5,000 Posts for a Flyers Cup in 2018!

[lasgop8]

So after lasts nights game this team proved it could actually play with heart, so if thats the case then it seems to me the real issue left is an identity problem? What team are we and whats our goal this year? Wish we could get that effort every game though.

After last nights game this team showed they could play with heart in the first two periods then right back to the team we've watched all season in the third.If we could get effort like that every night it would be ideal but i wouldn't expect it we've seen this core play a few games like this in the past and then right back to puss hockey.

 

[lasgop8]

IMO it's coaching obviously, but i'm not even totally against the leadership issue. My problem with blaming the leadership group and trading G or Jake is you're getting rid of one of your two best players. Trades where both teams benefit today are so rare. If you deal one of them it's probably for picks/prospects, not a 1st line winger. So you get worse by dealing them. But how do you address a perceived leadership issue? Bring in a proven leader that can play on the bottom lines?

Yes we'd be getting rid of one or two of our best players but what have we done with our two best players the last 6 years. Miss the playoffs 3 of 5 years and first round knock out the other 2 and last place this season

 

[lasgop8]

Last nights first two periods were a thing of beauty. it gives me hope that we can still salvage this season and make a playoff spot.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Yes we'd be getting rid of one or two of our best players but what have we done with our two best players the last 6 years. Miss the playoffs 3 of 5 years and first round knock out the other 2 and last place this season

I agree with Awaz though, WTF motivates this team and why can't we get the consistency? It's just to weird to be a leadership issue, besides I want to think Roo has some control.

 

[lasgop8]

I agree with Awaz though, WTF motivates this team and why can't we get the consistency? It's just to weird to be a leadership issue, besides I want to think Roo has some control.

We have had the same pieces in place through several coaches and several GM's and new ownership with the same results. What else could it be? I would love to have this team play motivated every game but it's just to long that we haven't and for me its process of elimination at this point.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

We have had the same pieces in place through several coaches and several GM's and new ownership with the same results. What else could it be? I would love to have this team play motivated every game but it's just to long that we haven't and for me its process of elimination at this point.

I'd have to say maybe preperation problems within the system, this team is a def Jekyl-Hyde it;s either going to be scary or nice lol.

 

[lasgop8]

Keiffer Bellows scored 6 goals in the world juniors. He is a power forward left wing at 6 foot 201.

We traded down from the 18th in 2016 to get 2 picks which turned out to be Rubstov at 22 and Lebarge at 36; Bellows went 19 to the Isles

We still need a left wing especially a goal scorer with size

good trade or bad??

 

[awaz]

We have had the same pieces in place through several coaches and several GM's and new ownership with the same results. What else could it be? I would love to have this team play motivated every game but it's just to long that we haven't and for me its process of elimination at this point.

Your points are good here, my issue is trading Giroux or Voracek will be a short term step back. I can pretty much guarantee you that. They are 6th and 7th in points this season. You won't be getting Kucherov, Tavares, Stamkos, Bailey, or Mackinnon in return for them. So you have to replace it differently. You could maybe trade one for a stud defender to change the makeup and leadership. They've given up the 3rd fewest 5 on 5 goals in the league this season. If you exclude the joke of a PK, the defense/goaltending is actually pretty good (more on that in a minute). So IMO, you don't need that stud defender. So you need to replace Giroux or Voracek's offensive production, not going to get it in a 1 for 1 swap, because why would the other team do that? So you need to replace it through a 1 for 2 or 1 for 3 trade. I can't think of a deal where a team gave up 2 or 3 regular NHL forwards for 1. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it's pretty rare.

Firing Laperriere has got to be at the top of the list right now. Their PK is, and has been his whole tenure, awful. Clearly they can play defense since their 5 on 5 numbers are good. Couturier and Giroux have shown (pre-Lappy) that they can be good/great PK'ers.

 

[awaz]

Keiffer Bellows scored 6 goals in the world juniors. He is a power forward left wing at 6 foot 201.

We traded down from the 18th in 2016 to get 2 picks which turned out to be Rubstov at 22 and Lebarge at 36; Bellows went 19 to the Isles

We still need a left wing especially a goal scorer with size

good trade or bad??

I wanted Bellows that year pretty badly (for the reasons you mentioned). I was pretty irritated at that trade then and so far those picks look to be pretty poor on the Flyers part. So I would say bad.

Granted, Bellows hasn't played a minute of professional hockey and Rubtsov only got a handful of KHL minutes. They could be a wash or Rubtsov could even be better, we don't know that yet. But as of right now, I don't like that trade.

Laberge is a very fringe prospect at this point. I liked the pick at the time, but since he got lit up on a bull shit hit last season he hasn't been the same player.

 

[awaz]

Hextall did piss me off this week though. Regarding Sushko (who had a fantastic WJC for Belarus as the workhorse of the team):

"He's a big player on that team. They don’t have a ton of ability, so he plays a big role, probably a bigger role than playing another country. But he was playing probably 24, 25, 26 minutes; too much for a forward,"

"He’s a big guy that can skate, has good sense and using their power play and their penalty kill like he did, he did a lot of good things. He’s not going to be that type of a player at the pro level. He’ll be more of a two-way guy that’s not expected to score. You hope they chip in. He did a good job and made a name for himself. Obviously, we knew him and we picked him in the fourth round.”

What a prick. Dude had a great tournament at the highest level of junior hockey and you don't even give him a glimmer of hope at being an offensive player in the NHL? That sets off a lot of alarms in my head regarding Hextall's plan for developing prospects. From benching Konecny for not playing defense, to benching Sanheim for not playing defense, to keeping Morin in the minors because his passing isn't good enough. Is Hextall trying to make these young guys something they're not? I find it very concerning that he's already saying publicly that Sushko is a role-player in the NHL at best. In his draft +1 season, after carrying an undermanned nation on his back on the biggest stage he can right now. Maybe you drafted a gem in the 4th round Ron. What if he could be the Zetterberg or Datsyuk that are all-star level talent gotten way too late in the draft? But no, you develop him in to a bottom 6 guy.

(clipped these from Meltzer: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill...ders-6-4-Hextall-on-WJC-Frost-Update/45/90088)

 

[lasgop8]

Your points are good here, my issue is trading Giroux or Voracek will be a short term step back. I can pretty much guarantee you that. They are 6th and 7th in points this season. You won't be getting Kucherov, Tavares, Stamkos, Bailey, or Mackinnon in return for them. So you have to replace it differently. You could maybe trade one for a stud defender to change the makeup and leadership. They've given up the 3rd fewest 5 on 5 goals in the league this season. If you exclude the joke of a PK, the defense/goaltending is actually pretty good (more on that in a minute). So IMO, you don't need that stud defender. So you need to replace Giroux or Voracek's offensive production, not going to get it in a 1 for 1 swap, because why would the other team do that? So you need to replace it through a 1 for 2 or 1 for 3 trade. I can't think of a deal where a team gave up 2 or 3 regular NHL forwards for 1. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it's pretty rare.

Firing Laperriere has got to be at the top of the list right now. Their PK is, and has been his whole tenure, awful. Clearly they can play defense since their 5 on 5 numbers are good. Couturier and Giroux have shown (pre-Lappy) that they can be good/great PK'ers.

I dont want to match their production in a trade. I would like to get back a top draft pick so that all of our kids can come up together. By the time Frost and Carter and Lindblom etc are at the top of their game guys like Gee Jake and Simmonds will be the ones holding us back due to old age

 

[lasgop8]

I wanted Bellows that year pretty badly (for the reasons you mentioned). I was pretty irritated at that trade then and so far those picks look to be pretty poor on the Flyers part. So I would say bad.

Granted, Bellows hasn't played a minute of professional hockey and Rubtsov only got a handful of KHL minutes. They could be a wash or Rubtsov could even be better, we don't know that yet. But as of right now, I don't like that trade.

Laberge is a very fringe prospect at this point. I liked the pick at the time, but since he got lit up on a bull shit hit last season he hasn't been the same player.

I agree but even if Rubstov and Bellows are a wash we still need a left wing power forward who scores and not a player who plays the middle.

 

[lasgop8]

Hextall did piss me off this week though. Regarding Sushko (who had a fantastic WJC for Belarus as the workhorse of the team):

"He's a big player on that team. They don’t have a ton of ability, so he plays a big role, probably a bigger role than playing another country. But he was playing probably 24, 25, 26 minutes; too much for a forward,"

"He’s a big guy that can skate, has good sense and using their power play and their penalty kill like he did, he did a lot of good things. He’s not going to be that type of a player at the pro level. He’ll be more of a two-way guy that’s not expected to score. You hope they chip in. He did a good job and made a name for himself. Obviously, we knew him and we picked him in the fourth round.”

What a prick. Dude had a great tournament at the highest level of junior hockey and you don't even give him a glimmer of hope at being an offensive player in the NHL? That sets off a lot of alarms in my head regarding Hextall's plan for developing prospects. From benching Konecny for not playing defense, to benching Sanheim for not playing defense, to keeping Morin in the minors because his passing isn't good enough. Is Hextall trying to make these young guys something they're not? I find it very concerning that he's already saying publicly that Sushko is a role-player in the NHL at best. In his draft +1 season, after carrying an undermanned nation on his back on the biggest stage he can right now. Maybe you drafted a gem in the 4th round Ron. What if he could be the Zetterberg or Datsyuk that are all-star level talent gotten way too late in the draft? But no, you develop him in to a bottom 6 guy.

(clipped these from Meltzer: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill...ders-6-4-Hextall-on-WJC-Frost-Update/45/90088)

Id say the shine is starting to fade.

 

[lasgop8]

Flyers 6, Islanders 4: Revenge is sweet

3 and 5 are my favorites

 

[Maverick426h]

Night's like last night are the root of my issue with this team. Where did that come from? Why don't they play like that all the time? If they played like that all the time, where would they be in the standings? What got them to play like that?

It's infuriating. They obviously CAN play like that. Why don't they always play like that?

It's a giant fucking mystery, truly. It seems like we play this way maybe once out of every five, six or seven games on average. Even still, to have three fights in one game is highly unusual. Clearly the recall of Goulbourne was meant to get us playing a harder, tougher game, even if he didn't play.

Well, it worked, but it shouldn't take that much action to make this happen more often. I am speaking to chipping pucks deep and grinding hard on their defense more than I am the fighting. That and finishing their forwards hard in our own zone and separating them from the puck. That's a big reason why people want to see Morin right now too.

 

[Maverick426h]

Yes we'd be getting rid of one or two of our best players but what have we done with our two best players the last 6 years. Miss the playoffs 3 of 5 years and first round knock out the other 2 and last place this season

You really need to stop bringing up the past with Giroux and Voracek. These guys are tied for 6th in the Nhl in scoring today. They score or assist on more of our team goals than I believe any other players do for their teams. If we were to trade one or both of them away, we would be one of the two or three worst teams in the Nhl. We rely heavily on these guys and right now there is no sign of either of them slowing down. In fact, they are both white hot, so I would just ride the wave and try to make the playoffs.

G is already just 10 points shy of last season and we have 42 games to play...Lol These guys are on pace for 98 points, which would be career highs for both. Over the hill!?! Getting old and losing a step? I think not.

If we miss the playoffs again, as of right now, it won't be the fault of either of these guys. They are doing work.

 

[Maverick426h]

I dont want to match their production in a trade. I would like to get back a top draft pick so that all of our kids can come up together. By the time Frost and Carter and Lindblom etc are at the top of their game guys like Gee Jake and Simmonds will be the ones holding us back due to old age

Thanks to the trade with St. Louis, we have the necessary ammo to package some picks and move up in the first round of the 2018 draft if we really like a guy in the top five or ten. That and if we do miss the playoffs, we could still theoretically win the lottery. I still expect us to turn this around and make the playoffs, but we shall see.

 

[lasgop8]

You really need to stop bringing up the past with Giroux and Voracek. These guys are tied for 6th in the Nhl in scoring today. They score or assist on more of our team goals than I believe any other players do for their teams. If we were to trade one or both of them away, we would be one of the two or three worst teams in the Nhl. We rely heavily on these guys and right now there is no sign of either of them slowing down. In fact, they are both white hot, so I would just ride the wave and try to make the playoffs.

G is already just 10 points shy of last season and we have 42 games to play...Lol These guys are on pace for 98 points, which would be career highs for both. Over the hill!?! Getting old and losing a step? I think not.

If we miss the playoffs again, as of right now, it won't be the fault of either of these guys. They are doing work.

Mav Gee and Jake could score 200 points a piece. If you are on a last place team what does that matter if your on a team who missed the playoffs 3 of 5 years what does their points mean. Even if you asked them im sure they would say they'd rather score 20 points if it meant winning a cup.

 

[lasgop8]

Thanks to the trade with St. Louis, we have the necessary ammo to package some picks and move up in the first round of the 2018 draft if we really like a guy in the top five or ten. That and if we do miss the playoffs, we could still theoretically win the lottery. I still expect us to turn this around and make the playoffs, but we shall see.

Who in their right mind would trade a top 5 pick for the guys we got in the St Louis trade.

 

[Maverick426h]

Mav Gee and Jake could score 200 points a piece. If you are on a last place team what does that matter if your on a team who missed the playoffs 3 of 5 years what does their points mean. Even if you asked them im sure they would say they'd rather score 20 points if it meant winning a cup.

These two guys can't do everything. They are the two truly elite players on our team and their job is to rack up the points, lead by example and also be responsible defensively. They are doing that job. What more can they do?

Yes, these guys want to win a Cup, but they need the rest of the team and the coach performing consistently at a high level too to get that done. Konecny just took a step in the right direction last night, but some others need to follow too.