Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[j_y19]

If you guys tell me that we'll be able to re-sign Pryor and all the other good 1 year contract free agents we signed this offseason to extensions as well as re-sign our other good free agents that we need to retain - and still be able to sign Cousins to a 25 mil a year contract... then I'll sign off on an extension for Cousins.

The short answer is yes. We are already paying him $24M a year. Is one more $M a back breaker? The real question is can you sign pyror if you don't have a QB that is a known quantity and can get him the ball consistently?

 

[gkekoa]

In FA presumably. Which I might add has been very successful for many teams. Should you blindly throw money around? No. But teams that are afraid of FA are missing out.

I guess Ill just ask this. If we had Joe Flacco or Alex Smith right now on the tag (exact same situation as Cousins lets say). What would you want us to do?

Im not implying anything.

So yes. You want to waste money in FA. Gotcha. It seldom works...it has really worked only once and it was last year for the NYG defense. Too bad they have no OL.

 

[gkekoa]

If you guys tell me that we'll be able to re-sign Pryor and all the other good 1 year contract free agents we signed this offseason to extensions as well as re-sign our other good free agents that we need to retain - and still be able to sign Cousins to a 25 mil a year contract... then I'll sign off on an extension for Cousins.

1- The guys on 1 year contracts may not be worth resigning next year. Let's see how they do in this system.

2- If we sign KC long term, he won't cost us 25 million against the cap this season. That savings carries over to next season.

3- The cap continues to go up. 25 million will be much smaller in 3 years.

4- What makes you think our 1 year deal guys won't be the ones overpaid next season? Very hypocritical.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I'm starting to think SM is a bit overrated as a talent evaluator. Not as any particular problem with him as much as I don't think anybody is really that good at it. So him being wrong on Smith makes sense to me. And I do think he was wrong. Even with this late career success I think Smith is a bad QB. Maybe slightly below average but he just has no upside. I can't imagine being content with him at QB.

As for the Cousins quote. It's interesting he said that but I agree I don't think it means much. Unless he thinks Cousins is just a bad QB I'm not sure why he would be certain he's at his ceiling.

Yep. Improving as a QB involves a lot of improvement in preparation & the mental aspects. That is certainly something that QBs can do well into their 30s. You never know how any given QB will progress. Look at Warner - he was pretty much written off after he played for the Giants & later when he was sharing time w/ Leinart. He want on to have several more solid seasons that eventually helped seal his spot in the HOF.

 

[ehb5]

So yes. You want to waste money in FA. Gotcha. It seldom works...it has really worked only once and it was last year for the NYG defense. Too bad they have no OL.

Oh. Yea that's not true.

 

[skinsdad62]

If you guys tell me that we'll be able to re-sign Pryor and all the other good 1 year contract free agents we signed this offseason to extensions as well as re-sign our other good free agents that we need to retain - and still be able to sign Cousins to a 25 mil a year contract... then I'll sign off on an extension for Cousins.

well we can easily if you knew what our cap was like for the next few years this wouldnt be a question that has to be asked

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I am so sick of this topic. They let him walk and we can sign Pryor, Julio Jones and AJ Green and it won't matter if Colt McCoy is throwing the ball.

 

[Ruzious]

The short answer is yes. We are already paying him $24M a year. Is one more $M a back breaker? The real question is can you sign pyror if you don't have a QB that is a known quantity and can get him the ball consistently?

You're not thinking things through. I'm talking about re-signing these 1 year contract guys to multi-year deals. If they do well, each of them will cost a lot more than this coming year to re-sign. Players who do well aren't going to cost the same in 2018 as they are in 2017, and there's a bunch of players like that. Most good players in 2018 are getting paid significantly more than in 2017. Ya have to factor that in. That's obvious, isn't it? How much the increases are - that's the question I don't know the answer to.

Realistically, Pryor will sign with whoever gives him the best contract offer. This is a business; not a hobby.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

You're not thinking things through. I'm talking about re-signing these 1 year contract guys to multi-year deals. If they do well, each of them will cost a lot more than this coming year to re-sign. Players who do well aren't going to cost the same in 2018 as they are in 2017, and there's a bunch of players like that. Most good players in 2018 are getting paid significantly more than in 2017. Ya have to factor that in. That's obvious, isn't it? How much the increases are - that's the question I don't know the answer to.

Realistically, Pryor will sign with whoever gives him the best contract offer. This is a business; not a hobby.

I don't think there is an argument that if they sign Kirk to a big deal it will have an effect on the rest of the roster. The point is a good QB is by far the most important position on the field and if you can nail down a pretty good one it can take you a long way. Further than a good WR and 2 solid linebackers.

 

[skinsdad62]

You're not thinking things through. I'm talking about re-signing these 1 year contract guys to multi-year deals. If they do well, each of them will cost a lot more than this coming year to re-sign. Players who do well aren't going to cost the same in 2018 as they are in 2017, and there's a bunch of players like that. Most good players in 2018 are getting paid significantly more than in 2017. Ya have to factor that in. That's obvious, isn't it? How much the increases are - that's the question I don't know the answer to.

Realistically, Pryor will sign with whoever gives him the best contract offer. This is a business; not a hobby.

first , all of them will not do well . most likely half will be busts for us as our history suggests . 2nd we will have 60 mil in cap space before any carry over is factored in and the raise in the cap takes effect . we havent cut anyone next year either . so the cap space debating tool carries no wieght for anyone remotely knowing our cap picture . and get this in 2019 it gets better

 

[Breed]

So it is strictly on the QB we had issues in the RZ? This varies from team to team and year to year.

I've never framed the red-zone issue as something that was the fault of one unit, one player, or one coach. I think all these aspects, play-calling, RBs, OL, and QB contributed to our red-zone woes.

As for 32-10, it is a rarity. What if he threw for 44-11? Would that be good enough?

I'd say 44/11 would pass muster. And 32/10 or something real close in the ballpark happens more than you're making it out to. I think you'd have to go back to 2008 before you find a season where less than 2 QBs threw for 32 TDs/10 INTs in a season.

 

[j_y19]

You're not thinking things through. I'm talking about re-signing these 1 year contract guys to multi-year deals. If they do well, each of them will cost a lot more than this coming year to re-sign. Players who do well aren't going to cost the same in 2018 as they are in 2017, and there's a bunch of players like that. Most good players in 2018 are getting paid significantly more than in 2017. Ya have to factor that in. That's obvious, isn't it? How much the increases are - that's the question I don't know the answer to.

Realistically, Pryor will sign with whoever gives him the best contract offer. This is a business; not a hobby.

Ruz, I'm not sure its is you who is not thinking this through. Have you investigated our cap situation? We have the money. Secondly, as DGF pointed out, you don't have a capable QB you go no where. Period. You don't have a capable ILB, you can cover. Finally, don't be so sure about Pryor. Rumors are he got the best offer from Cleveland to stay. He chose to leave because of their QB situation. His success, and legacy, depends on a QB that can get him the ball. That is smart business.

 

[gkekoa]

I've never framed the red-zone issue as something that was the fault of one unit, one player, or one coach. I think all these aspects, play-calling, RBs, OL, and QB contributed to our red-zone woes.

I'd say 44/11 would pass muster. And 32/10 or something real close in the ballpark happens more than you're making it out to. I think you'd have to go back to 2008 before you find a season where less than 2 QBs threw for 32 TDs/10 INTs in a season.

No but you did single KC out for missing "wide open" WRs which I question.

Yes...before Brady, Rodgers, and Manning made it common. Very few QBs in history have done that.

 

[gkekoa]

You're not thinking things through. I'm talking about re-signing these 1 year contract guys to multi-year deals. If they do well, each of them will cost a lot more than this coming year to re-sign. Players who do well aren't going to cost the same in 2018 as they are in 2017, and there's a bunch of players like that. Most good players in 2018 are getting paid significantly more than in 2017. Ya have to factor that in. That's obvious, isn't it? How much the increases are - that's the question I don't know the answer to.

Realistically, Pryor will sign with whoever gives him the best contract offer. This is a business; not a hobby.

Which position is more important, QB or WR? How did Detroit do with Megatron?

 

[Breed]

none of these people will ever be satified with KC . they just move the goalpost like they did last season . the season before i believe KC did pretty well in the RZ

KC did do well in the RZ in 2015. The Skins W/L record against winning teams in 2015 was for absolute shit, but they were a good RZ team. Then in 2016 the Skins beat 2 teams with winning records which I took as a positive sign for KC. Which in large part is why it was so disappointing when the Skins were no better than average in the RZ in 2016.

Going 3/14 in the RZ is as good a reason as any why we started the year 1-2. Going 15/29 over the last 6 weeks, which is great for an NBA 3 pt shooter, but not so great for an NFL team in the RZ. I think contributed to losing 4 of our last 6 games.

And its not moving the goal posts. If the player you're judging/grading. Does very well in one stat one year. Then doesn't do so well in the same stat the following year. Not much changed from 2015 to 2016 for the offense. If anything I think we improved it once Jones and his fumbling was removed. There are various reasons why this might happen, but one of the most obvious ones is injury. That wasn't an issue for the Skins so on to more possible reasons..............Kirk played over his head in 2015.....I discounted that because I don't think Kirk's improved play which started in 2015 was a product of luck. It was more Kirk getting confident, reacting instead of thinking. playing in a system designed well for someone of his skill-set. Mainly though I thought his play in almost every area stayed pretty much the same or improved stat-wise. That said to me that Kirk's not in over his head or doing things he had never done before. On to another possible treason........Kirk's play, along with the play of our OL and RBs. As well as playcalling in the RZ were all sub-par at times. Sometimes an issue came up individually, other times issues came together collectively, but I feel generally speaking I think and I hope. We got hit with buzzard's luck in the red-zone.

Bottom line though is I just don't know what the problem is/was and I feel giving Kirk the next highest contract in the history of the NFL. Even if Stafford and Carr sign bigger contracts 2 minutes after Kirk does. Is not the best thing for the Washington Redskins to do at this time.

If all this means I hate Kirk Cousins, and I don't think it does, but if it does. Than I'm a Kirk Cousins hater.

 

[Breed]

No but you did single KC out for missing "wide open" WRs which I question.

And I'll probably have to do it again as some of you seem to think Kirk has done no wrong. That's simply not the case.

 

[j_y19]

KC did do well in the RZ in 2015. The Skins W/L record against winning teams in 2015 was for absolute shit, but they were a good RZ team. Then in 2016 the Skins beat 2 teams with winning records which I took as a positive sign for KC. Which in large part is why it was so disappointing when the Skins were no better than average in the RZ in 2016.

Going 3/14 in the RZ is as good a reason as any why we started the year 1-2. Going 15/29 over the last 6 weeks, which is great for an NBA 3 pt shooter, but not so great for an NFL team in the RZ. I think contributed to losing 4 of our last 6 games.

And its not moving the goal posts. If the player you're judging/grading. Does very well in one stat one year. Then doesn't do so well in the same stat the following year. Not much changed from 2015 to 2016 for the offense. If anything I think we improved it once Jones and his fumbling was removed. There are various reasons why this might happen, but one of the most obvious ones is injury. That wasn't an issue for the Skins so on to more possible reasons..............Kirk played over his head in 2015.....I discounted that because I don't think Kirk's improved play which started in 2015 was a product of luck. It was more Kirk getting confident, reacting instead of thinking. playing in a system designed well for someone of his skill-set. Mainly though I thought his play in almost every area stayed pretty much the same or improved stat-wise. That said to me that Kirk's not in over his head or doing things he had never done before. On to another possible treason........Kirk's play, along with the play of our OL and RBs. As well as playcalling in the RZ were all sub-par at times. Sometimes an issue came up individually, other times issues came together collectively, but I feel generally speaking I think and I hope. We got hit with buzzard's luck in the red-zone.

Bottom line though is I just don't know what the problem is/was and I feel giving Kirk the next highest contract in the history of the NFL. Even if Stafford and Carr sign bigger contracts 2 minutes after Kirk does. Is not the best thing for the Washington Redskins to do at this time.

If all this means I hate Kirk Cousins, and I don't think it does, but if it does. Than I'm a Kirk Cousins hater.

Breed, I had absolutely no problem with your analysis of the situation. IN fact I agree with most of it. Up until the hesitation over signing KC to a big contract. One stat goes down from one year to the next, one in which you even analyze as a possible result of many factors outside of KC's control, and that alone is enough to let him walk? Even though the rest of his play (record setting) either stayed the same or improved? So what the heck is Plan B?

 

[gkekoa]

KC did do well in the RZ in 2015. The Skins W/L record against winning teams in 2015 was for absolute shit, but they were a good RZ team. Then in 2016 the Skins beat 2 teams with winning records which I took as a positive sign for KC. Which in large part is why it was so disappointing when the Skins were no better than average in the RZ in 2016.

Going 3/14 in the RZ is as good a reason as any why we started the year 1-2. Going 15/29 over the last 6 weeks, which is great for an NBA 3 pt shooter, but not so great for an NFL team in the RZ. I think contributed to losing 4 of our last 6 games.

And its not moving the goal posts. If the player you're judging/grading. Does very well in one stat one year. Then doesn't do so well in the same stat the following year. Not much changed from 2015 to 2016 for the offense. If anything I think we improved it once Jones and his fumbling was removed. There are various reasons why this might happen, but one of the most obvious ones is injury. That wasn't an issue for the Skins so on to more possible reasons..............Kirk played over his head in 2015.....I discounted that because I don't think Kirk's improved play which started in 2015 was a product of luck. It was more Kirk getting confident, reacting instead of thinking. playing in a system designed well for someone of his skill-set. Mainly though I thought his play in almost every area stayed pretty much the same or improved stat-wise. That said to me that Kirk's not in over his head or doing things he had never done before. On to another possible treason........Kirk's play, along with the play of our OL and RBs. As well as playcalling in the RZ were all sub-par at times. Sometimes an issue came up individually, other times issues came together collectively, but I feel generally speaking I think and I hope. We got hit with buzzard's luck in the red-zone.

Bottom line though is I just don't know what the problem is/was and I feel giving Kirk the next highest contract in the history of the NFL. Even if Stafford and Carr sign bigger contracts 2 minutes after Kirk does. Is not the best thing for the Washington Redskins to do at this time.

If all this means I hate Kirk Cousins, and I don't think it does, but if it does. Than I'm a Kirk Cousins hater.

Red zone efficiency changes frequently on every team. It isn't a reliable statistic because of the variation.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Bottom line though is I just don't know what the problem is/was and I feel giving Kirk the next highest contract in the history of the NFL. Even if Stafford and Carr sign bigger contracts 2 minutes after Kirk does. Is not the best thing for the Washington Redskins to do at this time.

I am kind of puzzled over this fascination by some folks over the amt of Cousins extension since 1. we really have no idea about the amt & all indications just appear to show that the Redskins are trying to cheap out on the guaranteed money 2. these constant tags overall increase the overall money that will be given to Cousins - not decrease it & 3. Again - whatever is the highest or second highest amt now will become the 7th, 8th or less highest contract in a few years when other QBs re-sign. This is more about timing than Cousins being considered elite (& the cap situation is not a problem at this time in spite of some of the "sky is falling" type posts you read on this situation).

Oh well - let's see what both parties do between now & July.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Shannon Sharpe breaks down how the Redskins have laughably mishandled Kirk Cousins | FOX Sports

Good take by Sharpe IMO. Bayless - as usual - comes off as a smug a-hole.