Win now or later?

[msgkings322]

All very true. Probably true for all sports.

I don't know about hockey at all. For basketball for sure, each starting guy is so important. Football I'm not so sure. Outside of a few key positions (QB obviously, and maybe a superstar WR or RB or MLB) the teams have guys go down all year and the good teams just keep rolling. Football to me seems more about the system and the coaches. A guy goes down, just plug in another guy to the system and run the same plays. The backups are going to have almost identical speed, size, etc.

And as we all know, those are the only 4 team sports in existence.

 

[Heathbar012]

I don't know about hockey at all. For basketball for sure, each starting guy is so important. Football I'm not so sure. Outside of a few key positions (QB obviously, and maybe a superstar WR or RB or MLB) the teams have guys go down all year and the good teams just keep rolling. Football to me seems more about the system and the coaches. A guy goes down, just plug in another guy to the system and run the same plays. The backups are going to have almost identical speed, size, etc.

And as we all know, those are the only 4 team sports in existence.

Go easy. I really like soccer.

 

[calsnowskier]

Go easy. I really like soccer.

What, no Roller Derby love?

 

[Heathbar012]

What, no Roller Derby love?

Central Coast Roller Derby: Flat Track Derby for the Central Coast

I know it's a long drive for you, but I'll be there!

 

[mistgl]

I agree that Durty and Weezy MAY be a stretch for a deal this year, but I would not be completely floored if either were traded either (assuming the season is a wash). Surkamp, Wheeler and Hembree are all doing so well that these guys are ALMOST better off the team than on (because of what they can fetch in a deal).

This is just spitball discussion, though, of course. We are still going to win the Series again this year, so these guys will not be dealt...

:charlie:

I love Durty and Wilson as much as any sane Giants fan, but I am all for trading both of them before their big pay day.

Both were picks in the 20th rounds, and I see no greater return on investment then trading each for 2 or 3 studs. For durty, I dont think we could expect more than a Garza like trade, but Wilson would fetch at leats 2 bluechip prospects.

We got our WS, now I would like to see them build a good young team around Timmy, Cain, and Madbum.

 

[calsnowskier]

I love Durty and Wilson as much as any sane Giants fan, but I am all for trading both of them before their big pay day.

Both were picks in the 20th rounds, and I see no greater return on investment then trading each for 2 or 3 studs. For durty, I dont think we could expect more than a Garza like trade, but Wilson would fetch at leats 2 bluechip prospects.

We got our WS, now I would like to see them build a good young team around Timmy, Cain, and Madbum.

I got no prob with this, but if we are "still in it" come the deadline, no way either get dealt this year. MAYBE in the off-season, though, depending on what Hembree does in AA / AAA post promotion and depending on how Surkamp does the rest of the year.

The whole thing would be a lot easier if we are actually out of it come mid-July. We trade Vogey, trade Weez, trade Durty, and we have a shit-load of good, B+ prospects added to the ranks.

 

[tzill]

We're not going to be out of it at all this year; we'll likely win the division. However, with the emergence of several arms in the minors (Surkamp, Tanner, Heston, Westcott, Wheeler) I could see the Giants exploring a trade of Chez in the offseason.

 

[msgkings322]

Trading Durty next year before paying up for him is almost a no-brainer. But why all the trade Wilson talk? Is there anyone who more deserves the $$ as an elite closer? He's young, he's a beast...and let's not forget, he's probably the most marketable player in baseball right now.

I think he gets paid and stays here.

 

[msgkings322]

I got no prob with this, but if we are "still in it" come the deadline, no way either get dealt this year. MAYBE in the off-season, though, depending on what Hembree does in AA / AAA post promotion and depending on how Surkamp does the rest of the year.

The whole thing would be a lot easier if we are actually out of it come mid-July. We trade Vogey, trade Weez, trade Durty, and we have a shit-load of good, B+ prospects added to the ranks.

Not easier on me...I'd be devastated. :sad:

 

[tzill]

Wilson's situation is more interesting. He's signed through 2012 ($6.5 this year, $8.5 next) and is arb eligible in 2013. Assuming he continues to be a dominant closer, the worst case scenario is that he gets $15M or so in 2013. I'd expect that Sabes would work out a deal next year to buy out his final arb and a year or two of FA. Failing that, we could let him walk after 2013 for draft picks.

I think he'll be a Giant for a long time.

 

[calsnowskier]

Isn't it great, though, that our farm is actually producing LEGIT players that force the existence of threads like this?

 

[SFGRTB]

Isn't it great, though, that our farm is actually producing LEGIT players that force the existence of threads like this?

I love how stacked our pitching is (mostly on the relief side). A few more hitters would be nice, but it's hard to complain when you produce Sandoval, Posey and Belt in a 3 year span.

The Giants don't get NEARLY enough credit for the way they work the minors.

 

[mistgl]

Wilson's situation is more interesting. He's signed through 2012 ($6.5 this year, $8.5 next) and is arb eligible in 2013. Assuming he continues to be a dominant closer, the worst case scenario is that he gets $15M or so in 2013. I'd expect that Sabes would work out a deal next year to buy out his final arb and a year or two of FA. Failing that, we could let him walk after 2013 for draft picks.

I think he'll be a Giant for a long time.

I would never advocate trading Wilson for the sake of. However, if we do have a good arm come up before 2013, and he looks like he is more than ready to fill the beards shoes, then I say why not. Keep in mind this is only if said arm has stud written all over him, and the package is just to good to pass up. Otherwise, just pay the man what he's earned.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would never advocate trading Wilson for the sake of. However, if we do have a good arm come up before 2013, and he looks like he is more than ready to fill the beards shoes, then I say why not. Keep in mind this is only if said arm has stud written all over him, and the package is just to good to pass up. Otherwise, just pay the man what he's earned.

"Pay[ing] the man what he's earned" is usually a good strategy. But when you have as many of those guys on the roster as we have, you have to trim the hedges on occasion. Add to that that we are paying guys for what they did on OTHER teams as well, and we will definitely have to swallow a few horse pills in the next few years...

 

[mistgl]

"Pay[ing] the man what he's earned" is usually a good strategy. But when you have as many of those guys on the roster as we have, you have to trim the hedges on occasion. Add to that that we are paying guys for what they did on OTHER teams as well, and we will definitely have to swallow a few horse pills in the next few years...

Part of me actually wishes this team did things like the Rays or Marlins. Riding the players while they are young, and trading them before the pay day. Maybe it's just the nausia I feel when ever I think about Zitos contract, but I NEVER want this team to have to deal with a situation like this again, and that strategy practically guarentees it.

 

[msgkings322]

Some of the reason the Zito mess happened was the Giants feeling like they had to make a big splash with a big name (he used to be...<sigh>) to replace Bonds.

It's not paying up for guys who you drafted, groomed, watch blossom, and won rings with. Pay Wilson.

 

[calsnowskier]

Part of me actually wishes this team did things like the Rays or Marlins. Riding the players while they are young, and trading them before the pay day. Maybe it's just the nausia I feel when ever I think about Zitos contract, but I NEVER want this team to have to deal with a situation like this again, and that strategy practically guarentees it.

I like getting attached to the players. Identifying with the history of the organization is what the ELITE orgs do (NYY, Bos, StL, SF). Florida will never have the attachment to their past players that we have with Mays, Clark, Uribe, McCovey, etc (and will likely have in the future with Huff and hopefully Timmeh, Cain, Weez, etc).

 

[calsnowskier]

Some of the reason the Zito mess happened was the Giants feeling like they had to make a big splash with a big name (he used to be...<sigh>) to replace Bonds.

It's not paying up for guys who you drafted, groomed, watch blossom, and won rings with. Pay Wilson.

Exactly, AND the fact that the organization had not produced a legit MLBer (outside of Feliz and Torrealba) in about 15 years. They are producing a couple legit MLBers a year now for the last 4 or 5 years (and not JUST the top 10 pick guys, either).

 

[msgkings322]

Even the Zito deal wasn't total insanity. You had to figure he'd get BETTER going to the NL from the AL not worse. He was super durable, fairly young, etc.

They wildly overpaid of course, but it would've been hard to foresee him being so ordinary/bad.

 

[calsnowskier]

Even the Zito deal wasn't total insanity. You had to figure he'd get BETTER going to the NL from the AL not worse. He was super durable, fairly young, etc.

They wildly overpaid of course, but it would've been hard to foresee him being so ordinary/bad.

Yes and no.

His trends were HORRIBLE. His peripherals were OK at best. His velocity was already dropping. His CY year was a bad CY year.

Really, the only two thing going for the signing was the AL/NL thing, and the marketing aspect (but 125M to get into the papers for a couple months?). Also factor in that the team was losing Schmidt and NEEDED a front-end pitcher BAD at the time (Cain was good, but still a kid; Sanchez was raw as hell, and Timmeh was not in the org yet).