Who was the better player? Same Position

[Cyder]

In all fairness, the old Yankee Stadium wasn't really a hitters park overall (outside of the short porch down the RF line, the dimensions weren't really hitter friendly). For most of Bernie's career the park factors rated it as slightly a pitchers' park.

For a switch hitter like Bernie the porch comes into play. I think the average SH hits lefty about 65% of the time at least.

 

[Cyder]

edmonds made poor defensive read, resulting in a lot of his "amazing grabs"...same knock on ellsbury. late jumps lead to dives.

he was a good hitter, great eye (high OBP) and had some power.

as a sox fan, i saw TOO much of williams. i saw a lot of edmonds too as an angel.

gimme bernie, twice.

Bernie was also clutch. Other than Jeter he was the guy I wanted up in the big spot on those teams

 

[Loneranger]

edmonds made poor defensive read, resulting in a lot of his "amazing grabs"...same knock on ellsbury. late jumps lead to dives.

he was a good hitter, great eye (high OBP) and had some power.

as a sox fan, i saw TOO much of williams. i saw a lot of edmonds too as an angel.

gimme bernie, twice.

bet your ass ! I remember when the Sox had that offer in front of Williams and George went fuckin nuts. He was so pissed off it nearly killed him. At some point someone in the organization got thru to George and convinced him Bernie is much better than you think he is and you're gonna have to pay him or you'll never hear the end of it. George never had an oz. of respect for Williams his whole career and he never hid that. For some reason he always looked down on Williams right from the day he came to the Bronx. I still don't know why Bernie stayed, If I were him I would have told George to go fuck himself.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Bernie was also clutch. Other than Jeter he was the guy I wanted up in the big spot on those teams

i have an admittedly irrational hatred of all things NYC, to the point i will never set foot there.

i respected 3 yankee "greats" i saw play

mo (especially after 2004, his tip of the cap at fenway in 2005 was awesome)
bernie
tino

 

[Cyder]

bet your ass ! I remember when the Sox had that offer in front of Williams and George went fuckin nuts. He was so pissed off it nearly killed him. At some point someone in the organization got thru to George and convinced him Bernie is much better than you think he is and you're gonna have to pay him or you'll never hear the end of it. George never had an oz. of respect for Williams his whole career and he never hid that. For some reason he always looked down on Williams right from the day he came to the Bronx. I still don't know why Bernie stayed, If I were him I would have told George to go fuck himself.

George never appreciated his own players outside of Jeter and Munson. He always wanted the other teams stars. If he wasn't a tool Petitte probably doesn't end up in Houston and maybe 2004 doesn't blow up in their face

 

[Cyder]

i have an admittedly irrational hatred of all things NYC, to the point i will never set foot there.

i respected 3 yankee "greats" i saw play

mo (especially after 2004, his tip of the cap at fenway in 2005 was awesome)
bernie
tino

The tip of the cap at Fenway was a great moment. And the reaction of the folks at Fenway was classic. I also remember the "Welcome back Joe" on the big screen when Torre came back from cancer and his first game was at Fenway. Great Yankee/Sox moments.

 

[Loneranger]

George never appreciated his own players outside of Jeter and Munson. He always wanted the other teams stars. If he wasn't a tool Petitte probably doesn't end up in Houston and maybe 2004 doesn't blow up in their face

perhaps but I remember those days well and I always thought George disrespected him becuz he's Puerto Rican - no I'm not kidding. I never believed it went any farther than where Williams was from.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I don't hate Edmonds either but all that matters is this : When the 2 were playing there was not a single GM/Mgr who would take Edmonds over Bernie Williams. No way never. At the time Bernie signed his big deal with the Yanks , the Sox had a good offer on the table , Williams was in the top 3 in the game. He was at the time the best RH bat in baseball and probably only behind Griffey. Edmonds never touched that status in anyone's book.

Before 2000, I'd certainly take Bernie over Edmonds. From 2000 on, there's no way I think you can make a compelling case that Bernie > Edmonds given how much Edmonds elevated his game started in 2000.

Edmonds 2000-2004 stretch for instance is better than any 4-5 year stretch Bernie ever had in his career (in Edmonds worst year in that stretch, he had a .974 OPS and 30 HR).

 

[Cyder]

perhaps but I remember those days well and I always thought George disrespected him becuz he's Puerto Rican - no I'm not kidding. I never believed it went any farther than where Williams was from.

George had a history of not wanting his young players. If you go back to the 80's he gave away Al Lieter, Jose Rijo, Doug Drabeck, Buhner, Fred McGriff, Bob Tewksberry and a bunch of other young guys for washed up has beens. They didn't stop doing that until he got suspended. He let Petitte leave without even trying to keep him. I remember Sparky Lyle tearing it up for the Yanks and the next year they pick up Gossage. Love the Goose but most teams don't do that.

 

[StanMarsh51]

edmonds made poor defensive read, resulting in a lot of his "amazing grabs"...same knock on ellsbury. late jumps lead to dives.

he was a good hitter, great eye (high OBP) and had some power.

as a sox fan, i saw TOO much of williams. i saw a lot of edmonds too as an angel.

gimme bernie, twice.

If you saw too much of Bernie, how do you not recognize that he was was notorious for getting bad jumps/reads on balls? That was Bernie's trademark defensively with his weak arm.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Before 2000, I'd certainly take Bernie over Edmonds. From 2000 on, there's no way I think you can make a compelling case that Bernie > Edmonds given how much Edmonds elevated his game started in 2000.

Edmonds 2000-2004 stretch for instance is better than any 4-5 year stretch Bernie ever had in his career.

you keep saying "theres no way" yet there is a way...nearly 40% have agreed with me so far, as well as these fine intelligent posters.

 

[Rock Strongo]

If you saw too much of Bernie, how do you not recognize that he was was notorious for getting bad jumps/reads on balls? That was Bernie's trademark defensively with his weak arm.

where did i say he didnt?

 

[StanMarsh51]

yu keep saying "theres no way" yet there is a way...nearly 40% have agreed with me so far, as well as these fine intelligent posters.

What part of "from 2000 on" don't you understand? Last I checked, that's not the poll question, correct?

 

[Rock Strongo]

What part of "from 2000 on" don't you understand? Last I checked, that's not the poll question, correct?

thats not my fault

 

[StanMarsh51]

thats not my fault

It's not your fault that you can't differentiate between a poll comparing their overall careers and a post comparing them for specified stretch? I think that's on you.

 

[Rock Strongo]

It's not your fault that you can't differentiate between a poll comparing their overall careers and a post comparing them for specified stretch? I think that's on you.

no, its not my fault your poll is flawed.

the entire argument you based this on was "2000 on".

its backfiring nicely.

 

[StanMarsh51]

no, its not my fault your poll is flawed.

the entire argument you based this on was "2000 on".

its backfiring nicely.

The majority agrees with me that Edmonds had the best overall career, and if I made a poll comparing the best stretches of the career, I'm pretty sure the outcome would be the same.

You seem to have non-popular opinions, such as you'd rather have a guy who strikes out less, Ortiz is more a HOFer than Bagwell and Piazza, etc.

 

[Rock Strongo]

The majority agrees with me that Edmonds had the best overall career, and if I made a poll comparing the best stretches of the career, I'm pretty sure the outcome would be the same.

You seem to have non-popular opinions, such as you'd rather have a guy who strikes out less, Ortiz is more a HOFer than Bagwell and Piazza, etc.

shame on me for wanting a guy who doesnt fan 150 times a year.

piazzas not in yet...why?

bagwell?

and i never said "more of a HOFer" i said ortiz would be a first ballot.

if youre going to troll me, do it accurately or saves the carpel tunnel.

 

[navamind]

shame on me for wanting a guy who doesnt fan 150 times a year.

piazzas not in yet...why?

bagwell?

and i never said "more of a HOFer" i said ortiz would be a first ballot.

if youre going to troll me, do it accurately or saves the carpel tunnel.

Because the voters are fucking retards?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I actually did not realize how good Bagwell was... He is not just a HOF, but he is a top 10 all time 1B...