State of the Thunder

[Yo Tee]

Not sure what you want OKC to do.

Last year, they had young talent in Oladipo who looks like a blossoming all star now. THis year they get George and Melo. Their problem isn't talent. It is chemistry and fit. That starts with their point guard.

Their problem is that they think signing aging vets who were good 5 years ago are gonna be good now. They should've been trying to get guys like Jimmy Butler or trying to trade up in the draft to get a good young talent. The issue with that though is the Thunder didn't have any trade value on the team so they are now perennially stuck in this mediocre stage. KD leaving was the worst thing to happen to OKC and OKC fans were pissed because they knew they were fucked without him.

 

[trojanfan12]

TT trade was just an example. Not a trade I think the Thunder would necessarily do.

I know. Funny how these things take off though. Almost starts to feel like you're discussing a real trade.

The point is that adding KCP and Lopez really just gets you back to Randle straight up, because neither KCP or Lopez has future value.

I disagree. They have the same chance to re-sign either of them and Randle. If things continue the way they have so far, they might have a better chance to re-sign KCP or Lopez and Randle than they do of re-signing George.

he does his best work with the ball in his hands attacking the rim. As we have seen, players who do best on the ball don't fit well with Russ.

I don't think I said Randle is a better fit. He's a better player. I know you know the difference, probably just misunderstood my meaning. I said in a previous post that TT would be a better fit because of his experience and the fact that he doesn't need the ball. Randle definitely needs the ball, so the fact that Westbrook doesn't like to share would probably be a deal breaker for him.

My point was more with you saying Randle is way overvalued vs. TT. Randle is/will likely be the better player, That gives him more value.

I don't think any trade involving the Lakers is likely. I'd put those chances at about 2% and that might be generous.

If nothing else, I don't think the Lakers are going to be terribly interested in giving up anything for a player they can likely get for nothing after the season. If they were a playoff contender, then maybe they do it. But they're not, so there's no reason to.

 

[Mecca]

Why is this even an argument? For one, it makes ZERO sense for the Lakers to trade for Paul George right now. If you were gonna do it, the time to do that was last summer when you still had assets like D'lo, a full year's worth of Randle, multiple draft picks, and the rest of the roster ( basically just Clarkson or Ingram) to work with. But now you're too close to getting him in free agency anyway. Plus, they have nothing of real value they are willing to offer. They aren't trading Ingram or Ball. Randle is a midtier player at best. Think Markieff Morris level type of production. Good, not great, and doesn't look like he's going to leap much further from that. And more importantly, his value is hurt dramatically by his free agent status. So all you're left with is Kuzma. I like him a lot but I'm fielding a ton more offers before I ship out Paul George for essentially Kuzma and some NBA flotsam rentals.

And tangentially, its not even the worst thing if OKC loses PG for nothing. The trade (and the Melo deal) is already success because it did accomplish at least one of its goals; convincing Westbrook to sign an extension by showing him they were willing to make moves to contend

All of this.

Randle would have little appeal to OKC.

He is going full mercenary and Presti is not going to break the bank for a guy with this many mental lapses.

Ditto for Brook who is basically the original version of Enes Kanter.

Clarkson would help their bench tremendously.

But, they aren't trading George for that package.

If they can't get a quality return, they are better off rolling the dice on trading for a guy like Lou Williams and risking George walking if they can't make a deep playoff run.

Plus, as you mentioned, all of this was done to retain Westbrook.

They've done that. So, taking back garbage players is unnecessary.

 

[Mecca]

I know. Funny how these things take off though. Almost starts to feel like you're discussing a real trade.



I disagree. They have the same chance to re-sign either of them and Randle. If things continue the way they have so far, they might have a better chance to re-sign KCP or Lopez and Randle than they do of re-signing George.



I don't think I said Randle is a better fit. He's a better player. I know you know the difference, probably just misunderstood my meaning. I said in a previous post that TT would be a better fit because of his experience and the fact that he doesn't need the ball. Randle definitely needs the ball, so the fact that Westbrook doesn't like to share would probably be a deal breaker for him.

My point was more with you saying Randle is way overvalued vs. TT. Randle is/will likely be the better player, That gives him more value.

I don't think any trade involving the Lakers is likely. I'd put those chances at about 2% and that might be generous.

If nothing else, I don't think the Lakers are going to be terribly interested in giving up anything for a player they can likely get for nothing after the season. If they were a playoff contender, then maybe they do it. But they're not, so there's no reason to.

Yeah, I don't see it either.

There is no need to make a desperation move when you can just wait until the Summer.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, I don't see it either.

There is no need to make a desperation move when you can just wait until the Summer.

Exactly.

Best case scenario, the Lakers stay patient, develop the young guys and land 2 top level FA's in the off-season.

Worst case scenario, they stay patient, develop the young guys, don't land any top FA's and are left with very good young talent that ends up taking the OKC, GSW route.

Personally, I'm good with either outcome. I'm enjoying the heck out watching these young kids learn.

 

[CitySushi]

The more I thought about it, there are plenty of workable trades the Lakers could potentially make for Paul George, however I don't think they can complete a trade with the Thunder alone. KCP and Lopez are not attractive pieces to the Thunder as currently constructed, but they can be highly valuable to some other teams. There might be packages out there where a 3 team trade could be completed to add additional assets to the trade on the Thunder side. It may require the Lakers having to take back on a bad contract though. I haven't looked much into it, but I feel like there would be some possibilities out there.

 

[Mecca]

The more I thought about it, there are plenty of workable trades the Lakers could potentially make for Paul George, however I don't think they can complete a trade with the Thunder alone. KCP and Lopez are not attractive pieces to the Thunder as currently constructed, but they can be highly valuable to some other teams. There might be packages out there where a 3 team trade could be completed to add additional assets to the trade on the Thunder side. It may require the Lakers having to take back on a bad contract though. I haven't looked much into it, but I feel like there would be some possibilities out there.

Not only that.

Trading for KCP does nothing for the Thunder.

The Lakers don't have his birds rights.

So, they would need cap space to keep him.

Hint: They don't have any...lol

They are better off keeping George in any scenario that has KCP as the centerpiece.

 

[Mecca]

There’s also the possibility Los Angeles moves him before the trade deadline to a team that’s looking to make a playoff push, but that feels unlikely for a few reasons. To start, whichever team traded for Caldwell-Pope would only receive his non-Bird Rights. Long story short, that means they’d likely need cap space to re-sign him over the summer, as the exception only allows four year deals up to 120 percent of the previous season’s salary with a five percent annual increase

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

NBA Trade Rumors: Paul George Trade Value Hurt By Threat Of Lakers - Lakers Nation

 

[msgkings322]

The Westbrook Effect: Do Players Really Get Better After Leaving OKC?

 

[Mecca]

The Westbrook Effect: Do Players Really Get Better After Leaving OKC?

He hasn't been great this year.

Is he hurt?

Does he feels vindicated now that he has a MVP and taken his foot off the gas pedal?

Are they just a collection of names that don't fit?

He has been guilty of being a selfish player.

But, like Kobe, I don't think it's impossible to play with him.

Just....uncomfortable.

 

[trojanfan12]

He hasn't been great this year.

He has been guilty of being a selfish player.

But, like Kobe, I don't think it's impossible to play with him.

Just....uncomfortable.

Yeah, to play with Westbrook, like Kobe, you need players who are very good, but are willing to let it be "his team." Plus, Kobe's "selfishness" was always a bit overstated, imo. Like MJ, he would pass it (even during crunchtime) when he had teammates he felt he could trust.

Westbrook does't seem to have figured out that it doesn't have to be him all the time and that making the game winning assist can be as satisfying as making the game winning shot.

A big part of the reason Kobe and Pau worked well together was because Pau was a #1 option who didn't mind taking a back seat for a shot at rings.

 

[trojanfan12]

Are they just a collection of names that don't fit?

I think so. Westbrook wants to always be the man, no matter who's on the court with him, Melo still thinks he's the man and PG looks like he doesn't know what the hell his role is.

 

[trojanfan12]

It will most likely be a top 7,

Based on what? There are currently 10 teams that look like they may well end up with records that are the same or worse than Brooklyn.

that alone is more attractive than Randle add in TT and it is easily a better deal.

Randle is younger, better and has more upside than TT and there is no guarantee the Brooklyn pick will be top 10. So, it's not easily a better deal.

I will say that, TT is a better fit for OKC because TT doesn't want the ball, Randle does and they would be polaying with Westbrook. If OKC wants the better player, that's Randle. If they want the better fit, that's TT.

 

[trojanfan12]

This Paul George rental is starting to look like a disaster

I think it looks great so far.

 

[trojanfan12]

Why is this even an argument? For one, it makes ZERO sense for the Lakers to trade for Paul George right now. If you were gonna do it, the time to do that was last summer when you still had assets like D'lo, a full year's worth of Randle, multiple draft picks, and the rest of the roster ( basically just Clarkson or Ingram) to work with. But now you're too close to getting him in free agency anyway. Plus, they have nothing of real value they are willing to offer. They aren't trading Ingram or Ball. Randle is a midtier player at best. Think Markieff Morris level type of production. Good, not great, and doesn't look like he's going to leap much further from that. And more importantly, his value is hurt dramatically by his free agent status. So all you're left with is Kuzma. I like him a lot but I'm fielding a ton more offers before I ship out Paul George for essentially Kuzma and some NBA flotsam rentals.

And tangentially, its not even the worst thing if OKC loses PG for nothing. The trade (and the Melo deal) is already success because it did accomplish at least one of its goals; convincing Westbrook to sign an extension by showing him they were willing to make moves to contend

Agree with pretty much all of this. The only thing I would add is that from a Lakers standpoint, it would only make sense to trade for PG if, after the all star break, the Lakers looked like they had a solid shot at the playoffs.

Outside of that, the best thing, imo, is for them to just stand pat and concentrate on setting themselves up to make runs at top FA's in the off season.

 

[Mecca]

I think so. Westbrook wants to always be the man, no matter who's on the court with him, Melo still thinks he's the man and PG looks like he doesn't know what the hell his role is.

This is spot on.

Melo is shockingly........ineffective.

He needs to go to the bench in favor of Patterson were he can be in the Clarkson, Lou Williams role.

George looks lost.

 

[trojanfan12]

This is spot on.

Melo is shockingly........ineffective.

He needs to go to the bench in favor of Patterson were he can be in the Clarkson, Lou Williams role.

George looks lost.

Yeah, Melo is toast as a starter and #1 option. He should swallow his pride like D-Wade did. He could be OKC's #1 bench option.

PG being lost is why I think they would be more effective with him starting the offense instead of Westbrook. Problem is, Westbrook would never allow it.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Melo is shockingly........ineffective.

He needs to go to the bench in favor of Patterson were he can be in the Clarkson, Lou Williams role.

He wouldn't accept a bench role. His ego is too big and he still thinks he's 26 years old.

 

[Mecca]

He wouldn't accept a bench role. His ego is too big and he still thinks he's 26 years old.

Yep.

Watching him get his shot swatted repeatedly is almost as bad as watching him launch brick after brick or get burned play after play on defense.

Seeing him get caught on the switch during pick and roll last night was some shameful shit.