Why drafting DBs early changes nothing

[Old Lion]

Jets' Dee Milliner took himself out of game after Jordy Nelson's long TD | NJ.com

The guy everyone wanted last year (Dee Milliner) and the guy some wanted this year (Calvin Pryor) were absolutely toasted by Jordy Nelson for over 200 yards. Toasted both of them on the same play one time for a long TD that sent Milliner cowering back to the sideline.

Also, the other DBs that most of you wanted Dennard and Gilbert are both riding pine so far.

The 2 that I was touting (Fuller and Verrette) are both playing and playing well. Fuller with 2 Ints last night in a part time role and Verrette playing very well as a starter.

I know I clown around a lot, but you guys really need to start taking me more seriously. I dont look at stats or combine crap. I watch a guy play. Fuller and Verrette may be small and not super strong or balzing fast, but they are ballers.

Bottom line is you need the right player for the right system. Drafting them early is not different then drafting a WR early. You just do not know and fitting to the system is a better option.

 

[Kreton]

Stat sheets are all that matters on here it seems like. I wonder pretty often how many people watch the games, and how many check the stat sheets.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

small sample, regarding FA players at the CB position. Go back to when Asomugha and DRC went from Oakland and AZ respectively to Philly and flamed out badly. They were used in wrong scheme. Dallas trades up, in 2012, to grab ex-LSU CB Morris Claiborne, the so-called second coming of Patrick Peterson, Kiffen and Marinelli use Claiborne in off-man/zone and that wasn't his scheme fit, he is a press-cover corner.


But yeah, stats seem to prevail solely at times according to some. What a player did elsewhere, for damn sure, doesn't mean he'll duplicate those playing for another team. JMO

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I too liked Fuller and Verrett but let's see what they do this entire year, it's only 2 games to date played. Take this year and the next two years, before any complete analysis can be correctly given.


So far they have played very well.


Every DB will be burned at some point and every DB has one player who simply owns him. Never liked Milliner either nor his ex-Bama team-mate Kirkpatrick (Bengals)

 

[gandydancer]

I too liked Fuller and Verrett but let's see what they do this entire year, it's only 2 games to date played. Take this year and the next two years, before any complete analysis can be correctly given.


So far they have played very well.


Every DB will be burned at some point and every DB has one player who simply owns him. Never liked Milliner either nor his ex-Bama team-mate Kirkpatrick (Bengals)

fuller had 2 great plays last night but that's not the end-all be-all you also have to look at did you get beat on a play that extended to drive did you get beat on a play that you know might've been for a touchdown it's not just the glory stats guy could get seven interceptions in the season doesn't mean they can't get burnt 10 times

Some will only look at the fact that they had seven interceptions so that will cover up those 10 Very Bad Plays ...too much compensation goes on here

 

[gandydancer]

With the interceptions Fuller had last night sometimes pretty easy to get an interception on the quarterback is locked in on one receiver

 

[Naughtymax]

Jets' Dee Milliner took himself out of game after Jordy Nelson's long TD | NJ.com

The guy everyone wanted last year (Dee Milliner) and the guy some wanted this year (Calvin Pryor) were absolutely toasted by Jordy Nelson for over 200 yards. Toasted both of them on the same play one time for a long TD that sent Milliner cowering back to the sideline.

Also, the other DBs that most of you wanted Dennard and Gilbert are both riding pine so far.

The 2 that I was touting (Fuller and Verrette) are both playing and playing well. Fuller with 2 Ints last night in a part time role and Verrette playing very well as a starter.

I know I clown around a lot, but you guys really need to start taking me more seriously. I dont look at stats or combine crap. I watch a guy play. Fuller and Verrette may be small and not super strong or balzing fast, but they are ballers.

Bottom line is you need the right player for the right system. Drafting them early is not different then drafting a WR early. You just do not know and fitting to the system is a better option.

I think it's safe to say we'll all take you at least as seriously as we do now.

 

[Kreton]

Top CB's in NFL right now according to a bleacher report list i found.

#15 Keenan Lewis 3rd round pick 96
#14 Tremaine Brock undrafted
#13 DRC 1st round pick 16
#12 Brent Grimes undrafted
#11 Brandon Boykin 4th round pick 123
#10 Joe Haden 1st round pick 7
#9 Patrick Peterson 1st round pick 5
#8 Byron Maxwell 6th round pick 173
#7 Leodis McKelvin 1st round pick 11
#6 Chris Harris undrafted
#5 Desmond Trufant 1st round pick 22
#4 Vontae Davis 1st round pick 25
#3 Tyrann Mathieu 3rd round pick 69
#2 Darrelle Revis 1st round pick 14
#1 Richard Sherman 5th round pick 154

 

[Kreton]

fuller had 2 great plays last night but that's not the end-all be-all you also have to look at did you get beat on a play that extended to drive did you get beat on a play that you know might've been for a touchdown it's not just the glory stats guy could get seven interceptions in the season doesn't mean they can't get burnt 10 times

Some will only look at the fact that they had seven interceptions so that will cover up those 10 Very Bad Plays ...too much compensation goes on here

Very nicely said. Stat sheets dont really show who got burned or why. Watching a game shows that. But if you just go off the stat sheet tackles and int's and or passes defended will show up. Good example would be richard sherman vs the packers in week 1. 0 interceptions, 0 passes defended. But he covered his man so well all game no passes were thrown his way.

 

[gandydancer]

Very nicely said. Stat sheets dont really show who got burned or why. Watching a game shows that. But if you just go off the stat sheet tackles and int's and or passes defended will show up. Good example would be richard sherman vs the packers in week 1. 0 interceptions, 0 passes defended. But he covered his man so well all game no passes were thrown his way.

I'm not really concerned about the Seahawks but yes that's kind of what I'm saying stats will paint your picture just not the whole picture

I am referring to Calvin Johnson getting a break because he dropped to clear passes that would have won the Baltimore ravens game and then you look in the Minnesota game where we hold Adrian Peterson Under 80 yards figure you got a really good chance to win yet the rush defense gives up a 60 some yard run to Corderro Patterson

Don't put too much emphasis on interceptions or lack of interceptions from your cornerbacks or your safeties if they have a bunch of past breakups I take those just as much

 

[Kreton]

I'm not really concerned about the Seahawks but yes that's kind of what I'm saying stats will paint your picture just not the whole picture

I am referring to Calvin Johnson getting a break because he dropped to clear passes that would have won the Baltimore ravens game and then you look in the Minnesota game where we hold Adrian Peterson Under 80 yards figure you got a really good chance to win yet the rush defense gives up a 60 some yard run to Corderro Patterson

Don't put too much emphasis on interceptions or lack of interceptions from your cornerbacks or your safeties if they have a bunch of past breakups I take those just as much

Whether it be CJ or Sherman or Patterson, good or bad, I am simply agreeing with you. Stat sheets dont tell the whole story or in a lot of cases much of the story. I just used Sherman's stat sheet as an example.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I'm not quite sure as to why I'm the one being targeted here. I clearly stated stats seem to prevail solely at times and that I'd need more than 2 games and mostly 3 yrs before I come to any clear cut decision as to what Verrett or Fuller might actually be as CB's. I thumbs upped with Kreton's post regarding some seem to stat sheet check than watch the game. I thumbs upped OldLion regarding some wanting Milliner or Pryor. hell, I even wanted Pryor at one time until Lionstop1 pointed out Pryor reminded him of Delmas. I believe my post (#4 overall) was fairly concise ("it's only 2 games and so far they've played pretty well"). Correct me if I'm wrong in what I commented on and explain specifically what exactly did I state that is wrong, please.


I watched 100% of SD vs AZ game and Verrett only gave up 3-4 completions (Brown 1 or 2) (Floyd 1) (Ginn 1) and 3 of those completions were threaded by Palmer. Brown did have a completion somewhere around 15-20 yds where Verrett was behind him 2-3 yds but for the most part he had extremely tight coverage on his man. Verrett played approx. 80% in the slot and late 3rd and 4th qtrs. moved to some outside #2 CB and held Fitzgerald in check with no receptions against him. Matter of fact the only reception Fitzgerald got was against Marshall (I'm pretty sure it was him).


I had 2 games going late yesterday KC vs Den and Sea va SD as I paid attention to the Den game far more than the SD game. I know I saw Verrett get beat on a couple deep outs for nearly 20 yds by Baldwin and Kearse and another couple short routes, however once again he had solid tight coverage. Yep, 2 of those receptions given up resulted in 1st dns but for a rookie he plays far damn better in just 2 games than any specific 2 games you could pull up on Bentley, JMO.


As far as Fuller goes, I didn't watch any of the Bills game but a lot of highlights and fell asleep late 3rd qtr in the 49'ers. He had an illegal contact or holding penalty, gave up receptions twice to Davis and once to Crabtree but for a rookie he has played very well, IMO.


I would lack more game film knowledge on Fuller than Verrett at this point.

 

[Old Lion]

fuller had 2 great plays last night but that's not the end-all be-all you also have to look at did you get beat on a play that extended to drive did you get beat on a play that you know might've been for a touchdown it's not just the glory stats guy could get seven interceptions in the season doesn't mean they can't get burnt 10 times

Some will only look at the fact that they had seven interceptions so that will cover up those 10 Very Bad Plays ...too much compensation goes on here

Agreed. I do not think Fuller was perfect by any stretch. He had some plays where he didnt look great, but it was his first action and he adjusted quickly. He will get a full weeks 1st team practice this week and the start going forward most likely. We will see how he does. Verrette actually has been pretty consistent but I have not seen as much of him as Fuller.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Bleacher Report Top CB's...


I'm pretty sure I've seen repeatedly that most poster's in here had little value in what Bleacher Report had to say and now all of a sudden they do ? Which is it ? They're reliable or they aren't.


Kreton, I'm not giving you crap for posting a Bleacher Report finding. I just know whenever I've done it in the past most poster's in here started their, "Bleacher Report writer's and articles are nothing more than a bunch of Sofa writer's sitting at home type and they're not a reliable source".

 

[Kreton]

I wasnt trying to target you. And I wasn't referring to you about looking at the stat sheet instead of watching the game. Hopefully you didnt mean me.

 

[Kreton]

Bleacher Report Top CB's...


I'm pretty sure I've seen repeatedly that most poster's in here had little value in what Bleacher Report had to say and now all of a sudden they do ? Which is it ? They're reliable or they aren't.


Kreton, I'm not giving you crap for posting a Bleacher Report finding. I just know whenever I've done it in the past most poster's in here started their, "Bleacher Report writer's and articles are nothing more than a bunch of Sofa writer's sitting at home type and they're not a reliable source".

I like BR. The write opinions and any opinion is an opinion. However the list of top CB's in the NFL seems solid. Maybe the order could be moved around or whatever but for the most part the best CB's in the game right now are on the list. Since the thread was about CB's and draft position I decided to look up the draft positions of those top guys. i just googled for a list and went with it.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Jets' Dee Milliner took himself out of game after Jordy Nelson's long TD | NJ.com

The guy everyone wanted last year (Dee Milliner) and the guy some wanted this year (Calvin Pryor) were absolutely toasted by Jordy Nelson for over 200 yards. Toasted both of them on the same play one time for a long TD that sent Milliner cowering back to the sideline.

Also, the other DBs that most of you wanted Dennard and Gilbert are both riding pine so far.

The 2 that I was touting (Fuller and Verrette) are both playing and playing well. Fuller with 2 Ints last night in a part time role and Verrette playing very well as a starter.

I know I clown around a lot, but you guys really need to start taking me more seriously. I dont look at stats or combine crap. I watch a guy play. Fuller and Verrette may be small and not super strong or balzing fast, but they are ballers.

Bottom line is you need the right player for the right system. Drafting them early is not different then drafting a WR early. You just do not know and fitting to the system is a better option.

Dennard has been outstanding, but week 1 he was injured, and in week two he was on the active list, but you have to consider, the Bengals starters are in place for this season, as they have 5 former 1st round draft picks in their secondary, 4 of which are ahead of Dennard on the depth chart.

Terrance Newman
Leon Hall
Adam Jones
Dre Kirkpatrick
Reggie Nelson

The Bengals didn't need Dennard, they took best available player on the board, and are prepared with their massive depth, to let him work his way into a starting role over the next year or two. That is the why the Bengals have become more relevant, because they are not stretching for picks, they are doing much better in the draft, building their team from that draft and in college free agency. I mean hell, their best player on defense was not even drafted in Burfict. They have another undrafted college free agent on the active roster also in Ryan Hewitt.

All picks are important from rounds 1-5, but you have to make a good decision based on that scouting report, and what players best fit your system, without reaching for need, but rather drafting best available, filling NEED holes in other ways, like FA. 1st round CB's are great to have, if you make the right decision. Can Detroit make a right decision regarding 1st round CB's? I know that Baltimore can't draft a WR if their life depended on it.

PS..I like Detroit, I was just responding to the mention of Dennard, who I think is going to be a very special player in this league when he gets to be a starter. Just has to bide his time until the old guys move out so he can move in. He was outstanding in training camp and preseason this year though.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I'm not harping on you, Kreton, specifically. I just know whenever I posted something from BR, I was chastised in here for it. I'm just sayin'. I actually like a lot of BR's articles but it doesn't mean I agree 100% on any specific article or Stat fact they post.


I wasn't trying to rile up the troops like a couple do in here at times but I'll certainly watch closely as to reactions other poster's have regarding this BR. (and I'll keep those reactions, if any, embedded in my memory for use later on).

 

[Old Lion]

Nice post Crash. You have a point with the depth chart there too. Dennard probably wont play much this year unless someone gets hurt.

The rest you pretty much validated what I was trying to say.

Also, I am not as High on Dennard as many. I think the bigger CBs will have less success going forward with the new rules. CBs will have to be more fluid and the press style will all but disappear.

 

[Kreton]

I'm not harping on you, Kreton, specifically. I just know whenever I posted something from BR, I was chastised in here for it. I'm just sayin'. I actually like a lot of BR's articles but it doesn't mean I agree 100% on any specific article or Stat fact they post.


I wasn't trying to rile up the troops like a couple do in here at times but I'll certainly watch closely as to reactions other poster's have regarding this BR. (and I'll keep those reactions, if any, embedded in my memory for use later on).

Ive noticed that for the most part if people dont like whats being said, they attack the source. Ive seen it with BR, Mlive, Espn writers, ect. It doesn't matter. Opinion pieces are easy for people to attack. I used to find it funny how many people would site Pete Prisco when they agreed with him and then shit all over anyone else using his articles.

For the record I like BR.