progresses there. I took a quick look at the advanced stats and they seem to favor Simmons but I also tend to think those numbers can be skewed quite a bit by the player’s team. Sometimes you’ve got to just go by the eye test.

 

[Wamu]

Yep. I'm not putting it all on Lonzo, because the Lakers as a team were terrible from the free throw line. I think they were last or next to last in team free throw percentage. I can think of at least 5-7 games they lost because of free throw shooting.

Not too big a deal in a season that was about development rather than wins. But going forward, when they are looking for wins and battling for playoff position, it will be a very big deal.

And your point guard can't be shooting 46% or whatever it was from the line.

I just hope his idiot dad doesn't get him wrapped up in some stupid shit. He needs to work on his game.

 

[CitySushi]

Warriors gonna be in a tough spot for the draft. They're going to have some big needs considering Javale, Zaza, Looney and West are all going to be free agents. It's very possible that the Warriors don't retain any of them. Hopefully Damian Jones will be able to step up to a backup C role and we can sign a vet. Bell should be the primary backup PF next year.

McCaw and Nick Young are also Free Agents.

My draft guy this year: Shake Milton.

I could see him being a Bob Myers type guy. 6'6" PG/SG/SF combo guy. Good off the dribble, looks like he has a really solid shooting form and he's a creator on offense. His versatility is something the Warriors covet in guys.

 

[Mecca]

Warriors gonna be in a tough spot for the draft. They're going to have some big needs considering Javale, Zaza, Looney and West are all going to be free agents. It's very possible that the Warriors don't retain any of them. Hopefully Damian Jones will be able to step up to a backup C role and we can sign a vet. Bell should be the primary backup PF next year.

McCaw and Nick Young are also Free Agents.

My draft guy this year: Shake Milton.

I could see him being a Bob Myers type guy. 6'6" PG/SG/SF combo guy. Good off the dribble, looks like he has a really solid shooting form and he's a creator on offense. His versatility is something the Warriors covet in guys.

I like Shake.

I have seen Brunson mentioned too and even Diallo.

 

[CitySushi]

I like Shake.

I have seen Brunson mentioned too and even Diallo.

I think Brunson will go before the Warriors get to him. I would be ok with Diallo too, but I think he still has a ways to go to being an offensive contributor. I love his energy, his defense and his athleticism which could be good for a semi-lethargic team like the Warriors.

 

[Taddy Mason]

He wasn’t an All-Star in the East either.

even after they needed a dozen replacements.

 

[Mecca]

I think Brunson will go before the Warriors get to him. I would be ok with Diallo too, but I think he still has a ways to go to being an offensive contributor. I love his energy, his defense and his athleticism which could be good for a semi-lethargic team like the Warriors.

What about Bates-Diop?

 

[knowyourenemy]

Are we really that sold on Ayton?

If I may :

Ayton 1172 mpg, 32.6 PER, 0.65 TS%, 0.625 eFG%, 0.424 FTr, 666 PProd, 21.4 TRB%, 10.2 AST%, 1.0 STL%, 6.1 BLK%, 11.3 TOV%, 26.6 USG%, 5.5 OWS, 2.1 DWS, 7.6 WS, 0.258 WS/40, 6.9 OBPM, 4.0 DBPM, 10.9 BPM

XXXXX 1143 mpg, 30.7 PER, 0.641 TS%, 0.664 eFG%, .462 FTr, 609 PProd, 16.6 TRB%, 9.4 AST%, 1.5 STL%, 4.5 BLK%, 15.6 TOV%, 27.6 USG%, 4.5 OWS, 2.2 DWS, 6.7 WS, .235 WS/40, 6.8 OBPM, 4.1 DBPM, 10.9 BPM

Now, I realize single player comparisons are unfair, but after what happened in the tournament, I immediately thought of one player that Ayton reminded me of. That player is listed below with their respective Advanced stats for their Freshman seasons. Now, I'm sure there are similar players that had the same numbers and productive careers. I'm just wondering if we are seeing a similar pattern.

See if you can guess the player.
Then discuss.

In April and May of 2015, people were still discussing Okafor as the first overall pick. By June, Towns had pretty much locked up the #1 pick...but we’ve got a lot of time for teams to evaluate these guys. Perhaps your skepticism about Ayton proves to be prophetic.

 

[flyerhawk]

When I watch them, I don't see as big a gap as some want to claim.

Ingram is a better shooter and at least as good, if not better defensively (although he's still too damn skinny to be as good as he can be). Simmons is a better passer and has better handles (but Ingram has filled in quite capably at the point a few times when Lonzo has been out).

Rebounding edge goes to Simmons. But again, Ingram's weight hurts him here too.

As I've said all along, I think they both have holes that need to be addressed and I think if they do, both are going to make their fans and teams very happy.

Well I'm not surprised that you don't see a big gap between. However you aren't going to find a lot of folks that agree with you, particularly at this point.

Maybe Ingram is better defensively but the metrics sure don't reflect that. Ben Simmons is 4th in defensive BPM and 2nd in defensive win shares. He's 10th in defensive rating.

Now defensive stats are not always perfect indicators of defensive performance because defense requires team effort and the Sixers defense is significantly better than the Lakers on the whole. But I would like to know why you think that Ingram is as good or better than Simmons defensively?

Simmons is either the best or 2nd best player on a 50 win team. Ingram is a promising young player who has shown flashes of being really good but who does not elevate his team, at least this point in his career.

Kevin O'Connor, who wrote a piece 3 months or so ago, comparing Simmons and Ingram and how it was a really tough choice with Simmons getting the slight edge, just came out with his All-NBA team.

Why James Harden Is the MVP

He argues that Simmons could be All-NBA 2nd team but winds up putting him on the 3rd team. It's unclear whether Ingram is best player on his lottery team.

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't remember Ben making the Allstar game.

Am I wrong?

Was he a injury replacement who also got injured and replaced?

He wasn't selected on the All-Star team. They picked John Wall instead.

 

[DJ]

My advice: stop worrying about whether people on the internet like you.

BOOM.

Found it odd when I got those PM's.

 

[DJ]

Well I'm not surprised that you don't see a big gap between. However you aren't going to find a lot of folks that agree with you, particularly at this point.

Maybe Ingram is better defensively but the metrics sure don't reflect that. Ben Simmons is 4th in defensive BPM and 2nd in defensive win shares. He's 10th in defensive rating.

Now defensive stats are not always perfect indicators of defensive performance because defense requires team effort and the Sixers defense is significantly better than the Lakers on the whole. But I would like to know why you think that Ingram is as good or better than Simmons defensively?

Simmons is either the best or 2nd best player on a 50 win team. Ingram is a promising young player who has shown flashes of being really good but who does not elevate his team, at least this point in his career.

Kevin O'Connor, who wrote a piece 3 months or so ago, comparing Simmons and Ingram and how it was a really tough choice with Simmons getting the slight edge, just came out with his All-NBA team.

Why James Harden Is the MVP

He argues that Simmons could be All-NBA 2nd team but winds up putting him on the 3rd team. It's unclear whether Ingram is best player on his lottery team.

Yeah, let's just forget Simmons is on the better overall team with most likely a better coach.