Zac and Press Taylor - Next Big Things

[CrashDavisSports]

Zac & Press Taylor: NFL Coaching’s Next Big Thing

Pretty interesting read on what kind of people they are and how their careers evolved.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I honestly don't doubt these guys' ability. What I doubt is their ability to Ownership to relent on issues regarding how to build a successful team.

Lewis broke down a lot of barriers in his years here. Kudos to him, it was a hell of a run.

Curious to see of MB/KB/TB bend anymore to a younger guy with more analytics.....I'm not holding my breath.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

They gave Duke Tobin the draft room to run. They let Marvin do a lot of things here. I think Mike liked to be involved, but I think he gave Marvin a lot of freedom or Marvin wouldn't have stuck around for 16 years either. I don't think Lewis's self-confident was that bad. This was his mess, not Mike's this time. (The 90's and early 00's were all Mike Browns fault)

 

[Cincyfan78]

They gave Duke Tobin the draft room to run. They let Marvin do a lot of things here. I think Mike liked to be involved, but I think he gave Marvin a lot of freedom or Marvin wouldn't have stuck around for 16 years either. I don't think Lewis's self-confident was that bad. This was his mess, not Mike's this time. (The 90's and early 00's were all Mike Browns fault)

Generally, I agree that MB has taken a step back. But, when things like letting both Whit and KZ walk off the OL - and replacing them with CO and JF - and thinking things would be ok...that reeks of MB, not Marvin Lewis. Lewis, for all his faults, is an astute talent evaluator. I refuse to believe that after watching CO and JF for 2+ years, he thought this OL was going to be just fine letting both walk. To me, this was about MB investing in 1st and 2nd round picks, and refusing to admit that they both were sunk costs and should cut bait AND as a result having to pay at least 1 of AW or KZ (Had to sign at least 1).

In general, I like how the cap overall is run, not a lot of dead money - signing guys early before they come up - but in areas where they skimp on, especially like OL with the lack of depth/talent behind them, or bottom tier FA instead of finding (and paying) a good player (and I don't mean breaking the bank top tier F/A but even next level down) makes me continue to believe that as long as MB is pulling the purse strings, it is going to be tough to keep building a roster that will compete year in/year out. You'll get a 2-3 year window when guys are cheap and under control, but then...the bill comes due - you have to pay good players.

 

[cincygrad]

Generally, I agree that MB has taken a step back. But, when things like letting both Whit and KZ walk off the OL - and replacing them with CO and JF - and thinking things would be ok...that reeks of MB, not Marvin Lewis. Lewis, for all his faults, is an astute talent evaluator. I refuse to believe that after watching CO and JF for 2+ years, he thought this OL was going to be just fine letting both walk. To me, this was about MB investing in 1st and 2nd round picks, and refusing to admit that they both were sunk costs and should cut bait AND as a result having to pay at least 1 of AW or KZ (Had to sign at least 1).

In general, I like how the cap overall is run, not a lot of dead money - signing guys early before they come up - but in areas where they skimp on, especially like OL with the lack of depth/talent behind them, or bottom tier FA instead of finding (and paying) a good player (and I don't mean breaking the bank top tier F/A but even next level down) makes me continue to believe that as long as MB is pulling the purse strings, it is going to be tough to keep building a roster that will compete year in/year out. You'll get a 2-3 year window when guys are cheap and under control, but then...the bill comes due - you have to pay good players.

This may be true, but I think he has some major issues with development. I think Marvin had a few success stories, but I also think he swung and missed a lot. He comically failed at identifying and developing linebackers, with the exceptions of Thurman and Bufict. And one could make the argument that everyone knew those guys had talent, but the mental make-up wasn't there. We watched Ahmad Brooks leave this team and become a star with the 49ers. Same is true with defensive ends - Justin Smith was much better as a 49er than a Bengal. Ivan Drago is playing good football for the Colts.

But I do agree that for a team that 'keeps their own,' too much talent has left the building. Whit, Zeitler, Jones, Sanu, Burkhead..... Several years ago we had to watch Ahmad Brooks and Justin Smith anchor one of the best defenses in the league.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Generally, I agree that MB has taken a step back. But, when things like letting both Whit and KZ walk off the OL - and replacing them with CO and JF - and thinking things would be ok...that reeks of MB, not Marvin Lewis. Lewis, for all his faults, is an astute talent evaluator. I refuse to believe that after watching CO and JF for 2+ years, he thought this OL was going to be just fine letting both walk. To me, this was about MB investing in 1st and 2nd round picks, and refusing to admit that they both were sunk costs and should cut bait AND as a result having to pay at least 1 of AW or KZ (Had to sign at least 1).

In general, I like how the cap overall is run, not a lot of dead money - signing guys early before they come up - but in areas where they skimp on, especially like OL with the lack of depth/talent behind them, or bottom tier FA instead of finding (and paying) a good player (and I don't mean breaking the bank top tier F/A but even next level down) makes me continue to believe that as long as MB is pulling the purse strings, it is going to be tough to keep building a roster that will compete year in/year out. You'll get a 2-3 year window when guys are cheap and under control, but then...the bill comes due - you have to pay good players.

For everyone who likes to pound the gavel, and make fun of the organization for saying "they keep their own", you can't keep everyone. Losing Whitworth hurt, no doubt. However, we were in line to lock up Atkins and Dunlap again, we are going to lock Green up again I feel. We have spent a lot of damn money on guys we drafted and developed. However, you draft between 7 to 10 players a year, you bring in college free agents. When you invest a 1st and 2nd round pick on OT's, you hope they can develop. It flopped. But with several guys in line for massive contracts and us with our mentality to keep our own, we had to take a chance that the guys we draft 1st and 2nd would be able to take over.

I think most people are just perturbed that it all happened on the oline and not at a couple varied positions, like: WR and S. Whitworth was also gettign up in age, at some point you felt like his skill set would drop off and you already invested those high level picks. Zietler became lik ethe highest paid guard in the NFL. Sign your own, but priorities and fiscal responsibility.

I am glad Whitworth got a chance to play for a SB team, he deserves that. I hope he plays out his contract and gets his SB next year if we are not in contention, and judging by our current situation, I would say rooting for Whitworth and the Rams will not affect the outcome of my team on the season.

If Ross can just step up, seriously. We get a quality RT. Glenn can stay healthy. Westerman can actually get a shot at RG....I think we are going to have one hell of an offense. Question is, can we get the defense right again.

A lot of work for the DC that comes in (really hoping it is Del Rio). Defensive line is pretty good, LB's are a f'n train wreck, safeties are in good shape, CB are pretty good if we can keep Dennard and figure out how to make Fitzpatrick as smart as he is athletic, and the defense is not in bad shape.

This is not a bad team to start with. You have one position group that is horrendous (LB's) - Go sign CJ Mosely in FA, draft a young talented LB (plus you have Lawson coming back), and you might be able to change that group around.

Then you need a solid RT either in FA or 1st round of the draft. I am thinking first. I would really like to see Mosely as a LB, so if we can swing that, it eliminates the need for the LB in the 1st, so go after best RT in the draft. Then look at LB's in round 2 to help compliment Mosely, Vigil and Lawson.

Bring back Eifert on a performance based contract, along with Kroft or Uzomah and draft another TE.

Honestly, not that far off. Good situation for Zac Taylor to be in.

 

[CB3UK]

Im in wait and see mode. Just glad for the fresh start.

 

[Cincyfan78]

For everyone who likes to pound the gavel, and make fun of the organization for saying "they keep their own", you can't keep everyone. Losing Whitworth hurt, no doubt. However, we were in line to lock up Atkins and Dunlap again, we are going to lock Green up again I feel. We have spent a lot of damn money on guys we drafted and developed. However, you draft between 7 to 10 players a year, you bring in college free agents. When you invest a 1st and 2nd round pick on OT's, you hope they can develop. It flopped. But with several guys in line for massive contracts and us with our mentality to keep our own, we had to take a chance that the guys we draft 1st and 2nd would be able to take over.

I think most people are just perturbed that it all happened on the oline and not at a couple varied positions, like: WR and S. Whitworth was also gettign up in age, at some point you felt like his skill set would drop off and you already invested those high level picks. Zietler became lik ethe highest paid guard in the NFL. Sign your own, but priorities and fiscal responsibility.

I am glad Whitworth got a chance to play for a SB team, he deserves that. I hope he plays out his contract and gets his SB next year if we are not in contention, and judging by our current situation, I would say rooting for Whitworth and the Rams will not affect the outcome of my team on the season.

If Ross can just step up, seriously. We get a quality RT. Glenn can stay healthy. Westerman can actually get a shot at RG....I think we are going to have one hell of an offense. Question is, can we get the defense right again.

A lot of work for the DC that comes in (really hoping it is Del Rio). Defensive line is pretty good, LB's are a f'n train wreck, safeties are in good shape, CB are pretty good if we can keep Dennard and figure out how to make Fitzpatrick as smart as he is athletic, and the defense is not in bad shape.

This is not a bad team to start with. You have one position group that is horrendous (LB's) - Go sign CJ Mosely in FA, draft a young talented LB (plus you have Lawson coming back), and you might be able to change that group around.

Then you need a solid RT either in FA or 1st round of the draft. I am thinking first. I would really like to see Mosely as a LB, so if we can swing that, it eliminates the need for the LB in the 1st, so go after best RT in the draft. Then look at LB's in round 2 to help compliment Mosely, Vigil and Lawson.

Bring back Eifert on a performance based contract, along with Kroft or Uzomah and draft another TE.

Honestly, not that far off. Good situation for Zac Taylor to be in.

I get you can't sign everyone. That happens. Heck, they made a great off to keep Jones, he turned it down not because of the money but because he wanted to be a #1 WR. I also have no issue with letting Whit walk IF you are looking at re-signing KZ, since KZ is much younger and would provider longer upside than Whit.

I get all of that, and have no issue. I have issue with: They made ZERO attempt to sign KZ - they made a token offering to Whit knowing full well he was going to turn it down.

They made these decisions full well knowing that Cedric and Fisher had no business being next in line.

There are a lot of things I think people pile on MB for that doesn't have merit, but I just can't see how anyone who watched Cedric play/practice for 2-3 years (same with Fisher) think to themselves "You know what, we're good here. Let whit and KZ walk. We can win with these guys".

To me, it just smells too much like "Well, we don't pay linemen, and we drafted these kids pretty high. I know they haven't shown anything yet, but well, we drafted them for a reason and we're going to run them out there regardless of the fact that it is clear neither has the capability (to this point) of being even mediocre".

Sorry, I just don't buy it. At all.

 

[cincygrad]

They didn't sign Kevin Zeitler because they said they don't sign guards to top-dollar. Why? Why is this a policy? You know who does? The team that routinely beats the shit out of us in our own division.

No, you don't need to keep everyone, but you can't lose multiple players in position groups. Maybe you lose either Jones or Sanu... But you don't lose both. Maybe you lose Whit - But you keep Zeitler.

You can't have it both ways.... You can't say that your organizational philosophy is to keep your own and not participate in free agency and then be happy to give away your own free agents for the chance at a 4th round draft pick. It's not good business.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Mike Brown still thinks he's an expert. I'm sure Katy and company are just following up running shit the same exact way because it's all they've ever known.