• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

Series Thread: White Sox at Blue Jays

Lake Shore Drive

Your retarted
9,129
3,834
293
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Location
Las Vegas
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
It’s not just the pen. Our starting pitching has been very suspect in recent times. Dontcare if games don’t matter…Our pitching needs to be much much better in every facet outside of basically Lance Lynn…
Our rotation hasn't been perfect, but it's not even close to how poorly our pen has been performing. I'll put it another way, if our pen matched the performances of our rotation all season long, we'd have the best record in the Majors.
 

Jiddy

I wear my Meatball Badge with honor.
12,029
4,098
293
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 800.06
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Rodon = Stopper? We will see.

Not sure...but I suspect Chisoxfan's slumpbuster might have been faking the big O at this point.
 

Jiddy

I wear my Meatball Badge with honor.
12,029
4,098
293
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 800.06
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3

Nomar Mazara was certainly not "balling out" in 2017 with his -0.3 WAR and 101 RBI's.

People put way too much emphasis on the little details/exceptions

Actually, the entire point of sabermetrics and advanced data is that it ignores "exceptions" and focuses on the general rule and outcomes over the long term.

Also, no one is saying that having a lot of RBI's won't come as a result from a "baller" season. It's just an inferior statistic to many other pieces of data. There's a lot of grey areas and variables out of the players control which could work both for him or against him over the course of a season.

Did you just tell me the point is to ignore exceptions while providing an actual exception in Mazara as an example?

Show me the list of 100+ RBI guys over the past 5 years and the VAST MAJORITY are balling out...There is direct correlation to an extremely high % degree.
 

richig07

Well-Known Member
14,819
3,090
293
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Did you just tell me the point is to ignore exceptions while providing an actual exception in Mazara as an example?

Show me the list of 100+ RBI guys over the past 5 years and the VAST MAJORITY are balling out...There is direct correlation to an extremely high % degree.
No. Good lord dude. I used an example to demonstrate that not every player who drives in 100 RBI's is "balling out" as you claimed. Examples such as this demonstrate that luck and other variables can ABSOLUTELY 100% lead to a less that fantastic season lead to 100 RBI's.

Then, I pointed out that (given your "ignore exceptions" point) you actually should devalue RBI's and other archaic statistics more so. As opposed to modern, updated, and improved sets of data which discount variables which the player cannot control. Players can be mediocre or even a bit below average at their position and wind up with roughly 100 RBI's. Who has ever been towards the top of the league at their position in WAR, OPS, WRC, etc. and not been elite that year? By the very definition of the statistics, you are. So, why would you choose the statistic that depends on so much that is going on around the player. As opposed to the ones that the individual player has total control over. That being HIS OWN PRODUCTION. Not whether or not the guys in front of him are produciong and getting on, etc.

And yes... sure... driving in a lot of runs usually means that you're getting a lot of hits and extra base hits. No one EVER, EVER disputed that bud. In fact, there's really NO ONE that would ever dispute that the stat should disappear. I'm not sure where you got that from. It's simply valued a too high by the knuckle dragging "Derrrrr... buncha nerds gonna do some math problem and tell me something about baseball! They ain't never played the game!" type of fans.

Statiticians have rather soundly demonstrated that only a mere 39 percent of a player's RBI total can be accounted for by a player’s batting skills. There’s more to getting high RBI totals than players can realistically control. Sure, if you hit the hell out of the ball. RBI's will come. That being said, the better run creator/producer will often wind up with less RBI's at the end of a season than another player who had a lesser year. Due to the fact that the other player came up in more RBI situations, etc.

This article does a solid job at explaining it.

 

Lake Shore Drive

Your retarted
9,129
3,834
293
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Location
Las Vegas
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
That was a little too close for comfort. Almost blowing what should have been a runaway 9-2 lead ended up becoming a tense game. Glad we hung in there, but I continue to fret over the general performance of our BP.

One cool little item tho. In our 7 game series this season against the Jays, it was literally the Good Guys winning every other game. Don't see that too often.
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
15,406
5,163
533
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
No. Good lord dude. I used an example to demonstrate that not every player who drives in 100 RBI's is "balling out" as you claimed. Examples such as this demonstrate that luck and other variables can ABSOLUTELY 100% lead to a less that fantastic season lead to 100 RBI's.

Then, I pointed out that (given your "ignore exceptions" point) you actually should devalue RBI's and other archaic statistics more so. As opposed to modern, updated, and improved sets of data which discount variables which the player cannot control. Players can be mediocre or even a bit below average at their position and wind up with roughly 100 RBI's. Who has ever been towards the top of the league at their position in WAR, OPS, WRC, etc. and not been elite that year? By the very definition of the statistics, you are. So, why would you choose the statistic that depends on so much that is going on around the player. As opposed to the ones that the individual player has total control over. That being HIS OWN PRODUCTION. Not whether or not the guys in front of him are produciong and getting on, etc.

And yes... sure... driving in a lot of runs usually means that you're getting a lot of hits and extra base hits. No one EVER, EVER disputed that bud. In fact, there's really NO ONE that would ever dispute that the stat should disappear. I'm not sure where you got that from. It's simply valued a too high by the knuckle dragging "Derrrrr... buncha nerds gonna do some math problem and tell me something about baseball! They ain't never played the game!" type of fans.

Statiticians have rather soundly demonstrated that only a mere 39 percent of a player's RBI total can be accounted for by a player’s batting skills. There’s more to getting high RBI totals than players can realistically control. Sure, if you hit the hell out of the ball. RBI's will come. That being said, the better run creator/producer will often wind up with less RBI's at the end of a season than another player who had a lesser year. Due to the fact that the other player came up in more RBI situations, etc.

This article does a solid job at explaining it.

A nearly 40% variable for hitting prowess is way too significant to ignore in producing RBIs. I like RBIs as a stat for the reasons some don't - it is a team stat, but some guys historically are better at it than other and you can look that up.
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
15,406
5,163
533
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
That was a little too close for comfort. Almost blowing what should have been a runaway 9-2 lead ended up becoming a tense game. Glad we hung in there, but I continue to fret over the general performance of our BP.

One cool little item tho. In our 7 game series this season against the Jays, it was literally the Good Guys winning every other game. Don't see that too often.
I enjoyed the game - glad to see the power surge. I'm thinking Kopech is tipping his slider, because his stuff really looked good to me.
 

Lake Shore Drive

Your retarted
9,129
3,834
293
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Location
Las Vegas
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I enjoyed the game - glad to see the power surge. I'm thinking Kopech is tipping his slider, because his stuff really looked good to me.
I know, right? There's no denying his stuff, but I guess your belief is as good an explanation that there is. Way, way, WAY too good a pitcher to have blown up like that. So maybe you're on to something.
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
15,406
5,163
533
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Great game by Hernandez in the field and at the plate - I hope @idseer got to see it. ;)
 

msgkings322

Throbbing Member
116,804
47,482
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,700.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
That was a little too close for comfort. Almost blowing what should have been a runaway 9-2 lead ended up becoming a tense game. Glad we hung in there, but I continue to fret over the general performance of our BP.

One cool little item tho. In our 7 game series this season against the Jays, it was literally the Good Guys winning every other game. Don't see that too often.
Everyone in the pen pitched well today except Kopech for whatever reason
 

Lake Shore Drive

Your retarted
9,129
3,834
293
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Location
Las Vegas
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Everyone in the pen pitched well today except Kopech for whatever reason
Agreed. My stated concern was for the overall performances they've collectively put together this year and even more so since the AS break.
 

msgkings322

Throbbing Member
116,804
47,482
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,700.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Agreed. My stated concern was for the overall performances they've collectively put together this year and even more so since the AS break.
Ebbs and flows over a long season, you don't need me to tell you...Sox kind of scuffling lately, all they have to do is get hot in mid September. Grandal should help.
 

Lake Shore Drive

Your retarted
9,129
3,834
293
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Location
Las Vegas
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Ebbs and flows over a long season, you don't need me to tell you...Sox kind of scuffling lately, all they have to do is get hot in mid September. Grandal should help.
Well that and a couple of other factors. I still love the rotation and we all know few things matter more to the fortunes or misfortunes of a team's postseason hopes than a strong, dependable rotation. I think our starting three ranks with the best of them. Not nearly as confident with #4 tho. With each passing start that we get from Keuchel, I'm slowly beginning to think that Cease should get the nod at the 4 spot. There's no doubting his superior stuff, but then again Keuchel does have that extensive playoff experience. In any event, whoever doesn't get the nod should subsequently provide some value in the pen, especially if one of the starters gets rocked early.

And yes, upon the return of Grandal, the Sox will be as healthy as they've been since day one of this season's campaign. That's another big plus for the stretch run.
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
15,406
5,163
533
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
actually i had to miss the game.
You missed the start of the winning streak.

You haven't missed many. Cubbies are next - we need ya.
 

Jiddy

I wear my Meatball Badge with honor.
12,029
4,098
293
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 800.06
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
This article does a solid job at explaining it.


EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE PLAYER MENTIONED in this article produced 100 RBI'S plus and is either a muliple year all-star, a HOF consideration player, or an MVP....while also being a household name in his baseball city, if not nationally.

Every single one.

The f*ck?

I understand that RBI's is not a tell-all and there's always exceptions...But I ain't gonna sweat thinking a player is balling out cuz he knocked in a sh*t ton of runs over the course of a season. Saying Jose Abreu isn't as good as Mike f*cking Trout isn't going to change that viewpoint.
 

Lake Shore Drive

Your retarted
9,129
3,834
293
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Location
Las Vegas
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE PLAYER MENTIONED in this article produced 100 RBI'S plus and is either a muliple year all-star, a HOF consideration player, or an MVP....while also being a household name in his baseball city, if not nationally.

Every single one.

The f*ck?

I understand that RBI's is not a tell-all and there's always exceptions...But I ain't gonna sweat thinking a player is balling out cuz he knocked in a sh*t ton of runs over the course of a season. Saying Jose Abreu isn't as good as Mike f*cking Trout isn't going to change that viewpoint.
The Jidster has spoken!!
 
Top