Yanks adding AL HR leader Encarnacion

[wazzu31]

Sources: Yanks adding AL HR leader Encarnacion


And Seattle gets what???

.........




Yankees send minor league pitcher Juan Then to Seattle. Then, 19, was previously acquired by the Yankees from the Mariners in 2018.


Someone Seattle already had but had traded away.


GO M's?

Mallex Smith v 2.0? Have a crappy GM fill an organization with scouts too lazy to scouts guys they just choose guys previous scouts scouted??

 

[wazzu31]

That being said I would've been in favor of paying more to send him to the Rays in return for a better prospect. For what it's worth, Juan Then slots in as the 16th best prospect in the Mariners farm system per MLB pipeline.

Jerry kind of blew his wad with that though with the Bruce trade. They ate too much of that contract to trade Leake and EE for any prospect of value. The baseball gods owe us by having some prospect go all Kurt Warner on the Mariners.

 

[Dolemite censored]

Sources: Yanks adding AL HR leader Encarnacion


And Seattle gets what???

.........




Yankees send minor league pitcher Juan Then to Seattle. Then, 19, was previously acquired by the Yankees from the Mariners in 2018.


Someone Seattle already had but had traded away.


GO M's?

Mariners suck.

They continue to trade away their best players for nothing in return.

Under the current ownership and management, the Mariners will never amount to anything.

Mariners are masters at failure.

 

[Cyder]

$$$. Yankees being Yankees again.

Turns out the Yankees are only paying something like 2 mil to get him for the rest of this year. There's some crazy accounting going on and somehow the Rays are on the hook for some of the money but I can't figure out how

 

[seahawksfan234]

Jerry kind of blew his wad with that though with the Bruce trade. They ate too much of that contract to trade Leake and EE for any prospect of value. The baseball gods owe us by having some prospect go all Kurt Warner on the Mariners.

I'm very rapidly growing more and more sour on the Bruce trade. The more I think about it, the fact that the Mariners only received $3m in salary relief and received a guy who wouldn't even be a top 30 prospect in our farm system is pretty bad. If they would've waited a bit longer, perhaps a better market would've developed for him.

With the amount of money the Mariners are taking on with Bruce I would've expected the type of return we got for Encarnacion.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Bruce and EE trades were horrible. Both teams involved needed a bat and came away with a low level prospect and a guy who already was in our farm. Awful.

 

[rightstuff]

I'm pretty biased because I think Vogelbach is my favorite player on the team for whatever reason I cannot pinpoint. With the Mariners likely to have Evan White near the majors sometime soon, I expect they anticipate making Vogelbach the full time DH and having White at first at some point.

Vogey rarely swings at bad pitches.
Different Position, but Zunino was constantly behind 0-2. For a reason.
I was down on Vogey because they didn't give him a shot.
Now they have, even against LHP. Go Vogey.
DH of the future.

There is a reason the Mariners franchise sucks.

Rangers suck just as much. Don't hurt yourself claiming some victory with the pathetic not winning Rangers.

 

[wazzu31]

I'm very rapidly growing more and more sour on the Bruce trade. The more I think about it, the fact that the Mariners only received $3m in salary relief and received a guy who wouldn't even be a top 30 prospect in our farm system is pretty bad. If they would've waited a bit longer, perhaps a better market would've developed for him.

With the amount of money the Mariners are taking on with Bruce I would've expected the type of return we got for Encarnacion.

I don’t care that they gave up on them because IMO they should’ve. But Jerry’s addiction to trading is showing and if I were John Stanton he would’ve been fired for eating as much of Bruce’s and EE’s contract and not getting anything back. In totality they are paying a little over $60 million and Diaz for Crawford and Kelenic. Maybe Jerry couldn’t have gotten anything better but I’m racking my brain trying to find another time a franchise traded and ate that much of contracts but didn’t get back anything of note. Frick, the Yankees turned around their farm system a few years back and they didn’t eat as much as the M’s did.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I don’t care that they gave up on them because IMO they should’ve. But Jerry’s addiction to trading is showing and if I were John Stanton he would’ve been fired for eating as much of Bruce’s and EE’s contract and not getting anything back. In totality they are paying a little over $60 million and Diaz for Crawford and Kelenic. Maybe Jerry couldn’t have gotten anything better but I’m racking my brain trying to find another time a franchise traded and ate that much of contracts but didn’t get back anything of note. Frick, the Yankees turned around their farm system a few years back and they didn’t eat as much as the M’s did.

I don't really have much to add because I agree that they both should have been traded and I'm concerned they ate a lot of money for not much. Juan Then is a lottery ticket and he did slot in to #16 or something in the Mariners top prospects, but I feel like that's what we should've received for a guy like Bruce for how much money we paid. I don't care about ownership money, but I believe that eating a big part of a contract should be considered essentially buying a prospect.

My thoughts on the bolded are the following:

(1) I'm hoping that Jerry did his due diligence and took the best deal he could get. My concern is that he's so trigger happy he may have just pulled the trigger instead of being a bit more patient.

(2) Corey Brock (journalist who covers the Mariners) brought up a good point about how now prospects are being valued more than ever these days. You can see the transition with MLB teams preferring younger players by the fact that a lot of vet players either didn't get signed until after the season started or had to wait a while before they received a decent offer. I think there is a solid argument that nowadays teams just don't get the type of return for a rental player that they did 5 years ago.

I'm too lazy to look up comparable trades in the last few years, but prospect returns don't really seem to be what they were a few years back. I'm relatively fine with the EE deal - but considering how much money we paid the Phillies for Bruce - I feel like the return should've been heavier. I've sort of flip flopped on that, but it is what it is.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Vogey rarely swings at bad pitches.
Different Position, but Zunino was constantly behind 0-2. For a reason.
I was down on Vogey because they didn't give him a shot.
Now they have, even against LHP. Go Vogey.
DH of the future.




Rangers suck just as much. Don't hurt yourself claiming some victory with the pathetic not winning Rangers.

At this point since each team has to have an All-Star representative, it looks like Vogelbach will probably be ours. I'd love to see him in the HR derby.

 

[wazzu31]

I don't really have much to add because I agree that they both should have been traded and I'm concerned they ate a lot of money for not much. Juan Then is a lottery ticket and he did slot in to #16 or something in the Mariners top prospects, but I feel like that's what we should've received for a guy like Bruce for how much money we paid. I don't care about ownership money, but I believe that eating a big part of a contract should be considered essentially buying a prospect.

My thoughts on the bolded are the following:

(1) I'm hoping that Jerry did his due diligence and took the best deal he could get. My concern is that he's so trigger happy he may have just pulled the trigger instead of being a bit more patient.

(2) Corey Brock (journalist who covers the Mariners) brought up a good point about how now prospects are being valued more than ever these days. You can see the transition with MLB teams preferring younger players by the fact that a lot of vet players either didn't get signed until after the season started or had to wait a while before they received a decent offer. I think there is a solid argument that nowadays teams just don't get the type of return for a rental player that they did 5 years ago.

I'm too lazy to look up comparable trades in the last few years, but prospect returns don't really seem to be what they were a few years back. I'm relatively fine with the EE deal - but considering how much money we paid the Phillies for Bruce - I feel like the return should've been heavier. I've sort of flip flopped on that, but it is what it is.

I’m not expecting a top caliber prospect back. But like we have said, generally the rule is the more you eat of a contract the higher valued the prospect is or at a minimum get 2 or 3 lower valued prospects and hope one of them hit. I just think Jerry is getting played but it’s hard to say because the only other rumored deal was the Rays but they were asking for the Mariners to eat even more.

I’m definitely not calling the ownership cheap but Jesus if they are serious about rebuilding then pay the maximum allowed towards Leake, Gordon, Seager and whoever else that is escaping me. I’m not a big fan of quantity or quality but they don’t seem to be getting quality so just say screw and get a quantity of prospects and hopefully some pan out. It’s not my money obviously but you might as well just take the sunk cost hoping you get a return down the road, which I don’t see how the Bruce or EE deal really made the organization depth any better.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I’m not expecting a top caliber prospect back. But like we have said, generally the rule is the more you eat of a contract the higher valued the prospect is or at a minimum get 2 or 3 lower valued prospects and hope one of them hit. I just think Jerry is getting played but it’s hard to say because the only other rumored deal was the Rays but they were asking for the Mariners to eat even more.

I’m definitely not calling the ownership cheap but Jesus if they are serious about rebuilding then pay the maximum allowed towards Leake, Gordon, Seager and whoever else that is escaping me. I’m not a big fan of quantity or quality but they don’t seem to be getting quality so just say screw and get a quantity of prospects and hopefully some pan out. It’s not my money obviously but you might as well just take the sunk cost hoping you get a return down the road, which I don’t see how the Bruce or EE deal really made the organization depth any better.

I agree with all of the above. I think the bigger issue is that teams are no longer as willing to depart with their prospects as they were say 5 or so years ago.

I do think the EE deal wasn't a home run but it wasn't a strikeout either. Juan Then is a lottery pick that slots in at #16 in our organizational ranking. I think that this article by the Seattle Times is pretty fair:

What does the Edwin Encarnacion trade mean for the Mariners? Depends who you ask.

Luckily the Mariners have cleared up a lot of money to spend if the team actually ever becomes a contender. The team has only $89m committed in 2020, $43.2m in 2021 and nothing committed for 2020. I'm no fan of building through free agency, but that type of flexibility is helpful.

I know I'm grasping at straws here, but if I accept the futility of being a fan of this team I'd probably go insane.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Mariners baseball, were the Yankees minor league team, just ask Jeter and the boy's back in the mid 90's when they called up Tino and Jeff Nelson and Sojo and starting winning championships.....

 

[wazzu31]

I agree with all of the above. I think the bigger issue is that teams are no longer as willing to depart with their prospects as they were say 5 or so years ago.

I do think the EE deal wasn't a home run but it wasn't a strikeout either. Juan Then is a lottery pick that slots in at #16 in our organizational ranking. I think that this article by the Seattle Times is pretty fair:

What does the Edwin Encarnacion trade mean for the Mariners? Depends who you ask.

Luckily the Mariners have cleared up a lot of money to spend if the team actually ever becomes a contender. The team has only $89m committed in 2020, $43.2m in 2021 and nothing committed for 2020. I'm no fan of building through free agency, but that type of flexibility is helpful.

I know I'm grasping at straws here, but if I accept the futility of being a fan of this team I'd probably go insane.

I get Then isn’t getting back a bag of balls but Jerry already thought so little of him to deal him before. I may be in the minority but I would’ve just preferred 2 or 3 shot in the dark prospects.

I understand the flexibility but I don’t trust for 2 seconds them with payroll flexibility. It’s already been proven that realistically the only way the Mariners can get a big time FA is to offer them a terrible contract. Nelson Cruz is the exception because he massively outplayed at the time his bad contract. My feeling is they need to build through the farm system and hopefully get some dumb luck like the Astros and Cubs got. And it is still frustrating that they chose to tease the fans last year when had they been a seller at the deadline they would have a top 5 farm system this year.

I think most of my frustration with the organization is I don’t have any faith in Jerry running the franchise especially through a rebuild where we are told to be patient. And I guess I’m just a jaded fan from watching mistake after mistake or whiff’s on prospects, free agents and managers for the Mariners. Then on top of bad baseball we had the FO is telling us all this new age baseball stuff is here to stay even though the opener has flopped and with all these new fringe baseball people Jerry hires aren’t actually doing anything whether it be mental, health wise or on the field.

 

[Duders]

I kind of think you're not in the minority by any means. The points you make up are pretty easy for one to see. Fans have had their belly full of this organization's BS. The lip service season after season just doesn't work anymore for most M's fans.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I get Then isn’t getting back a bag of balls but Jerry already thought so little of him to deal him before. I may be in the minority but I would’ve just preferred 2 or 3 shot in the dark prospects.

I understand the flexibility but I don’t trust for 2 seconds them with payroll flexibility. It’s already been proven that realistically the only way the Mariners can get a big time FA is to offer them a terrible contract. Nelson Cruz is the exception because he massively outplayed at the time his bad contract. My feeling is they need to build through the farm system and hopefully get some dumb luck like the Astros and Cubs got. And it is still frustrating that they chose to tease the fans last year when had they been a seller at the deadline they would have a top 5 farm system this year.

I think most of my frustration with the organization is I don’t have any faith in Jerry running the franchise especially through a rebuild where we are told to be patient. And I guess I’m just a jaded fan from watching mistake after mistake or whiff’s on prospects, free agents and managers for the Mariners. Then on top of bad baseball we had the FO is telling us all this new age baseball stuff is here to stay even though the opener has flopped and with all these new fringe baseball people Jerry hires aren’t actually doing anything whether it be mental, health wise or on the field.

I have to start by saying that I wish the prospect we received for Encarnacion didn't have the last name Then. It really throws me off whenever he comes up.

As much as I love to play Devil's Advocate and attempt to be optimistic for the future, I can't really disagree with many of your points. I didn't mention the fact that I would also be concerned about how the Mariners would use that financial flexibility. You can't build through free agency. We hit a home run with Nelson Cruz (pun somewhat intended) but at the time I thought it was an awful idea.

I hate contemplating the idea of imaging the returns we would've received if we would've sold last year, but it would've been the prudent decision. On one hand I understand not selling when it was looking like the Mariners could be a surprise contender. On the other hand I believe it was quite obviously a farce and that the team wasn't really that good. I hate to use the word luck, but sometimes the ball bounces in your direction so to speak.

The fact that Dipoto didn't recognize this is what concerns me the most about him. Even if all of our prospects meet expectations, it's still likely not enough to build a realistic contender by 2021.

 

[wazzu31]

Luck is definitely a big part of prospects that doesn’t really get mentioned. The Cubs and Astros both had a collections of top picks that planned out but also ran into some real luck with the likes of Altuve and Arrieta and other non all star contributors. Which is kind of why I’d just prefer a quantity of guys hoping to find one, maybe not quite to that extent, but find a diamond in the rough. I know it’s really nit picking over this deal, but like I said it is just highly disappointing the return they got for EE and Bruce while eating so much of the contracts.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Most teams fire sale by the deadline to drive up the price on teams bidding against each other, but our GM decides to sell and sells low

Typical Mariner FO

 

[wazzu31]

Most teams fire sale by the deadline to drive up the price on teams bidding against each other, but our GM decides to sell and sells low

Typical Mariner FO

This was another pet peeve of the deal. You already traded Bruce and Healy is still hurt. So what was the urgency to deal EE? It is all speculation that there might have been a better deal but he had shown he could be a viable 1B but it seems Jerry was only shopping him as a DH that’s why only the Yankees and Rays were rumored. It’s not like Seattle was in the position the Rays were in last year when they sold low on Colome because his performance was killing any value he could’ve had. EE was performing at an AS caliber level and my feeling is they should’ve waited closer to the deadline for A. Trying to see if a NL team could’ve used him and B. Finding a deal that they could package either a Leake, Gordon or say a Vogelbach, Murphy/Narvaez, Beckham, Haniger or a Santana along with him. It just doesn’t make business sense to me.

 

[seahawksfan234]

This was another pet peeve of the deal. You already traded Bruce and Healy is still hurt. So what was the urgency to deal EE? It is all speculation that there might have been a better deal but he had shown he could be a viable 1B but it seems Jerry was only shopping him as a DH that’s why only the Yankees and Rays were rumored. It’s not like Seattle was in the position the Rays were in last year when they sold low on Colome because his performance was killing any value he could’ve had. EE was performing at an AS caliber level and my feeling is they should’ve waited closer to the deadline for A. Trying to see if a NL team could’ve used him and B. Finding a deal that they could package either a Leake, Gordon or say a Vogelbach, Murphy/Narvaez, Beckham, Haniger or a Santana along with him. It just doesn’t make business sense to me.

I think I read somewhere that NL teams weren't just shying away from him due to potential limitations playing in the field, but due to the fact that they were concerned if he played 1B regularly he would get hurt.

Prior to the trade (it might have been due to the fact they were shopping him) he was listed as day-to-day with lower back soreness or something. In all likelihood teams were more concerned about him getting hurt than how well he played defensively.