You guys need to read this, if you have not heard

[TKO]

I think that list of evidence is only what was used in court to get him charged and to keep him locked up. I bet there's a lot more. If there was a video of OJ's Bronco at his wife's house the night of the murder, or one of Casey Anthony's car parked at the woods where her daughter's body was found or one of Zimmerman being attacked and defending himself, the outcome in the first two might be different and Zimmerman might be viewed as innocent by the majority of people in the third case. They have lots of video evidence against Hernandez. We'll see how it goes.

 

[JDM]

It's all circumstantial, though. Even if they can prove he was there, that isn't proof he pulled the trigger.

 

[TKO]

It's all circumstantial, though. Even if they can prove he was there, that isn't proof he pulled the trigger.

Circumstantial evidence can be powerful; even though it doesn't pertain to this case, a bloody fingerprint on a murder weapon or a bloody footprint at a murder scene are both circumstantial but can be damning.

It doesn't matter if he pulled the trigger. If he was there he's as guilty as the trigger man under MA law and if he conspired to commit the murder he's as guilty as the trigger man. It's the law.

 

[briz almighty]

Circumstantial evidence can be powerful; even though it doesn't pertain to this case, a bloody fingerprint on a murder weapon or a bloody footprint at a murder scene are both circumstantial but can be damning.

It doesn't matter if he pulled the trigger. If he was there he's as guilty as the trigger man under MA law and if he conspired to commit the murder he's as guilty as the trigger man. It's the law.

only if they prove one of hernandez, ortiz, wallace killed odin krafty. if someone is proven to have killed him then the others involved are guilty as well just for being involved. if they cant prove who killed him then nobody is charged with murder or association. it dont sound like they can prove anyone of them did it dont matter if all three were there.

 

[JDM]

A bloody fingerprint on the murder weapon would literally be 100 times more valuable than everything they have put together.

Being at the scene is not a crime. Conspiring is, but they don't have evidence of that either, especially if they are not having any of the witnesses testify.

 

[TKO]

only if they prove one of hernandez, ortiz, wallace killed odin krafty. if someone is proven to have killed him then the others involved are guilty as well just for being involved. if they cant prove who killed him then nobody is charged with murder or association. it dont sound like they can prove anyone of them did it dont matter if all three were there.

While common law dictates that no accessory can be charged without the principal (the person that committed the crime for which the defendant was the accessory) being charged, the accessory can’t be charged, this approach has evolved in recent years. The Massachusetts legislature specifically rejected this approach, writing into the code that even if the principal is not charged, the accessory can still be charged and convicted. Throughout the course of trial, it’s important to prove a number of elements in order to convict the defendant for being an accessory. First, the prosecutor must show that there was a felony committed. The crime of accessory before or after the fact is predicated on the idea that a felony offense was committed, making it necessary to prove this in trial. Second, the prosecutor must show that the defendant had the specific intent to help in the commission or the concealing of the crime.... Finally, the prosecutor must show that the act committed by the defendant either helped with the commission of the crime or aided in the concealment of the crime. For an accessory before the fact, the defendant is subject to the punishment provided for in the principal crime.

IMO..They can convict him on the three necessary parts outlined above even if they never name the actual shooter let alone convict one of them for it: even if the principal is not charged, the accessory can still be charged and convicted.

 

[briz almighty]

While common law dictates that no accessory can be charged without the principal (the person that committed the crime for which the defendant was the accessory) being charged, the accessory can’t be charged, this approach has evolved in recent years. The Massachusetts legislature specifically rejected this approach, writing into the code that even if the principal is not charged, the accessory can still be charged and convicted. Throughout the course of trial, it’s important to prove a number of elements in order to convict the defendant for being an accessory. First, the prosecutor must show that there was a felony committed. The crime of accessory before or after the fact is predicated on the idea that a felony offense was committed, making it necessary to prove this in trial. Second, the prosecutor must show that the defendant had the specific intent to help in the commission or the concealing of the crime.... Finally, the prosecutor must show that the act committed by the defendant either helped with the commission of the crime or aided in the concealment of the crime. For an accessory before the fact, the defendant is subject to the punishment provided for in the principal crime.

IMO..They can convict him on the three necessary parts outlined above even if they never name the actual shooter let alone convict one of them for it: even if the principal is not charged, the accessory can still be charged and convicted.

damn thats not the way it works normally everywhere else good find krafty. mass has some fucked up laws. still a jury aint gunna put a young star athlete in prison for life without concrete evidence like dna, murder weapon, confession, eye witnesses. they literally have none of that, especially now that the witnesses arent testifying. you just cant throw someone in prison for life without concrete proof, that burden will weigh hard on the jury you can bank on that.

 

[TKO]

I think the thing he might have going for him when you consider the accessory stuff is what they actually charged him with. He's charged with first degree murder and five gun/ammunition charges. First degree includes the lesser offenses of second degree murder and manslaughter. It doesn't include accessory before or after the fact as far as I know, so they need to tie him to the murder either by being present or conspiring to commit it. The texts, videos and witness statements they decide to use will have to support the case for murder.

 

[redseat]

it is very sad to think that this is not as an open and shut case as once thought and that Hernandez would be convicted and sent away for life. I am sure he did it or at least conspired to do it but as has alrady been discussed right now and now no testimony this case just got a lot harder to prove.

 

[redseat]

We will all react like this if Hernandez gets off?

 

[briz almighty]

Judge blocks prosecution’s attempt to get Hernandez’s jailhouse conversations


Posted by Mike Florio on February 7, 2014, 4:42 PM EST


AP
The murder case against former Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez could be crumbling.


With prosecutors already deciding to punt on supposed star witness Carlos Ortiz, a judge has now blocked an attempt to obtain recordings of Hernandez’s conversations from jail.


According to the Associated Press, the judge said the prosecution didn’t make a sufficient case to obtain the communications, which allegedly contain “coded messages” regarding Lloyd’s murder. Defense counsel call it a fishing expedition.


It’s a bit of a surprise — given the whole “anything you say can and will be used against you” thing — that Hernandez has any privacy at all regarding things he has said in jail.


Is it a fishing expedition? Sure. Should the prosecutors be entitled to fish if the end result is pursuing justice for Odin Lloyd? Hell, yes.


Ultimately, Hernandez is protected by the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If Hernandez has said anything in custody that helps remove the doubt, prosecutors should be entitled to use it.

But they can’t use it until they know it exists. They should be allowed to find out whether it exists.

 

[briz almighty]

I think the thing he might have going for him when you consider the accessory stuff is what they actually charged him with. He's charged with first degree murder and five gun/ammunition charges. First degree includes the lesser offenses of second degree murder and manslaughter. It doesn't include accessory before or after the fact as far as I know, so they need to tie him to the murder either by being present or conspiring to commit it. The texts, videos and witness statements they decide to use will have to support the case for murder.

yea thats sorta what i was trying to say they charged him with murder so they have to prove he did it, if they cant it will be hard to get anyone else on anything. but it sounds like the law is a bit different in mass from the post you made so its still possible.

 

[briz almighty]

We will all react like this if Hernandez gets off?

eh not me. i wanted the pats to stand by their player much like the ravens did with ray lewis. innocent until proven guilty. thats the way it works. pats convicted him and cut him after he was arrested and before the police even announced what he was charged with. thats pretty cold.

 

[BigKen]

Hernandez has not formally been charged with murder. He's being held on "Suspicion of Murder". His lawyer was adamant in court today that the whole prosecution is a "fishing expedition". The five minute I saw on the news was really interesting. The newsies pretty much said that the Commonwealth's case is eroding and that they're reaching for straws. The judge was not impressed that the prison had turned over tapes without the court issuing a warrant....can't be be used in a trial now. She basically said that there had better be a "code". She did not seem to be too impressed with the prosecution.

 

[TKO]

Hernandez has not formally been charged with murder. He's being held on "Suspicion of Murder". His lawyer was adamant in court today that the whole prosecution is a "fishing expedition". The five minute I saw on the news was really interesting. The newsies pretty much said that the Commonwealth's case is eroding and that they're reaching for straws. The judge was not impressed that the prison had turned over tapes without the court issuing a warrant....can't be be used in a trial now. She basically said that there had better be a "code". She did not seem to be too impressed with the prosecution.

They can't keep someone locked up indefinitely on suspicion of murder...he was charged in the murder of Lloyd back on June 26th:

North Attleborough, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Authorities charged former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez with first-degree murder on Wednesday(June 26th), hours after police arrested him and the NFL team that once gave him a $40 million contract dropped him from its roster.

 

[BigKen]

yea thats sorta what i was trying to say they charged him with murder so they have to prove he did it, if they cant it will be hard to get anyone else on anything. but it sounds like the law is a bit different in mass from the post you made so its still possible.

I watched his lawyer, standing before the woman judge and saying"Mr. Hernandez has not been formally charged with murder." He may have said First degree murder. The judge immediately said, He will be or something close to that. The news report I saw was on WCVB Channel 5 Boston.

I was shocked, because I thought he'd been charged formally with at least a manslaughter charge. They can hold him indefinitely on a conspiracy to commit murder charge too.

I just have this weird feeling that the Commonwealth is going to screw this up somehow. Everything in Massachusetts is so corrupt that when a real legal case comes up, they just don't know what to do.....

 

[JDM]

yea thats sorta what i was trying to say they charged him with murder so they have to prove he did it, if they cant it will be hard to get anyone else on anything. but it sounds like the law is a bit different in mass from the post you made so its still possible.

They will probably include a hell of a lot of charges by the time they get to trial, including conspiracy, accessory, gun charges, probably obstruction and a couple other obstruction related charges.

 

[TKO]

I watched his lawyer, standing before the woman judge and saying"Mr. Hernandez has not been formally charged with murder." He may have said First degree murder. The judge immediately said, He will be or something close to that. The news report I saw was on WCVB Channel 5 Boston.

I was shocked, because I thought he'd been charged formally with at least a manslaughter charge. They can hold him indefinitely on a conspiracy to commit murder charge too.

I just have this weird feeling that the Commonwealth is going to screw this up somehow. Everything in Massachusetts is so corrupt that when a real legal case comes up, they just don't know what to do.....

You're probably confusing the double murder he's been implicated in with the murder of Lloyd that he's already been charged with. He was charged with the Lloyd murder back in June but charges may still be coming for the double murder. He's been charged with first degree murder and gun related offenses and he's being held without bail.

The ex-NFL player(Hernandez) has pleaded not guilty to murder in the killing of Odin Lloyd, a 27-year-old Boston man who was dating the sister of Hernandez's fiancee. Lloyd, a semi-professional football player, was found dead June 17 near Hernandez's North Attleborough home. Hernandez is being held without bail at the Dartmouth jail.

 

[patsfan187]

hell if oj simpson and ray lewis can get away with murder why not hernandez lol

 

[bunchofpixels]

I have no problem with the Patriots cutting ties with Hernandez, but I wish they would have done it in a way that they could recoup some the cap hit. Murder conviction or not, he is obviously not the type of guy the Patriots want on their team and doesn't seem to want to change. I don't think you can compare Ray Lewis with him at all.