State of the Thunder

[tlance]

How can you provide facts in a hypothetical situation?

Because my FACTs prove my your HYPOTHETICAL situation is unrealistic.

You are presenting an idea as a potential trade to land PG. multiple people (including Sushi) have told you you are being unrealistic, yet you continue to push forward.

@CitySushi actively tries to get along with everybody and he understands the dynamics of the NBA as well as anybody here. If he is telling you that your scenario is unrealistic, then it is.

Besides, you are vested and clearly unable to be objective.

But go ahead and continue to dig yourself in deeper if you wish. We can come back to this thread if PG is ever traded. I guarantee the return package is something like Sushi's proposal. If the Lakers put something together, it would include Randle, Clarkson and a future pick at minimum. Even then, I think the price will be higher.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Because my FACTs prove my your HYPOTHETICAL situation is unrealistic.

You are presenting an idea as a potential trade to land PG. multiple people (including Sushi) have told you you are being unrealistic, yet you continue to push forward.

@CitySushi actively tries to get along with everybody and he understands the dynamics of the NBA as well as anybody here. If he is telling you that your scenario is unrealistic, then it is.

Besides, you are vested and clearly unable to be objective.

But go ahead and continue to dig yourself in deeper if you wish. We can come back to this thread if PG is ever traded. I guarantee the return package is something like Sushi's proposal. If the Lakers put something together, it would include Randle, Clarkson and a future pick at minimum. Even then, I think the price will be higher.

And once again, my opinions start to aggravate you because in your mind it's unrealistic.

You seem to think an all star type player can only be traded for all star value. Anything else is obsolete.

Never mind the fact Randle and KCP would be two pieces that would fit in perfectly with OKCs rotation without taking away anything from RW or Melo.

Just like assholes, everyone has an opinion. But again, if it doesn't match yours, it's wrong.

 

[tlance]

And once again, my opinions start to aggravate you because in your mind it's unrealistic.

You seem to think an all star type player can only be traded for all star value. Anything else is obsolete.

Never mind the fact Randle and KCP would be two pieces that would fit in perfectly with OKCs rotation without taking away anything from RW or Melo.

Just like assholes, everyone has an opinion. But again, if it doesn't match yours, it's wrong.

I don't think George will return all star value. He will be sold at a discount. You are literally trying to get him for nothing though. Spare parts with no chance of being on the Lakers next season if they bring anybody in. I don't think Randle fits OKC at all. KCP, sure, but only for 1 year. That doesn't help.

You have to give something to get something. And yes, your opinion that Randle and KCP is a realistic offer is wrong. It isn't.

Now I am done here. Nothing else to say.

 

[tlance]

Once KD left, so did the Thunder's chances of continuing to be good. Getting an aging Melo wasn't gonna help either. Westbrook can't do it all by himself. Need to get some actually decent young talent in there to help out and complement Westbrook.

Not sure what you want OKC to do.

Last year, they had young talent in Oladipo who looks like a blossoming all star now. THis year they get George and Melo. Their problem isn't talent. It is chemistry and fit. That starts with their point guard.

 

[trojanfan12]

Also, who are the Lakers adding to make salaries work?

Did you read the entire post?

I'm not sure what the rule would be regarding this, but I could see the Lakers possibly trading Randle, plus KCP or Lopez (more likely KCP) to make the money work, if that's allowed with players they just picked up on 1 year deals. They could possibly throw in a future 1st rounder as well (although, if things go according to plan, that pick will be worth even less than this years Brooklyn pick is likely to be).

 

[trojanfan12]

For the record, I am not saying TT + the pick would get it done, I am simply saying that is an offer the Thunder would surely get that is worth more than Randle and fillers.

I disagree that it's worth more, especially if the Lakers are able to include KCP or Lopez. They'd be getting 2 players that are better than TT.

Without one of those 2 though, I don't think it could be done, because I don't see the Lakers giving up any of the young guys that are expected to be back.

 

[thunderc]

A lot of people are way underestimating what the Thunder could get for PG even a month from now, but it's not happening yet anyway.

 

[bksballer89]

I disagree that it's worth more, especially if the Lakers are able to include KCP or Lopez. They'd be getting 2 players that are better than TT.

Without one of those 2 though, I don't think it could be done, because I don't see the Lakers giving up any of the young guys that are expected to be back.

I just don't get the logic why okc would want kcp or lopez considering both guys are ufa at the end of the year. Unless you're trying to tank/rebuild trading a star player for 1 or 2 expiring contracts doesn't make a lot of sense.

The tristan deal makes more sense because it is a player who they would have under contract for another 2 years, a lottery pick, & possibly another player who has a few years left on their contract

 

[trojanfan12]

I just don't get th for wehe logic why okc would want kcp or lopez considering both guys are ufa at the end of the year.

Probably for the same reason they just brought in 2 guys who are going to be ufa's at the end of the year and the same reason that other contenders would risk trading for a player who will be a ufa even as a 3 month rental.

So they can be a competitive team and hopefully convince then to stay.

The tristan deal makes more sense because it is a player who they would have under contract for another 2 years, a lottery pick, & possibly another player who has a few years left on their contract

Tristan doesn't make much sense at all, imo. They'd be stuck with a guy who is overpaid for 2 years. At least with Randle, they'd get a younger, faster more athletic player who fits their uptempo system better than TT does.

With Randle and KCP or Lopez is that they both sign with other teams for more than OKC is willing to pay them and end up exactly where it looks like they will anyway if they don't make a trade. The ufa's leaving and tryng to find help for Westbrook.

Worst case with TT, PG is gone vis the trade, Melo leaves and they are stuck trying to sign top FA's while being stuck having to overpay TT for 2 years. That sounds like a good deal to you?

 

[bksballer89]

Probably for the same reason they just brought in 2 guys who are going to be ufa's at the end of the year and the same reason that other contenders would risk trading for a player who will be a ufa even as a 3 month rental.

So they can be a competitive team and hopefully convince then to stay.

1) Melo has a player option which he is very unlikely opting out of. He has a player option for 27 mil. He will be on their roster next September. Maybe they buy him out like Chicago did with Wade. Who knows.

2) Melo and George> Lopez and KCP. The ceiling for a team with KCP and Lopez in the west is the 1st round IMO.

3) Last thing is I don't see how Lopez even fits with this roster considering they already have Adams. Neither guy can play PF.

 

[bksballer89]

Tristan doesn't make much sense at all, imo. They'd be stuck with a guy who is overpaid for 2 years. At least with Randle, they'd get a younger, faster more athletic player who fits their uptempo system better than TT does.

With Randle and KCP or Lopez is that they both sign with other teams for more than OKC is willing to pay them and end up exactly where it looks like they will anyway if they don't make a trade. The ufa's leaving and tryng to find help for Westbrook.

Worst case with TT, PG is gone vis the trade, Melo leaves and they are stuck trying to sign top FA's while being stuck having to overpay TT for 2 years. That sounds like a good deal to you?

Well the Tristan deal makes more sense because they would be almost guaranteed a top 10 pick if they insist on the Brooklyn pick. Something the Lakers would not be able to offer them in any deal. Lakers would have had a much better chance of getting a deal done if they had their first round pick.

I think OKC can find better deals from a desperate team thinking they can make a run to the finals if they add George than the Lakers offering them Randle and a few expiring contracts.

 

[bksballer89]

I think the most important thing for OKC if they trade George is to acquire a first round pick that is likely to be top 10 in this year draft

 

[trojanfan12]

1) Melo has a player option which he is very unlikely opting out of. He has a player option for 27 mil. He will be on their roster next September. Maybe they buy him out like Chicago did with Wade. Who knows.

Forgot about that. So, worst case, they end up without PG (which seems likely anyway) while stuck with whatever is left of Melo and overpaying TT for 2 years. Shit, that's even worse than the worst case scenario I had.

2) Melo and George> Lopez and KCP. The ceiling for a team with KCP and Lopez in the west is the 1st round IMO

Based on what we've seen so far, this current OKC team is also looking at a ceiling of a 1st round exit. Also, it would be either Lopez OR KCP along with Randle. Not Lopez and KCP. Where did you get KCP and Lopez from?

3) Last thing is I don't see how Lopez even fits with this roster considering they already have Adams. Neither guy can play PF.

Actually, I think Lopez could, if for no other reason than he has developed a respectable 3 ball. It wouldn't be ideal (especially defensively). But I think he could do it and at least not be terrible.

However, I think that if such a trade were to happen, it would be far more likely to involve KCP than Lopez because the Lakers need Lopez more than they need KCP and the Thunder would need KCP more than they would need Lopez. I only included Lopez in my example because he's the only other guy whose contract could make the money work, that is actually worth a damn.

Maybe Clarkson. I forget what he makes and am too lazy to look it up. OKC may be less interested in him anyway because KCP has more experience.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think the most important thing for OKC if they trade George is to acquire a first round pick that is likely to be top 10 in this year draft

Problem is, that's a very valuable commodity. Who's giving that up for a guy who will likely leave after the season? Are there any playoff caliber teams that are likely to have a top 10 pick, need PG to put them over the top and be able to send enough back to make the money work?

Cleveland because of TT maybe? But there's no guarantee that Brooklyn pick will be top 10.

It also doesn't alleviate the problem of overpaying TT for 2 years.

 

[bksballer89]

Problem is, that's a very valuable commodity. Who's giving that up for a guy who will likely leave after the season? Are there any playoff caliber teams that are likely to have a top 10 pick, need PG to put them over the top and be able to send enough back to make the money work?

Cleveland because of TT maybe? But there's no guarantee that Brooklyn pick will be top 10.

It also doesn't alleviate the problem of overpaying TT for 2 years.

Philly and Cleveland basically. The East is pretty weak. Adding George to that team would make them a very dangerous team come April and May. Dangerous enough that I can picture them in the ECF against the Cavs

 

[trojanfan12]

Well the Tristan deal makes more sense because they would be almost guaranteed a top 10 pick if they insist on the Brooklyn pick.

How do you figure they'd be almost guaranteed a top 10 pick with the Brooklyn pick? We've all said that Brooklyn is likely to come in at about 35 wins. In fact, we've said they should be tanking this year and don't appear to be.

I don't think 35 wins is going to get a top 10 pick.

I think OKC can find better deals from a desperate team thinking they can make a run to the finals if they add George than the Lakers offering them Randle and a few expiring contracts.

Who? It's easy to say "some desperate team" but who? We already covered the Cavs that's the deal that brought this up.

Philly? Why would they break up part of what they've been building in a season where they aren't getting to the finals if they do add George? And do they have a pick that is likely to be top 10?

About the only teams that adding PG would help enough to put them over the top, are the Spurs, Celtics or Minny (if they catch fire). But I don't think any of those teams need him or would have room for him (all 3 have pretty good SF's). But even then, what assets do those teams have that would interest OKC and make the money work?

 

[wildturkey]

Why is this even an argument? For one, it makes ZERO sense for the Lakers to trade for Paul George right now. If you were gonna do it, the time to do that was last summer when you still had assets like D'lo, a full year's worth of Randle, multiple draft picks, and the rest of the roster ( basically just Clarkson or Ingram) to work with. But now you're too close to getting him in free agency anyway. Plus, they have nothing of real value they are willing to offer. They aren't trading Ingram or Ball. Randle is a midtier player at best. Think Markieff Morris level type of production. Good, not great, and doesn't look like he's going to leap much further from that. And more importantly, his value is hurt dramatically by his free agent status. So all you're left with is Kuzma. I like him a lot but I'm fielding a ton more offers before I ship out Paul George for essentially Kuzma and some NBA flotsam rentals.

And tangentially, its not even the worst thing if OKC loses PG for nothing. The trade (and the Melo deal) is already success because it did accomplish at least one of its goals; convincing Westbrook to sign an extension by showing him they were willing to make moves to contend

 

[thunderc]

I think Donovan will be fired soon and then we will see what happens. One thing is for certain, Presti has shown that he is capable of pulling off things that most didn't think possible. The season is not over though and everyone knows they will be a tough out in the playoffs no matter what happens.

 

[tlance]

Probably for the same reason they just brought in 2 guys who are going to be ufa's at the end of the year and the same reason that other contenders would risk trading for a player who will be a ufa even as a 3 month rental.

So they can be a competitive team and hopefully convince then to stay.



Tristan doesn't make much sense at all, imo. They'd be stuck with a guy who is overpaid for 2 years. At least with Randle, they'd get a younger, faster more athletic player who fits their uptempo system better than TT does.

With Randle and KCP or Lopez is that they both sign with other teams for more than OKC is willing to pay them and end up exactly where it looks like they will anyway if they don't make a trade. The ufa's leaving and tryng to find help for Westbrook.

Worst case with TT, PG is gone vis the trade, Melo leaves and they are stuck trying to sign top FA's while being stuck having to overpay TT for 2 years. That sounds like a good deal to you?

TT trade was just an example. Not a trade I think the Thunder would necessarily do.

The point is that adding KCP and Lopez really just gets you back to Randle straight up, because neither KCP or Lopez has future value. OKC isn't trading George for expiring players. If they wanted that, they would just keep George. The Brooklyn pick is still worth more than Randle in trade because of the fact that the player they draft will be on a cheap contract for 4 years and the possibility that it ends up being a significant piece.

I did read your post. I know that you get it. Again, if the Lakers actually wanted to trade for George, they would need to give up an actual asset. The Brooklyn Pick is an asset. Kuzma, Ball and Ingram are assets. I don't think the Lakers would or should trade any of those players, but talking hypothetically like Randle and KCP or Lopez would be enough to get it done is a waste of time.

Lastly, I disagree that Randle fits better than TT. Randle doesn't defend well. Yes he is athletic, but he is not a great shooter and from what I have seen, he does his best work with the ball in his hands attacking the rim. As we have seen, players who do best on the ball don't fit well with Russ.

 

[tlance]

Why is this even an argument? For one, it makes ZERO sense for the Lakers to trade for Paul George right now. If you were gonna do it, the time to do that was last summer when you still had assets like D'lo, a full year's worth of Randle, multiple draft picks, and the rest of the roster ( basically just Clarkson or Ingram) to work with. But now you're too close to getting him in free agency anyway. Plus, they have nothing of real value they are willing to offer. They aren't trading Ingram or Ball. Randle is a midtier player at best. Think Markieff Morris level type of production. Good, not great, and doesn't look like he's going to leap much further from that. And more importantly, his value is hurt dramatically by his free agent status. So all you're left with is Kuzma. I like him a lot but I'm fielding a ton more offers before I ship out Paul George for essentially Kuzma and some NBA flotsam rentals.

And tangentially, its not even the worst thing if OKC loses PG for nothing. The trade (and the Melo deal) is already success because it did accomplish at least one of its goals; convincing Westbrook to sign an extension by showing him they were willing to make moves to contend

Exactly!