Win now or later?

[ColinCoby]

Seems to me to be a key question that will inevitably face the Giants this season. IMO, the team can't do much with its current lineup. Granted, you add Pablo to the mix, see some decent production from Belt, some improvement from Huff, Ross, and other vets, and maybe the team has enough offense to make a run again. Perhaps a smaller move that doesn't cost you major prospects can help a bit as well.

But let's say the team remains one of the bottom five run-scoring offenses in baseball. We are now done with May...A year removed from winning it all, are we willing to accept missing the playoffs if it means protecting Belt/Wheeler/etc. for the future? Would we entertain trading guys like Ross in order to prepare for next year?

Yea, I know we gotta wait and see how all this plays out over the next month. And with all the level heads on here, nobody is going to advocate (has ever advocated!) killing the future for a Reyes-type move. Still, this team looks a bit dead in the water right now (despite the decent record).

Haha. Alright. Enough writing. Time for you guys.

 

[Heathbar012]

Yeah. I like what the farm system has been producing, so I am certainly reluctant to "mortgage the minors." That said, there is a very wide spectrum between shipping out Wheeler, Belt and Crawford and picking up a smaller piece (as you alluded to).

I think Sabes will pick up a veteran catcher, and granted, that won't have the big impact that will guarantee World Series contention, but few moves do. In general, I'm more of a wait and see type of guy (especially after a championship with great young pitchers on the rise). I'm not giving up on this year, but I don't expect or root for a big move. Five more years of NL West supremacy will be sufficient (not that it can't happen this year).

 

[calsnowskier]

WAY too early to pull off a ChW / SF type trade (right MSG?). We are .5 games back with 2 rookies in the lineup and a stud bat on the shelf, ready to return in about a week and a half.

Let's see where we are in mid/late July, and if we are out of it, look at deals for Huff, Ross, Durty, Nate, Romo, Weezy, Affeldt, etc.

I like all these guys, but if $$ and age can be shaved from the team, while adding more depth to the farm, you gotta do it.

But we are AT LEAST 6 weeks away from considering this.

 

[Heathbar012]

WAY too early to pull off a ChW / SF type trade (right MSG?). We are .5 games back with 2 rookies in the lineup and a stud bat on the shelf, ready to return in about a week and a half.

Let's see where we are in mid/late July, and if we are out of it, look at deals for Huff, Ross, Durty, Nate, Romo, Weezy, Affeldt, etc.

I like all these guys, but if $$ and age can be shaved from the team, while adding more depth to the farm, you gotta do it.

But we are AT LEAST 6 weeks away from considering this.

+1

 

[msgkings322]

WAY too early to pull off a ChW / SF type trade (right MSG?). We are .5 games back with 2 rookies in the lineup and a stud bat on the shelf, ready to return in about a week and a half.

Let's see where we are in mid/late July, and if we are out of it, look at deals for Huff, Ross, Durty, Nate, Romo, Weezy, Affeldt, etc.

I like all these guys, but if $$ and age can be shaved from the team, while adding more depth to the farm, you gotta do it.

But we are AT LEAST 6 weeks away from considering this.

Precisely. That 'white flag' trade was made far later in the year, and the Sox were 3 1/2 back. I don't think that'll be necessary.

That said, I doubt we deal Huff, Durty, or any of those guys this year even if we fall out of it. We'd likely want to see what this same team + Posey back + an older Crawford and Belt can do next year. If we aren't in it NEXT year, I am quite sure we deal those two and maybe more.

 

[calsnowskier]

Precisely. That 'white flag' trade was made far later in the year, and the Sox were 3 1/2 back. I don't think that'll be necessary.

That said, I doubt we deal Huff, Durty, or any of those guys this year even if we fall out of it. We'd likely want to see what this same team + Posey back + an older Crawford and Belt can do next year. If we aren't in it NEXT year, I am quite sure we deal those two and maybe more.

I agree that Durty and Weezy MAY be a stretch for a deal this year, but I would not be completely floored if either were traded either (assuming the season is a wash). Surkamp, Wheeler and Hembree are all doing so well that these guys are ALMOST better off the team than on (because of what they can fetch in a deal).

This is just spitball discussion, though, of course. We are still going to win the Series again this year, so these guys will not be dealt...

:charlie:

 

[msgkings322]

I agree that Durty and Weezy MAY be a stretch for a deal this year, but I would not be completely floored if either were traded either (assuming the season is a wash). Surkamp, Wheeler and Hembree are all doing so well that these guys are ALMOST better off the team than on (because of what they can fetch in a deal).

This is just spitball discussion, though, of course. We are still going to win the Series again this year, so these guys will not be dealt...

:charlie:

Fuck Yeah we are!

 

[Heathbar012]

Winning!

 

[Heathbar012]

Sorry, Colin. Eternal optimists are horrible prognosticators.

 

[filosofy29]

Stay the course. There are bigger tragedies in the world than not repeating as WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!!!!! Just my humble opinion, but build for long term stability, not short term gains.....we just won the ultimate prize. In other words, the kids are alright.

 

[msgkings322]

Stay the course. There are bigger tragedies in the world than not repeating as WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!!!!! Just my humble opinion, but build for long term stability, not short term gains.....we just won the ultimate prize. In other words, the kids are alright.

Heck so far Crawford is more than alright. He's setting me up for the big letdown, isn't he? He can't be this productive?

 

[calsnowskier]

Heck so far Crawford is more than alright. He's setting me up for the big letdown, isn't he? He can't be this productive?

Not like he came out of no where. He was a TOP prospect at UCLA until his Sr year, and he was considered a top 5 prospect for us back when we had the big 4.

Granted, he has floundered a bit, and the rest of his SF Giants career will likely be at a lesser level than what he has shown so far, but I think he can be a legit, consistent starting SS by mid '12, if not sooner.

 

[filosofy29]

Heck so far Crawford is more than alright. He's setting me up for the big letdown, isn't he? He can't be this productive?

Probably, but if the kid can hit .265 with around 12hrs and play the kind of defense I've seen so far.....I'll fooking take it

 

[SFGRTB]

Probably, but if the kid can hit .265 with around 12hrs and play the kind of defense I've seen so far.....I'll fooking take it

And pretty good speed/baserunning. Nothing spectacular but athletic enough.

I say, keep the prospects. If Wheeler, Crawford, Belt and Brown pan out, add them to our already young pitching staff and core of Posey and Pablo, thats more than enough positions (1B, SS, 3B, C, CF and an entire pitching staff) to be able to fill the holes through free agency and contend for the playoffs and World Series for the next decade.

 

[tzill]

I think we're going to win the division. Colo is our only real competition and their bullpen sucks balls, they lost DLR for the seasons and Baldo ain't Baldo. Sure, they have Tulo and Cargo (and hence why they are our main competition) but they don't have enough to hang with us. Arizona is a nice little story but they don't have the pitching to stay in the race. The Pads and doyers are a mess. This is a weak division this year and we are the team to beat. And once we're in the playoffs with Timmy/Chez/Cain/Bum + the best bullpen in baseball we can beat ANYONE (and yes, I'm looking at you Filthies).

So, we stay the course and maybe make a small move or two at the deadline when prices will come down. I trust Sabes on this one. Ross, Huff, Franchez, Panda, and Torres will all be solid bats down the stretch. I'll roll the dice with Belt and Craw. Whitey will be better in the second half (he'll end up .235 at least). The offense be OK, and with our pitching, OK can get you a ring.

MiggE looks done to me, though. $6MM down the crapper....UNLESS HE EXPLODES IN THE PLAYOFFS.

 

[Heathbar012]

I think we're going to win the division. Colo is our only real competition and their bullpen sucks balls, they lost DLR for the seasons and Baldo ain't Baldo. Sure, they have Tulo and Cargo (and hence why they are our main competition) but they don't have enough to hang with us. Arizona is a nice little story but they don't have the pitching to stay in the race. The Pads and doyers are a mess. This is a weak division this year and we are the team to beat. And once we're in the playoffs with Timmy/Chez/Cain/Bum + the best bullpen in baseball we can beat ANYONE (and yes, I'm looking at you Filthies).

So, we stay the course and maybe make a small move or two at the deadline when prices will come down. I trust Sabes on this one. Ross, Huff, Franchez, Panda, and Torres will all be solid bats down the stretch. I'll roll the dice with Belt and Craw. Whitey will be better in the second half (he'll end up .235 at least). The offense be OK, and with our pitching, OK can get you a ring.

MiggE looks done to me, though. $6MM down the crapper....UNLESS HE EXPLODES IN THE PLAYOFFS.

+1. Nice. Migdar Rentejada. Hey, msg, remember when we were patting each other on the back for anointing the NL at lest in contention for the best division in baseball? Looks like injuries and the extreme suckage of the Dodgers have changed that whole scenario.

 

[msgkings322]

+1. Nice. Migdar Rentejada. Hey, msg, remember when we were patting each other on the back for anointing the NL at lest in contention for the best division in baseball? Looks like injuries and the extreme suckage of the Dodgers have changed that whole scenario.

I do indeed. Shows how much prognosticating is useful for...

Nobody knows nuthin'.

xkcd: Sports

 

[Heathbar012]

+1. Nice. Migdar Rentejada. Hey, msg, remember when we were patting each other on the back for anointing the NL West at least in contention for the best division in baseball? Looks like injuries and the extreme suckage of the Dodgers have changed that whole scenario.

EDIT: Wow. I didn't realize how much I fucked that sentence up until I saw msg's response. Glad you understood what I meant.

 

[msgkings322]

EDIT: Wow. I didn't realize how much I fucked that sentence up until I saw msg's response. Glad you understood what I meant.

Yeah, the context was obvious. It is kind of stunning but it's really all about injuries. At full strength I stand by our original assessment (although maybe less so, the Dodgers have really disappointed...)

Injuries are really almost the whole story in baseball every year. The teams that make the playoffs tend to be the healthier ones. Look how a good team like the Twins is doing with all the hurt guys they have.

I even remember 2006, where the Cards made the playoffs with some godawful record like 85 wins and won it all. Well their record was from injuries all year, but they got healthy just in time for the playoffs so they were 'better' than their record.

 

[Heathbar012]

Yeah, the context was obvious. It is kind of stunning but it's really all about injuries. At full strength I stand by our original assessment (although maybe less so, the Dodgers have really disappointed...)

Injuries are really almost the whole story in baseball every year. The teams that make the playoffs tend to be the healthier ones. Look how a good team like the Twins is doing with all the hurt guys they have.

I even remember 2006, where the Cards made the playoffs with some godawful record like 85 wins and won it all. Well their record was from injuries all year, but they got healthy just in time for the playoffs so they were 'better' than their record.

All very true. Probably true for all sports.