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Giants Signing Older Players Already Backfiring

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Yeah, I forgot about McCutchen. I like him. I'm not sure why he dropped off the last couple years but even if he produces for the Giants the way he did for the Pirates last year that will be very solid.


I'm no scout, but he swings at to much low and away slop lately, he didnt used to very often. If he isnt hot, A RHP that can stick a slider 6 inches wide and 6 inches low can make him look really bad.
 

Cedrique

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I'm no scout, but he swings at to much low and away slop lately, he didnt used to very often. If he isnt hot, A RHP that can stick a slider 6 inches wide and 6 inches low can make him look really bad.
That sounds like "Ryan Howard Disease". But there are a lot of differences between those 2 players. McCutchen is skinnier, more athletic and right handed. McCutchen also seems like a better pure hitter and he can run a little.
 

Montalban

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Yeah, definitely. The sport that really seems to take a toll on people is basketball. People weren't meant to jump up and down on wood/concrete for hours at a time. Plus the people that are naturally good are bigger and taller and it takes even more of a toll on their knees.
I'd think it was football. The average career is 3 years.
 

Montalban

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I'm no scout, but he swings at to much low and away slop lately, he didnt used to very often. If he isnt hot, A RHP that can stick a slider 6 inches wide and 6 inches low can make him look really bad.
Sounds like what happened to Hunter Pence.
 

Cedrique

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I'd think it was football. The average career is 3 years.
yeah, I'm talking about at the recreational level like middle aged guys playing golf and tennis and pick up basketball. I didn't even consider that there might be 50 year old guys out there playing football. If there are, they are in better shape than me.
 

Montalban

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yeah, I'm talking about at the recreational level like middle aged guys playing golf and tennis and pick up basketball. I didn't even consider that there might be 50 year old guys out there playing football. If there are, they are in better shape than me.
Ah, I see. Yes, I used to be able to go out on the court and run all day. Then it became half court basketball. Now its just HORSE with my neighbor's kid.
 

Cedrique

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Sounds like what happened to Hunter Pence.
Yeah, my first thought looking at the Giants lineup is that they have too many free swingers but given they play in more of a pitchers park they might be able to get away with being more aggressive and losing out on some big innings. Just on a talent basis Pence, Posey, McCutchen and Belt looks like a solid middle of the order.
 

JohnU

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I was at my friend's club a couple weeks ago and there was 4 guys that had to be all in their 70's and 80's playing tennis and it was pretty amazing. (I think it was a league for people over 65 or something but they all looked older than that). Granted, it was doubles, on clay and they all had rackets that looked giant that probably weighed next to nothing. Still pretty entertaining to watch. I guess the key to playing sports as you get older is to keep playing people in your same age group.
It is important with aging to understand that healing is different. When you are 24, it's days. When you are 71 like me, it's by the calendar. But not getting too serious about this, the trick to aging is not all that complicated. Walking, or a treadmill, that sort of thing, keeps the knees and hips moving. When those things work, you get good diet and you can do sports a long time. But going to get a heart exam here and there is a good idea.
My issues are with breathing, not physical health. Keeping the weight off helps.
 

Montalban

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Yeah, my first thought looking at the Giants lineup is that they have too many free swingers but given they play in more of a pitchers park they might be able to get away with being more aggressive and losing out on some big innings. Just on a talent basis Pence, Posey, McCutchen and Belt looks like a solid middle of the order.
...And Longoria
 

Cedrique

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...And Longoria
Yeah, forgot him. Based on name recognition and past performance that lineup seems a lot better than some of the lineups they won with recently. A lot of veterans, but not really that old.
 

calsnowskier

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Yeah, forgot him. Based on name recognition and past performance that lineup seems a lot better than some of the lineups they won with recently. A lot of veterans, but not really that old.
And there are a handful of MLB-ready players ready to contribute in major roles if needed this season...

Shaw
Duggar
Williamson
Suarez
Beede
Cyr

...
 

msgkings322

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Yeah, my first thought looking at the Giants lineup is that they have too many free swingers but given they play in more of a pitchers park they might be able to get away with being more aggressive and losing out on some big innings. Just on a talent basis Pence, Posey, McCutchen and Belt looks like a solid middle of the order.
Pence is probably through, sad to say.
 

Cedrique

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And there are a handful of MLB-ready players ready to contribute in major roles if needed this season...

Shaw
Duggar
Williamson
Suarez
Beede
Cyr

...
A couple of those guys are pitchers and looking at the stats I'm not too impressed with the hitters in that group. (but I've never heard of any of them or seen them play-I'm just looking at stats). I think they are better off hoping the old guys stay healthy all year. Which isn't impossible. McCutchen has played about 150-155 games a year his whole career, Longoria has played almost every game the last few years
 

navamind

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They never "signed them". Stop saying this already.
 

calsnowskier

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A couple of those guys are pitchers and looking at the stats I'm not too impressed with the hitters in that group. (but I've never heard of any of them or seen them play-I'm just looking at stats). I think they are better off hoping the old guys stay healthy all year. Which isn't impossible. McCutchen has played about 150-155 games a year his whole career, Longoria has played almost every game the last few years
Jackson is a place-holder in Center. If Duggar does not win the job outright in Spring (still a long shot, but it would not be a shocker if it happens), he will be up by the time the super-2 cutoff passes. He is a defense first CFer. Think a poor-man’s Kiermaier. He does not project as an All-Star, but he should be a solid starter.

Williamson is an older prospect who lost a season to TJ a few years. He has been in Bochy’s doghouse for some unknown reason the last couple years. Untimely injuries have also hurt his career. But this off-season he has totally retooled his swing (he worked intensely with Justin Turners personal hitting coach) and has really opened a lot of eyes this spring. There aren’t enough available ABs at the wings in SF to start the season, but he should get the call once Pence gets hurt and he will likely be given the opportunity to start for good once that happens. He still has an option which kills his chances to open in SF.

Shaw, IMHO, is the Giants #1 prospect. His bat likely plays right now. But his defense likely means he has no future in SF. He was drafted as a 1B but is blocked there by Belt and Posey. He has officially been switched to LF (which he played a lot in college), but is still considered a liability in the field. His bat might be enough to overcome his D, though. But he still sits behind Williamson right now, really only because of age and options.

Beede is pretty much the consensus #2 prospect in the Giants system (typically behind Ramos). He still has options and is currently #7 or #8 on the SP depth chart. It is likely that once he gets his cuppo, he will be done with the minors. He probably has a ceiling as a good #3.

Suarez is probably the #6 on the depth chart. He is not on the 40 yet, but is very polished. He will likely be a victim of the roster shuffle for the next couple years. If not for the 40 or options, he would almost certainly be an MLB mainstay by mid season. But he is enough of a prospect that he will be jacked a bit, likely.

Cyr is a lefty bully arm. Osich and Okert will be given every opportunity behind Smith and Watson first, but Cyr has rocketed up the system over the last couple years. He may get his cuppo this year, and adds depth if needed, but is more likely a name-to-know for 2019.
 

Cedrique

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Jackson is a place-holder in Center. If Duggar does not win the job outright in Spring (still a long shot, but it would not be a shocker if it happens), he will be up by the time the super-2 cutoff passes. He is a defense first CFer. Think a poor-man’s Kiermaier. He does not project as an All-Star, but he should be a solid starter.

Williamson is an older prospect who lost a season to TJ a few years. He has been in Bochy’s doghouse for some unknown reason the last couple years. Untimely injuries have also hurt his career. But this off-season he has totally retooled his swing (he worked intensely with Justin Turners personal hitting coach) and has really opened a lot of eyes this spring. There aren’t enough available ABs at the wings in SF to start the season, but he should get the call once Pence gets hurt and he will likely be given the opportunity to start for good once that happens. He still has an option which kills his chances to open in SF.

Shaw, IMHO, is the Giants #1 prospect. His bat likely plays right now. But his defense likely means he has no future in SF. He was drafted as a 1B but is blocked there by Belt and Posey. He has officially been switched to LF (which he played a lot in college), but is still considered a liability in the field. His bat might be enough to overcome his D, though. But he still sits behind Williamson right now, really only because of age and options.

Beede is pretty much the consensus #2 prospect in the Giants system (typically behind Ramos). He still has options and is currently #7 or #8 on the SP depth chart. It is likely that once he gets his cuppo, he will be done with the minors. He probably has a ceiling as a good #3.

Suarez is probably the #6 on the depth chart. He is not on the 40 yet, but is very polished. He will likely be a victim of the roster shuffle for the next couple years. If not for the 40 or options, he would almost certainly be an MLB mainstay by mid season. But he is enough of a prospect that he will be jacked a bit, likely.

Cyr is a lefty bully arm. Osich and Okert will be given every opportunity behind Smith and Watson first, but Cyr has rocketed up the system over the last couple years. He may get his cuppo this year, and adds depth if needed, but is more likely a name-to-know for 2019.
Yeah, now that I look at it I like Duggar. I'm kind of obsessed with a players walk rate as an indicator. This Duggar seems to be an OBP machine, especially since he will probably get stronger and gain a little power in the next year or two. Shaw could go either way. He's got some great stats but based on the lower walk rate he's probably a little less selective than you'd want. You see some of these guys come up and they are great for the first few months or first season, but then once they are not rookies any more the pitchers realize they don't have to challenge them and their numbers get worse. I just jumped into this thread because I'm bored waiting for the season to start but my team is the Phillies and I have been watching this with Maikel Franco for the last 3 years. Great pure hitter but no plate discipline and his stats have gotten worse in years 2 and 3. It's frustrating to watch.
So based on my crude evaluation methods I like Duggar as a good centerfielder leadoff guy.
 

calsnowskier

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Yeah, now that I look at it I like Duggar. I'm kind of obsessed with a players walk rate as an indicator. This Duggar seems to be an OBP machine, especially since he will probably get stronger and gain a little power in the next year or two. Shaw could go either way. He's got some great stats but based on the lower walk rate he's probably a little less selective than you'd want. You see some of these guys come up and they are great for the first few months or first season, but then once they are not rookies any more the pitchers realize they don't have to challenge them and their numbers get worse. I just jumped into this thread because I'm bored waiting for the season to start but my team is the Phillies and I have been watching this with Maikel Franco for the last 3 years. Great pure hitter but no plate discipline and his stats have gotten worse in years 2 and 3. It's frustrating to watch.
So based on my crude evaluation methods I like Duggar as a good centerfielder leadoff guy.
The thing I really like about Shaw, and this would only be seen if you follow the Giants system somewhat regularly, is his ability to adjust. Every time he got a promotion, he went into a bit of a funk for 3 weeks or so, but then, like clockwork, he went on an absolute tear.

That shows that he is willing to learn. Conversely, it might mean that he learns rather slowly, and COULD have trouble reacting to readjustments by pitchers, which happens much faster at the MLB level.

He has the best pure power in the Giants system, though, and it isn’t even close.
 
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