Who's Better...Present Day Players and Teams or the Past?

[Clayton]

I can buy the stats angle because the rules are geared for the OFC and the ball to be in the air more...that said...it seems like the number of teams with QBs capable of delivering in the playoffs when you are playing the best DEFs is still relatively low.

Well, that could be a number of things. I think refs let a lot more slide in the playoffs. Every DB is holding to a certain degree and has been for a long while. The other thing is that defenders are bigger and stronger now. Its why RB has been devalued. RBs used to be some of the top athletes on the field but now thats rarely the case.

You still have some exceptions. Big Ben can pull things out of his rear in the playoffs. Flacco has done it. Wilson has done it. Tebow has done it. Brady does it all of the time. Rodgers, Eli and Romo can do it. Cam seems to be on the right track. It happens enough. Its just different from back in the day because its not the same team doing it over and over.

 

[ducky]

NBA...I played basketball at a decent level...had some small college scholarship offers...the 80s and 90s era was better imo...the emergence of the more athletic 2 & 3 position, more balance with more legit low post players.

NFL...this one is a little tougher to call...clearly teams were better in the pre-FA years. But overall I think the players today are faster/stronger/bigger...too bad QB play has declined.

Golf...I have to disagree with Jack...the depth of field in golf today are substantially stronger than most any period Jack played in imo.

MLB...hard to say, I stopped having serious interest after the strike yr...yet to rekindle it.

I have to disagree on basketball. There is no comparing how much better shooters players are today than they were back in the day. And the idea that the defense was so much better back then is a myth. The rules are different is about all. Players today are longer, faster and can jump higher. And the hardest thing to deal with in basketball at any point in history is length when the defender is an athletic equal....and they rarely made athletes as long and as athletic as they are today.

I agree with the NFL. The teams were better because teams could control their players better so the great teams of 20 or 30 years ago had depth on their roster like no team could even dream of having. But the players individually are better on a whole today. There are a ton of average players in the NFL today that if transported back to the 70's or 80's would instantly be HOF'ers in those eras.

Golf is tough because of the technological changes. Can you imagine a young Jack Nicklaus with a modern driver? He a young Nicklaus would be one of the longest hitters in the PGA today with a wood driver. Give him modern technology and he would lap the field. Like a lot of greats in sports, a legend like Nicklaus would have been the best in any era.

MLB is the one quirk in all of this. The individual players were probably better back in the day than they are now but the specialization of the sport makes modern teams better. It still is amazing to me that no one back in they day thought of using bullpens correctly until the last 30 years.

 

[redseat]

Scotty Pippen,Oscar Robertson,Goose Gossage, Jack Nicklaus.........have insinuated they and or their teams were better than present day teams.

I've played sports. And I say, present day athletes are bigger, stronger,faster but the TEAMS aren't as good as teams of the past.

Would the 90's COWBOYS have beaten the Patriots of the 2000 decade or the Broncos of 2015?
Would the Chicago Bulls dynasty teams beat the GS Warriors?
Nicklaus vs. Spieth, or Tiger Woods

90s Cowboys were more smashmouth so it's certainly a possibility
Bulls over Warriors
IF clubs were equal and so were the courses... Nicklaus over Spieth (though very tough call)... "old time" over Nicklaus

 

[beardown07]

As far as golf, the competition today is loaded. Jack had a few guys at the top that could play with him, but what he did was pretty impressive. Would he do it today? I don't think so

That's only been a recent trend. When Tiger was tearing it up, the field was shit.


Jack played against much better competition than Tiger IMO.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

If you gave modern golfers the equipment that Nicklaus had they'd probably quit playing. Golf, probably more than any other sport has made massive technological strides.

Hockey goalies have also enjoyed some nice perks with equipment compared to goalies from 3 or 4 decades ago.

I'm not sure about that in bold...equipment advances have certainly made players today longer...pro golfers in the 50s/60s/70s were largely out of shape guys...Gary Player pioneered fitness...90% of the guys on tour now look like athletes...they have textbook swings, from early ages. We talk a lot about Adam Scott having the perfect golf swing...there are dzs of guys on tour with his swing.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I have to disagree on basketball. There is no comparing how much better shooters players are today than they were back in the day. And the idea that the defense was so much better back then is a myth. The rules are different is about all. Players today are longer, faster and can jump higher. And the hardest thing to deal with in basketball at any point in history is length when the defender is an athletic equal....and they rarely made athletes as long and as athletic as they are today.

I agree with the NFL. The teams were better because teams could control their players better so the great teams of 20 or 30 years ago had depth on their roster like no team could even dream of having. But the players individually are better on a whole today. There are a ton of average players in the NFL today that if transported back to the 70's or 80's would instantly be HOF'ers in those eras.

Golf is tough because of the technological changes. Can you imagine a young Jack Nicklaus with a modern driver? He a young Nicklaus would be one of the longest hitters in the PGA today with a wood driver. Give him modern technology and he would lap the field. Like a lot of greats in sports, a legend like Nicklaus would have been the best in any era.

MLB is the one quirk in all of this. The individual players were probably better back in the day than they are now but the specialization of the sport makes modern teams better. It still is amazing to me that no one back in they day thought of using bullpens correctly until the last 30 years.

Good points, I will respond after I grab some lunch.

 

[PDay8810]

There are a ton of average players in the NFL today that if transported back to the 70's or 80's would instantly be HOF'ers in those eras.

LOL....sure, perhaps if "transported" but not if they lived and trained in that era.

 

[Tainthappening]

LOL....sure, perhaps if "transported" but not if they lived and trained in that era.

Agreed... athletes today have the $$$ to focus solely on playing professional football and have access to trainers, supplements, facilities that were not around in 60s/70s/80s.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I have to disagree on basketball. There is no comparing how much better shooters players are today than they were back in the day. And the idea that the defense was so much better back then is a myth. The rules are different is about all. Players today are longer, faster and can jump higher. And the hardest thing to deal with in basketball at any point in history is length when the defender is an athletic equal....and they rarely made athletes as long and as athletic as they are today.

I agree with the NFL. The teams were better because teams could control their players better so the great teams of 20 or 30 years ago had depth on their roster like no team could even dream of having. But the players individually are better on a whole today. There are a ton of average players in the NFL today that if transported back to the 70's or 80's would instantly be HOF'ers in those eras.

Golf is tough because of the technological changes. Can you imagine a young Jack Nicklaus with a modern driver? He a young Nicklaus would be one of the longest hitters in the PGA today with a wood driver. Give him modern technology and he would lap the field. Like a lot of greats in sports, a legend like Nicklaus would have been the best in any era.

MLB is the one quirk in all of this. The individual players were probably better back in the day than they are now but the specialization of the sport makes modern teams better. It still is amazing to me that no one back in they day thought of using bullpens correctly until the last 30 years.

This in bold in the main one I has a bit of a rebuttal.

Shooters...on the hold I agree...PG and PF are definitely better shooters than 80s and 90s, but the NBA has always had great shooters...from Brian Winters on up to say Reggie Miller...every team had outside shooters, even bigs like Elvin Hayes, and Bob McAdoo could shoot.

DEF...I won't say DEF was better back then, but the physicality of the game has changed. Bigs owned the paint and if you came in there, you paid a price....today, not so much.

NFL...throw me a few of those average players today that would be HOFer...I'm not as sure about that.

Golf...Nicklaus...imo great golfers are great in any era...the assault on COR started with the Big Bertha...if anything the equipment brought the field closer to Tiger and ultimately raised the bar on distance. Strangely tour scoring didn't drop that much, but there are so many more players capable of shooting low and winning now than Jack ever faced....Byron Nelson...great player but he was competing against maybe 20 guys that could win on a week in week out basis.

Tony Finau? young cat coming off the developmental tour won in Puerto Rico. Jim Herrman...long time journeyman won last week in HOU...it's common today.

 

[HammerDown]

All I know for certain is these two things:

The Golden Bear> Tiger Woods
'87 Showtime Lakers > everyone else

No one could stand before the Lakers when the fast break was devastating the world. No one. Jordan's Bulls fall in a sweep.

 

[Breed]

What rules do they play under? Today's or yesteryear's?

Does Oscar get to focus almost all his off-season time on becoming a better Bball player like players of today can do if they so choose? Or does Scottie have to find a part-time job after Bball season is over so he can eat during the off-season?

The only thing I feel sure in saying is. I'd hate to be the next guy up if Bryce Harper takes Goose yard.

 

[night]

This in bold in the main one I has a bit of a rebuttal.

Shooters...on the hold I agree...PG and PF are definitely better shooters than 80s and 90s, but the NBA has always had great shooters...from Brian Winters on up to say Reggie Miller...every team had outside shooters, even bigs like Elvin Hayes, and Bob McAdoo could shoot.

DEF...I won't say DEF was better back then, but the physicality of the game has changed. Bigs owned the paint and if you came in there, you paid a price....today, not so much.

NFL...throw me a few of those average players today that would be HOFer...I'm not as sure about that.

Golf...Nicklaus...imo great golfers are great in any era...the assault on COR started with the Big Bertha...if anything the equipment brought the field closer to Tiger and ultimately raised the bar on distance. Strangely tour scoring didn't drop that much, but there are so many more players capable of shooting low and winning now than Jack ever faced....Byron Nelson...great player but he was competing against maybe 20 guys that could win on a week in week out basis.

Tony Finau? young cat coming off the developmental tour won in Puerto Rico. Jim Herrman...long time journeyman won last week in HOU...it's common today.

A big change in physicality is how pathetic screens are today. I can't believe they don't have their coaches screaming at them in practice about the execution of them.

 

[Irish7478]

The only sport that I see where a team from 40 years ago could compete with a current team would be baseball. That's because the best athletes seemed to gravitate toward baseball back then because the money was better. That's not the case anymore. The average weight of a 67 Green Bay Packer lineman in 1967 was 245 pounds. This year it will be about 320 pounds. No way that they could compete.

 

[Wazmankg]

That's only been a recent trend. When Tiger was tearing it up, the field was shit.


Jack played against much better competition than Tiger IMO.

I agree. Golf has never been stronger at the top or deeper than it is today. But it's only been like that for a few years with the emergence of several young stars. During Tiger's heyday it wasn't like that. A huge deal was made of it when Tiger broke the Masters scoring record in 97. But it was Jack's record he broke... a 30 year old record on the same length course with vastly superior equipment by a single stroke. Then Jack finished 6th there at 58 YO the year after Tiger broke his record. He'd do fine today.

I used to think that training, nutrition and primarily better bodies through chemistry was the only thing that elevated football players of today over those of the past. But watching WRs & DBs especially in recent years has convinced me otherwise. They're just better. Especially the DB play. Speed & quickness is the biggest difference.

There are greats of the past in every sport who would be stars today... Wilt & Jim Brown are 2 I'm convinced would be. Wilt wouldn't score 50 per game but he'd dominate. Many people don't realize what a tremendous athlete he was.

 

[HammerDown]

That's only been a recent trend. When Tiger was tearing it up, the field was shit.


Jack played against much better competition than Tiger IMO.

...and was consistently good from beginning to end (and wasn't a total creep and asshole.)

 

[HammerDown]

I agree. Golf has never been stronger at the top or deeper than it is today. But it's only been like that for a few years with the emergence of several young stars. During Tiger's heyday it wasn't like that. A huge deal was made of it when Tiger broke the Masters scoring record in 97. But it was Jack's record he broke... a 30 year old record on the same length course with vastly superior equipment by a single stroke. Then Jack finished 6th there at 58 YO the year after Tiger broke his record. He'd do fine today.

I used to think that training, nutrition and primarily better bodies through chemistry was the only thing that elevated football players of today over those of the past. But watching WRs & DBs especially in recent years has convinced me otherwise. They're just better. Especially the DB play. Speed & quickness is the biggest difference.

There are greats of the past in every sport who would be stars today... Wilt & Jim Brown are 2 I'm convinced would be. Wilt wouldn't score 50 per game but he'd dominate. Many people don't realize what a tremendous athlete he was.

Can someone please check Waz's account? A sensible person hacked it.

Waz, where the hell you been you ole son of a bitch?

 

[cowboycolors]

Would the 90's COWBOYS have beaten the Patriots of the 2000 decade or the Broncos of 2015?

Hands down Yes and it would not be very close in my Cowboys biased opinion

The Broncos would have got smoked.

And all 4 of those 90's Bills teams would have been very competitive. Hats off to any team that goes to the SB 4 years in a row!

the 85 Bears would have whooped up on the 18-0 Pats in the SB

other opinions will vary

JMHO

 

[Wazmankg]

Can someone please check Waz's account? A sensible person hacked it.

Waz, where the hell you been you ole son of a bitch?

Spending too much time on the politics board when I'm on here.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Today's athletes are certainly bigger/faster/stronger.....and for the detriment of the sport itself. There are far too many injuries (ACL/MCL/PCL/WhateverCL) because ligaments cannot keep up with what PHD's have done to the human body.

So yeah....they are bigger and stronger, but while these guys spend more time in the gym, they spend less time perfecting their craft - NFL tackling has never been more poor...same thing with the basics of catching the football.

You most certainly cannot compare teams of today vs. yesterday. The last truly great single season team were the 1994 49ers....and then it all went to what we have today.....a few guys per team swings the balance far more than ever. It's pretty much why I disregard the whole 'Tom Brady has 6 Super Bowls/4 Titles' when the league is set up for the QB position far more than ever before. I can't imagine what a truly great playoff QB would do today....I'm pretty sure someone like Montana in Brady's position would have 6 or 7 Super Bowls, since he was a much better post season player himself.

Jack Nicklaus? Yeah...his fields weren't as deep but then again, they were all playing to stay alive. Nicklaus had to go through the likes of Palmer, Player, Floyd, Trevino, Watson, Ballesteros.....those are all time guys. A lot of the players today....they win a tournament and they are set for life...you get the feeling that a lot of guys are playing for the dough. Tiger certainly didn't have the upper end guys that Nicklaus faced, but it remains to be seen as for the current elite golfer.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

It would depend on the rules played by, but I think it would favor the current players overall, tough to match up with the new evolutions of defensive and offensive schemes and playcalling being run by what are bigger, faster, stronger players. I mean we have years of improving schemes, where the defense gains an edge and the offense makes a change to counter and back and forth. And past teams I don't think could come close to competing with that on the fly.

Take the 85 bears. That 46 D was such a big key of their success, an amazing new scheme at the time... but it quit working as teams used more of the horizontal passing quick drop WCO that was proliferating the NFL. And that passing attack has evolved another 20+ years since then. I remember Buddy trying running it later in his career and it would look just great vs. teams not yet running the WCO, but then a WCO team would show up and just absolutely demolish it.

It's no offense to the past at all... I have a bunch of tapes of games from the early 90's, but it is crazy watching them and seeing how basic the game looks. Hiding blitzes, the screen game, spreading out defenses, uses of motion, red zone route concepts, moving around of defensive players, hybridizing players, you don't see it when it changes a little every year, but the NFL has become so much more complex it is crazy. Even the old WCO of the 49ers and Walsh. Look at it today, and you can see the underlying principles run by every single team in the NFL but with so many new twists and changes.

I think of it like this. It says nothing about Richard Petty's skill and place in Nascar history to say he would get destroyed if he went back in time to his prime and brought his 1978 Dodge Charger to the Daytona 500 in 2016. He'd be 40 laps behind of course, but it would have zero bearing on his abilities or where he stands in history.

Everything evolves this way and I don't think the NFL is any different. Just my thoughts though...