Why drafting DBs early changes nothing

[Old Lion]

That is just it too. Just because a sports writer mentions something does not make it fact.

A great example is Roto. They wrote how plodding Asiata looked because he got 35 yards on 13 carries. Later they wrote that Jon Stewart looked good on his 17 carries for 39 yards. Stewart had 1 good run and 1 good effort on a TD plunge. He basically average 1 yard per carry without the 1 good run.

I watched both games and Asiata looked no worse then Stewart, maybe even a little better.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

You guys are talking about Fuller? Here's my two cents.

Fuller has greatly exceeded my expectations. He can be average the rest of the year and he would be okay in my book. The first int he had took a little bit of luck, but he took that ball from Crabtree. The second int I thought was very impressive. He was defending another player with his eyes on the ball as Kaep scrambled out of the pocket and he came out and picked it off. That's the type of play shut down corners make.

On another note, he did give up a few plays, but it seems like every time a receiver made a play on him he was right there. I remember two plays where he was inches from defending it or even picking it off. After the receiver caught it he was also able to make the tackle quickly, which is another part of the game that corners need to be good at. Corners are going to give up receptions, but they need to be able to limit the yac on the receptions. I think Fuller is going to be wreaking havoc in the north for years to come. I hope we can draft his brother from VT as well. He seems like an even better football player.

Anyway, to put in my thoughts on the debate, I think you are more likely to find a good corner in the early rounds, but like any positions you can find gems late in the draft as well. When it comes to the bears, jerry Angelo always tried to find gems I later on in the draft. They always seemed to be taking DBS later on that didn't pan out. We took Tillman early in e second and he gave us many good years, but was never really a shut down corner. Then we took several corners and safeties later in drafts that never stuck. It works both ways. I think teams should just draft the players that a an become the best NFL players at each round. I don't think position should play too much into it, unless it's a tie breaker between two players.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I hope we can draft his brother from VT as well. He seems like an even better football player.

I stated the same exact thing in here 2-3 weeks ago regarding Kyle Fuller's brother, Kendall Fuller. Kendall was an ACC frosh DPOY last year and some scouts have already noticed him as being better than Kyle was as a Junior. On the flip side, a very good or even great collegiate player doesn't always pan out as the same in the Pro's.

I like what I saw in Kendall as a Frosh last year and can't wait to see him progress these next 2 years. Hopefully he'll be a Lions player and not a Bear.

 

[Kreton]

That is just it too. Just because a sports writer mentions something does not make it fact.

A great example is Roto. They wrote how plodding Asiata looked because he got 35 yards on 13 carries. Later they wrote that Jon Stewart looked good on his 17 carries for 39 yards. Stewart had 1 good run and 1 good effort on a TD plunge. He basically average 1 yard per carry without the 1 good run.

I watched both games and Asiata looked no worse then Stewart, maybe even a little better.

Stewart had a couple plays that really helped his team.

 

[gandydancer]

I'm not harping on you, Kreton, specifically. I just know whenever I posted something from BR, I was chastised in here for it. I'm just sayin'. I actually like a lot of BR's articles but it doesn't mean I agree 100% on any specific article or Stat fact they post.


I wasn't trying to rile up the troops like a couple do in here at times but I'll certainly watch closely as to reactions other poster's have regarding this BR. (and I'll keep those reactions, if any, embedded in my memory for use later on).

I am not huge on BR...they are some decent reads though. Some writers seem like bloggers. Write a great article today and IMO are way off base tomorrow. Opinion base writers...

Truly can not hammer to bad though. CBS writers are no different.

 

[Old Lion]

Here is the play where both Milliner and Pryor got toasted at the same time. I am not sure which one looks more ridiculous.

https://vine.co/v/OaIl3IxHFp5

 

[Naughtymax]

Top CB's in NFL right now according to a bleacher report list i found.

#15 Keenan Lewis 3rd round pick 96
#14 Tremaine Brock undrafted
#13 DRC 1st round pick 16
#12 Brent Grimes undrafted
#11 Brandon Boykin 4th round pick 123
#10 Joe Haden 1st round pick 7
#9 Patrick Peterson 1st round pick 5
#8 Byron Maxwell 6th round pick 173
#7 Leodis McKelvin 1st round pick 11
#6 Chris Harris undrafted
#5 Desmond Trufant 1st round pick 22
#4 Vontae Davis 1st round pick 25
#3 Tyrann Mathieu 3rd round pick 69
#2 Darrelle Revis 1st round pick 14
#1 Richard Sherman 5th round pick 154

So half the best CBs are first-round picks, with at least one more (honey badger) having slid out of the first because of character concerns?

I guess the OP is full of shit.

 

[LPinSLC]

So half the best CBs are first-round picks, with at least one more (honey badger) having slid out of the first because of character concerns?

I guess the OP is full of shit.

#15 was a 3rd round pick as well. I'd consider that early.
So 9 of the top 15 were 3rd round or higher with 7 coming in the 1st round.

 

[Rollingthndr]

I'll take my chances with Pryor over any safety we have on our roster not named Quin. So he sucks just cause he got burned his second NFL game by an all pro wideout/quarterback combination?

 

[Rollingthndr]

Here is the play where both Milliner and Pryor got toasted at the same time. I am not sure which one looks more ridiculous.

https://vine.co/v/OaIl3IxHFp5

Jordy Nelson is a STUD, pro bowl wideout. He makes a lot of DB's look stupid. Just watch this Sunday when he makes ours look just as foolish.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Also, I am not as High on Dennard as many. I think the bigger CBs will have less success going forward with the new rules. CBs will have to be more fluid and the press style will all but disappear.

I actually think the opposite. I think bigger CB's will continue to thrive and be the most sought after, as the WR's continue to get bigger and bigger. As the WR's continue to get bigger, the CB position will have to follow suit.

I think the biggest reason you see the vast majority of WR/TE's that led the NFL in touchdown catches last year as big WRs, is due to the fact "big" CBs are lacking in the NFL.

A CB's job is already one of the toughest in the NFL. When you add in the fact these outside WR's are all starting to be 6'3", 6'4", 6'5" -- it almost makes it unfair for CBs.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Most of us realize that most defensive backs take time to develop, (but not all). Anyways would you rather wait for a stud to develop or three late round picks? Imagine how great the lions defense would be if they had actually drafted one stud DB in the past several years.

 

[Old Lion]

So half the best CBs are first-round picks, with at least one more (honey badger) having slid out of the first because of character concerns?

I guess the OP is full of shit.

Dumbest post ever.

If half were 1st rounders than half were not as well. That means on average it does not matter. If 75-80% were first rounders then you might have a point. 20% of the best were not even drafted. 33% were from round 5 or later. 1 out of frieken 3.

You also just proved my case by saying a 1st round talent slid into a later round. That is exactly what you look for while drafting. Again as long as he fits the scheme. Look what happened to Revis when the Bucs made him play zone. He was still good, but he was nowhere near as effective.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If half were 1st rounders than half were not as well. That means on average it does not matter. If 75-80% were first rounders then you might have a point. 20% of the best were not even drafted. 33% were from round 5 or later. 1 out of frieken 3.

I'm not trying to get involved in this, as everyone here knows where I stand.

I will just say -- In the 1st round, you will only see a select few drafted. Some years, you will see 1 or 2 drafted. Some years you will see 4 or 5 drafted in the 1st round. All depends on the incoming class.

From looking at a few draft classes -- it looks like roughly 30-35 CB's are drafted each year, not including UDFA, so the 1st round picks make up a small % of the total number of CB's drafted. The fact they make up 50% of the top 15 CB's is much more than a toss up.

Basically -- all I'm saying is -- like every other position in the NFL. The higher the draft choice, the more likely you are going to strike gold. After the 1st two, maybe three rounds -- it turns into more of a lottery.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You also just proved my case by saying a 1st round talent slid into a later round. That is exactly what you look for while drafting.

He is talking about Tyrann Mathieu -- the guy suspended by LSU for failing multiple drug tests, then kicked off the team. Then caught in an apartment with drugs on the table in front of him. Who then went to rehab, all before entering the NFL draft.

THAT is the type of player we should be looking for? I think the Lions learned their lessons on reading the red flags after drafting Fairley and Titus Young.

 

[Naughtymax]

Dumbest post ever.

If half were 1st rounders than half were not as well. That means on average it does not matter. If 75-80% were first rounders then you might have a point. 20% of the best were not even drafted. 33% were from round 5 or later. 1 out of frieken 3.

You also just proved my case by saying a 1st round talent slid into a later round. That is exactly what you look for while drafting. Again as long as he fits the scheme. Look what happened to Revis when the Bucs made him play zone. He was still good, but he was nowhere near as effective.

Sorry, this is too stupid to be even a bit relevant. Some third-grade math for you:

If 7 out of 15 are first rounders, and the other 8 come from rounds 2-7 plus undrafted, then as a percentage of success:

First-rounders - 47%
every other round - 7.6%

that means a first-rounder is 6.1x as likely to be a top cornerback than a player taken in any other single round of the draft.

For the slow learners, that's what they call proof.

 

[jdwills126]

No doubt you can find talent past the first round. But in Detroit where you have little depth and you will need recent draft picks to play....Lawson...you feel better about plugging in a early draft pick as opposed to a later developmental guy.

Just taking what you know right here right now who do you think will have a better career....Dennard or Lawson? Gilbert or Desir?

When you look at talent and projections you go with whats in front of you. Sherman may be a great CB but when you have needs you take the guy that projects better. Unless of coarse you have a former CB as General Manager that "knows" CB talent!

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Speaking of CB's for the future

you might want to tune into Saturday night's matchup between Clemson vs Fla St.

You can take a look see at FSU CB tandem PJ Williams, 6'1 195 lbs. long and rangy, a hard hitter but looks to jump route too quickly IMO (jersey #26) and Ronald Darby 5' 11 190 lbs better technique but has trouble with trusting his eyes/instincts at times (jersey #3)... Both of these guys seem to have regressed a little bit so far as compared to last year. It appears, right now, that losing LaMarcus Joyner (S-CB) and (FS) Terrence Brooks has them looking somewhat shaky and questionable reading and reacting instead of being confident like last year. On a side note, their DC from last year, Jeremy Pruitt, left for the Georgia DC job after only 1 year. Pruitt is a disciple of Saban and had coached the DB's.

Someone else to watch out for is Clemson OLB/DE Vic Beasley, a tweener, 6'2" 235 lbs., but this kid can absolutely wreak havoc on a QB/RB..... He's better suited for a 3-4 but who knows what Austin has in mind for next years def scheme.

 

[Old Lion]

Sorry, this is too stupid to be even a bit relevant. Some third-grade math for you:

If 7 out of 15 are first rounders, and the other 8 come from rounds 2-7 plus undrafted, then as a percentage of success:

First-rounders - 47%
every other round - 7.6%

that means a first-rounder is 6.1x as likely to be a top cornerback than a player taken in any other single round of the draft.

For the slow learners, that's what they call proof.

Thank you captain obvious. No shit that round 1 draft picks in general have a higher rate of probability of being good. I already stated that. The issue is that the probability is still incredibly small and that there are just as many players outside of round 1 as inside that are top CBs.

I am comparing round 1 to ALL OTHER ROUNDS. You are trying to spread out the draft picks into each individual round which was never the topic nor was anyone arguing that. What you stated is nothing but a simpletons approach.

Not so sure what is so difficult about that.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

you might want to tune into Saturday night's matchup between Clemson vs Fla St.

Is there another TE we should be scoping out? Can never have enough depth there!