What were they thinking

[flyerhawk]

I'm tired of the whole "we haven't invested in the OL" mantra. BS we haven't. Money isn't the only coin of the realm. Draft picks are investments too. 1st rounder on Okung, 1st rounder on Carpenter, 2nd rounder on Moffitt, 2nd rounder on Britt, 1st rounder on Ifedi, 3rd rounder on Odhiambo. Glowinski is a 4th rounder. I agree this year's OL is bad, but you cannot put 4 of 5 guys in as starters at their positions for the 1st time and expect it to be good right away. Thinking we are going to go out in the off-season and buy a new line is nuts. Depending on how the coaches grade out Fant's progress, RT is probably the only spot where we may make a big move, but Odhiambo may be the player they have projected to take that over....or put Odhiambo at RG and push Ifedi out to T.

Well we let Okung go. We let Carpenter go. We let Giacomini go. We let Sweezy go. Our problem isn't that we refuse to invest draft picks, it's that we don't keep the players once they come up for contract renewal.

That has been a conscious decision by JS and PC. Perhaps they put too much faith in Cable's ability to build an effective OL out of thin air this year but it's not like they left money on the table they could have used on the OL. Keep Okung would have meant losing other important pieces.

 

[JMR]

Well we let Okung go. We let Carpenter go. We let Giacomini go. We let Sweezy go. Our problem isn't that we refuse to invest draft picks, it's that we don't keep the players once they come up for contract renewal.

That has been a conscious decision by JS and PC. Perhaps they put too much faith in Cable's ability to build an effective OL out of thin air this year but it's not like they left money on the table they could have used on the OL. Keep Okung would have meant losing other important pieces.

Yep, those guys left as free agents. Could've been the team's choice, player's choice, or a combo. I liked Giacomoni....probably the only guy on the list that I really regret not keeping. Sweezy hasn't even played this year. So-so returns on Okung's play in Denver I think. I would actually welcome him back next year for the right price.

The early picks this regime has spent on OL haven't stayed around for a second contract, no doubt about that.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yep, those guys left as free agents. Could've been the team's choice, player's choice, or a combo. I liked Giacomoni....probably the only guy on the list that I really regret not keeping. Sweezy hasn't even played this year. So-so returns on Okung's play in Denver I think. I would actually welcome him back next year for the right price.

The early picks this regime has spent on OL haven't stayed around for a second contract, no doubt about that.

To be clear, my point isn't that we should have kept any of them. But we let those guys go and replaced them with a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players. Our most experienced lineman is on his 3rd position on the line and his first season as center.

 

[JMR]

To be clear, my point isn't that we should have kept any of them. But we let those guys go and replaced them with a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players. Our most experienced lineman is on his 3rd position on the line and his first season as center.

Yeah, gotcha. I think my over-arching point is eventually we need to slow the churn a bit and let the investment see its returns. Last year 3 new starters I believe (Britt, Novak, Gilliam) and this year 4. At some point we need to hold the line a bit -- allow some guys to settle in where they are and develop and then also get some to their 2nd contracts here. The line has had hardly any continuity the past 3 seasons. Many fans calling for big changes, but I think that has as much chance to just get us right back to where we are now as it does to improve things. Perpetually.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, gotcha. I think my over-arching point is eventually we need to slow the churn a bit and let the investment see its returns. Last year 3 new starters I believe (Britt, Novak, Gilliam) and this year 4. At some point we need to hold the line a bit -- allow some guys to settle in where they are and develop and then also get some to their 2nd contracts here. The line has had hardly any continuity the past 3 seasons. Many fans calling for big changes, but I think that has as much chance to just get us right back to where we are now as it does to improve things. Perpetually.

I agree. The team has made a commitment to George Fant that could turn into a great investment but they have to stick with him. Same with Glowinski and Britt.

 

[Anointed One]

Yeah, gotcha. I think my over-arching point is eventually we need to slow the churn a bit and let the investment see its returns. Last year 3 new starters I believe (Britt, Novak, Gilliam) and this year 4. At some point we need to hold the line a bit -- allow some guys to settle in where they are and develop and then also get some to their 2nd contracts here. The line has had hardly any continuity the past 3 seasons. Many fans calling for big changes, but I think that has as much chance to just get us right back to where we are now as it does to improve things. Perpetually.

Agreed... One of the main reasons our defense has been so sustainable in terms of playing well... Talent plus chemistry makes a huge difference...

 

[chf]

. You can build a great line cheap if you can draft worth a piss for that unit. .

I think you must have typed this out without really thinking about what you were saying. GM's across the league wish it was that simple.

 

[WizardHawk]

I think you must have typed this out without really thinking about what you were saying. GM's across the league wish it was that simple.

I didn't say it was simple, just that's how one would do it. The more on rookie contracts the cheaper your unit, but better be able to hit on a bunch of noobs or it doesn't help much. We haven't had that kind of luck.

 

[chf]

I didn't say it was simple, just that's how one would do it. The more on rookie contracts the cheaper your unit, but better be able to hit on a bunch of noobs or it doesn't help much. We haven't had that kind of luck.

Right, it would have to be luck. Everybody else is trying just as hard to find OL diamonds in the rough, because college offences are all these spread O's.

That's why P+J got laughed at for drafting Ifedi so high, he played standing up his whole college career.

Look at other positions if you like. How many teams have reached for tall lanky DB's since Seattle started having success with it. Not so easy to find guys who can actually play though.

 

[Uhsplit]

Not long ago we had Walter at LT, Hutch at LG, Toebeck at C, Locklear at RT, and online people calling for Chris Grey's head.

 

[seattlefan75]

The seahawks did try to sign Evan Mathis but his punk ass decided to sign with the broncos I mean he did win a ring so it was smart on his end but managment knows that the OL needs help. In the past the hawks have done pretty well getting away with mediocre OL players Giacomini was a below average tackle that we claimed from green bays practice squad drafted in the 5th round, JR Sweezy was a DL we drafted in the 7th round and converted him to Gaurd, Carpenter was not that good of a player, Okung and Unger were solid but they had injury problems. I dont blame them for choosing defensive players over them.

Our Oline is inexperienced we have a brand new center, new LG, rookie RG, rookie LT, and a back up RT. they have never played together and only britt has actual play time experience. They need time to gel I like Growinski, Britt and Ifedi on the interior its the tackles spot that need help. Fant needs experience he could be a solid RT but Sowell needs to go and we need to find a vet LT. The dallas cowboys do have like 3 first rounders on their Oline but I think their success is due to how long they have been playing with one another. each of those guys have been drafted and with the cowboys at a minimum 3-4 years. I think Doug Free has been with the team 8 years so these guys have experience.

 

[dude82]

Not long ago we had Walter at LT, Hutch at LG, Toebeck at C, Locklear at RT, and online people calling for Chris Grey's head.

Coincidentally, that was the last time we had a good offensive line. Since then... injuries, inconsistent play and just drafting/signing the wrong guys have dragged this offensive line down to the point that it's the worst unit on the team every year. Even an offensive-minded guy like Holmgren couldn't come up with a good enough Plan B for the offensive line once our veteran guys started retiring, getting hurt and signing elsewhere. He could have been (and probably was) getting pushback from Ruskell on some of those draft choices and signings by the end of their time together, but that was still a time when the team was paying the offense more than the defense.

It's also easy to forget this now, but for as much money as that 2013 offensive line was getting (more than any other offensive line in the league), it wasn't particularly good either. It was bad at run blocking, bad at pass blocking and bad at avoiding penalties. That line had to deal with injuries as most of our offensive lines from the past decade have and they ended up playing guys like Michael Bowie and Paul McQuistan, but it was still the highest paid line in the league and one of the worst performing lines in the league.

We won the Super Bowl that year because the defense was excellent, Marshawn Lynch was almost impossible to tackle before he gained at least some yardage despite little help from his offensive line and Wilson was good enough with his legs to be enough of a running threat to take some pressure off of Lynch and to be able to pass from outside the pocket better than almost every other QB in the league. Wilson was sacked 44 times and hit 94 times that year and Lynch was hit in the backfield a lot too. This team can win with a horrible offensive line and it's going to have to until they figure out the tackle spots, get a combination that works and stick with it, hoping that injuries finally stop forcing Plan B and Plan C at multiple positions.

 

[MrS]

2013 OL is head and shoulders better than this years. And wilson was more mobile. Those days are over, we need a legit NFL OL

 

[chf]

Well the problem of course is that we're still weak at tackle, and the tackles are the two players who get matched up against the best athletes on the D.

Next year if we can improve at ONE tackle spot and have that middle of the O-line continue to gel, we'll be WAAAAY ahead of this year.

 

[JMR]

Well the problem of course is that we're still weak at tackle, and the tackles are the two players who get matched up against the best athletes on the D.

Next year if we can improve at ONE tackle spot and have that middle of the O-line continue to gel, we'll be WAAAAY ahead of this year.

Yeah, and the wildcard is Fant. You figure the interior guys are set, so if the coaches think Fant has the talent and improved enough this year to be the guy for '17 then you're only talking about the RT as the position to address in the off-season (starter-wise). We planted the seed this year. Gotta give it time to grow because perpetually digging it up and replanting gets you nowhere.

 

[MrS]

Forget fant, draft a rt try to find a lt in fa.

 

[chf]

try to find a lt in fa.

Who was the last real good LT that hit FA?

Again, the other teams in the NFL aren't just there as foils for the Hawks to win another Lombardi.

 

[chf]

Gotta give it time to grow because perpetually digging it up and replanting gets you nowhere.

<golf clap>

 

[MrS]

Who was the last real good LT that hit FA?

Again, the other teams in the NFL aren't just there as foils for the Hawks to win another Lombardi.

who said he had to be real good?

 

[chf]

who said he had to be real good?

We signed FA tackles this year, you saw how that turned out.

I'm just pointing out that signing a FA tackle that actually makes a difference may not exactly be a fait accompli.