Game Thread: Week 6 - Saints

[Cincyfan78]

When we do finally move on from Mixon, it would be terrific to find a guy that can learn how to block. It's embarrassing for a guy with the size and athleticism of Mixon can't do an even average job at pass protection from the running back position. And it's really a major limitation to have a running back that can't be used in 3-down capacity. It tips our plays when Perine comes in.

Dude whiffed on 2 blocks Sunday - and one of them he actually ended up blocking the Center and allowing a sack because of that...WTF?!

 

[Cincyfan78]

yea, I think we can say good by to Bates as well.

Offensively, we could use another RB to complement Nixon (don't say Evans, it's clear he's not used enough, but there's got to be a reason they don't trust him that much)

Haydn Hurst is up for FA, so my guess is we are looking to draft a TE soon

defensively
Von Bell
Eli Apple
Brandon Wilson
Michael Thomas

all free agents.

Can't see us investing that heavily in Bates, but we've seen that coming.

we could use some more muscle at the DL/DE or LB

Bates is gone - and he's not even playing at a rate that would warrant keeping him.

I think they re-sign Bell, but will likely look to draft another Safety as well as CB.

Apple is gone.

What they really need is another NT to backup Reader. Shelvin isn't it, and Tupou isn't bad, but I don't see him as really a guy that can step in that role, either. He's almost a tweener between the 3T and the NT.

I'd sign Hurst to a 3-4 year deal. I really like him, and I think as the offense starts to open up more, he's going to get more chances. He's shown he can be a real pain in those middle areas of the passing game. They'll need to sign another TE, though, that is more capable for blocking. They can draft a TE, but it usually takes a few years for them to really develop unless you have a sure-fire 1st round kind of guy, or get really, really lucky.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Bates is gone - and he's not even playing at a rate that would warrant keeping him.

I think they re-sign Bell, but will likely look to draft another Safety as well as CB.

Apple is gone.

What they really need is another NT to backup Reader. Shelvin isn't it, and Tupou isn't bad, but I don't see him as really a guy that can step in that role, either. He's almost a tweener between the 3T and the NT.

I'd sign Hurst to a 3-4 year deal. I really like him, and I think as the offense starts to open up more, he's going to get more chances. He's shown he can be a real pain in those middle areas of the passing game. They'll need to sign another TE, though, that is more capable for blocking. They can draft a TE, but it usually takes a few years for them to really develop unless you have a sure-fire 1st round kind of guy, or get really, really lucky.

Well, to Tupou's defense, there are only a few guys in the NFL capable of doing what Reader does. However, it would be nice to have a serviceable NT to rotate in if necessary. Apple is terrible. I can't wait until CTB is ready to start working on that side.

How lucky are we that we didn't throw cash at JC Jackson this last offseason? Whewwww. Ranked 2nd worse CB in all of football right now, allowing a 155 QBR when throwing his direction. 82 million and he got benched the other night. Wowsers.

We can definitely save the money on Bates, Mixon. The way we play football on offense, I say just let Perine and Evans do it. I mean, hell we are in passing sets 90% of the time anyways, Mixon has run the ball a total of 22 times in the last two games. Blocking, catching RB, with the ability to squirt through the line to pick up 5 to 6 yards from time to time to just keep the defense honest.

We need to resign Chido and Bell.

Offensively, I really like Hurst also. I would like to see us resign him and Higgins. Have to keep Higgy and Chase together a very long time. We can deal with a 2nd tier WR behind those two, and let Boyd walk at the end of his contract.

 

[cincygrad]

Well, to Tupou's defense, there are only a few guys in the NFL capable of doing what Reader does. However, it would be nice to have a serviceable NT to rotate in if necessary. Apple is terrible. I can't wait until CTB is ready to start working on that side.

How lucky are we that we didn't throw cash at JC Jackson this last offseason? Whewwww. Ranked 2nd worse CB in all of football right now, allowing a 155 QBR when throwing his direction. 82 million and he got benched the other night. Wowsers.

We can definitely save the money on Bates, Mixon. The way we play football on offense, I say just let Perine and Evans do it. I mean, hell we are in passing sets 90% of the time anyways, Mixon has run the ball a total of 22 times in the last two games. Blocking, catching RB, with the ability to squirt through the line to pick up 5 to 6 yards from time to time to just keep the defense honest.

We need to resign Chido and Bell.

Offensively, I really like Hurst also. I would like to see us resign him and Higgins. Have to keep Higgy and Chase together a very long time. We can deal with a 2nd tier WR behind those two, and let Boyd walk at the end of his contract.

Big money free agent corners have been a risky proposition. Hell, we lost that gamble 2 years ago when we signed that Dude from Minnesota. I don't even remember his name because he was so worthless. The Redskins lost their gamble with WJIII. We did well with Chido and Hilton - Both players weren't as highly valued on the market. I think so much of corner is scheme dependent and some guys look better than they really are in certain situations.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Big money free agent corners have been a risky proposition. Hell, we lost that gamble 2 years ago when we signed that Dude from Minnesota. I don't even remember his name because he was so worthless. The Redskins lost their gamble with WJIII. We did well with Chido and Hilton - Both players weren't as highly valued on the market. I think so much of corner is scheme dependent and some guys look better than they really are in certain situations.

Trae Waynes. Yeah. I agree. Teams have to look a whole lot more at players that fit their scheme and what they are asking of them rather than just going after big names.

However, how tough is that, you have a coach like Lou, he has everyone doing great, all his players to make this thing work and then he goes and gets hired to be a HC and now you have a lot of players built for one type of defense and your next DC has to figure out how to rebuild the defense, or he has to figure out how to make schemes and calls based off the current personnel, which rarely seems to happen. The coach usually wants the players to learn his system he is used to instead.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Big money free agent corners have been a risky proposition. Hell, we lost that gamble 2 years ago when we signed that Dude from Minnesota. I don't even remember his name because he was so worthless. The Redskins lost their gamble with WJIII. We did well with Chido and Hilton - Both players weren't as highly valued on the market. I think so much of corner is scheme dependent and some guys look better than they really are in certain situations.

To be fair - Waynes got hurt...that can happen to anyone...I mean, Reader has been hurt twice now missing all of his 1st year here, and now likely to miss close to half a season this year...

 

[Cincyfan78]

Well, to Tupou's defense, there are only a few guys in the NFL capable of doing what Reader does. However, it would be nice to have a serviceable NT to rotate in if necessary. Apple is terrible. I can't wait until CTB is ready to start working on that side.

How lucky are we that we didn't throw cash at JC Jackson this last offseason? Whewwww. Ranked 2nd worse CB in all of football right now, allowing a 155 QBR when throwing his direction. 82 million and he got benched the other night. Wowsers.

We can definitely save the money on Bates, Mixon. The way we play football on offense, I say just let Perine and Evans do it. I mean, hell we are in passing sets 90% of the time anyways, Mixon has run the ball a total of 22 times in the last two games. Blocking, catching RB, with the ability to squirt through the line to pick up 5 to 6 yards from time to time to just keep the defense honest.

We need to resign Chido and Bell.

Offensively, I really like Hurst also. I would like to see us resign him and Higgins. Have to keep Higgy and Chase together a very long time. We can deal with a 2nd tier WR behind those two, and let Boyd walk at the end of his contract.

Agreed...not saying we need another Reader, just that for me Tupou seems like more of a tweener than a true NT type guy...but you can absolutely do worse. He's been serviceable for sure.

Jackson wasn't that great here, IMO - I thought he was OK.

Re-sign Cheeto (Yes, I call him Cheeto) and Bell...not breaking the bank, though.

Draft another CB or find a middle tier CB...

Not sure this team can actually afford Higgins and Chase when you consider Burrow is the next in line for an extension....then again - Boyd also is likely gone at some point - he's been a hell of a player, but age is going to be a major factor in bringing him back in addition to needing his salary.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Agreed...not saying we need another Reader, just that for me Tupou seems like more of a tweener than a true NT type guy...but you can absolutely do worse. He's been serviceable for sure.

Jackson wasn't that great here, IMO - I thought he was OK.

Re-sign Cheeto (Yes, I call him Cheeto) and Bell...not breaking the bank, though.

Draft another CB or find a middle tier CB...

Not sure this team can actually afford Higgins and Chase when you consider Burrow is the next in line for an extension....then again - Boyd also is likely gone at some point - he's been a hell of a player, but age is going to be a major factor in bringing him back in addition to needing his salary.

These are the players in my opinion you are building around and signing to new contracts, regardless:

Joe Burrow
Ja'Marr Chase
Tee Higgins
DJ Reader
Trey Hendrickson
Logan Wilson

Those 6 guys are who you are giving your biggest salaries. RB means very little in this type of offense, as long as Burrow has Chase and Tee. A guy like Evan would be just fine and next man up at RB. The 3 defensive players you hook up, because they are the soul of that defense. Run stuffing NT. An animal off the edge that makes QB's flinch. A MLB that can play all 3 downs well and is the QB of the defense.

Every other position, I am not saying is not important, but you are not sacrificing one of the above 6 to accommodate a little more expensive player at another area.

 

[Cincyfan78]

These are the players in my opinion you are building around and signing to new contracts, regardless:

Joe Burrow
Ja'Marr Chase
Tee Higgins
DJ Reader
Trey Hendrickson
Logan Wilson

Those 6 guys are who you are giving your biggest salaries. RB means very little in this type of offense, as long as Burrow has Chase and Tee. A guy like Evan would be just fine and next man up at RB. The 3 defensive players you hook up, because they are the soul of that defense. Run stuffing NT. An animal off the edge that makes QB's flinch. A MLB that can play all 3 downs well and is the QB of the defense.

Every other position, I am not saying is not important, but you are not sacrificing one of the above 6 to accommodate a little more expensive player at another area.

Don't disagree - just not sure the way the cap works if they are going to pay, basically, 2 guys to be at/near #1 at their positions in Higgins and Chase.....

I fully expect there to be a WR taken early in this upcoming draft. Tee and Boyd, I believe, have 1 more year on their contracts (Could be wrong) - so I expect the team to at least look at adding someone to prepare for the possibility of not having either of those guys on the roster in '24. Long ways off, but planning has to start now.

 

[Cincyfan78]

These are the players in my opinion you are building around and signing to new contracts, regardless:

Joe Burrow
Ja'Marr Chase
Tee Higgins
DJ Reader
Trey Hendrickson
Logan Wilson

Those 6 guys are who you are giving your biggest salaries. RB means very little in this type of offense, as long as Burrow has Chase and Tee. A guy like Evan would be just fine and next man up at RB. The 3 defensive players you hook up, because they are the soul of that defense. Run stuffing NT. An animal off the edge that makes QB's flinch. A MLB that can play all 3 downs well and is the QB of the defense.

Every other position, I am not saying is not important, but you are not sacrificing one of the above 6 to accommodate a little more expensive player at another area.

And then that's not including how much this team is likely going to have to pay Burrow...and while the OL isn't terrible....they are cheap and are on short deals...eventually - this team has got to start putting some actual money into some top tier talent on the OL...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

And then that's not including how much this team is likely going to have to pay Burrow...and while the OL isn't terrible....they are cheap and are on short deals...eventually - this team has got to start putting some actual money into some top tier talent on the OL...

I would add one more player to that list, Awuzie. I think if you sink your big money into those guys and you keep filling holes with affordable free agents and you keep working the draft, this team can be competitive for many years by holding that core together until they start aging out.

 

[cincygrad]

Higgins is a tough case. I like him a lot and I think he's come up big in some games for us. But, I worry about the injuries with him and I think he really benefits from having Chase on the other side. He's one of these guys that I can see attracting absurd money on the open market and then struggling to meet expectations down the road. The Bengals window to sign him is this offseason.... They basically control his rights for two more years (last year of deal and first franchise tag year)... If they can convince him to take a competitive (but not top 5) 4 year deal, he'd become a FA again at age 28 and another shot at a major deal. Given his current agent, I don't see that happening and I think he'll be the next Jessie Bates (tagged and gone).

 

[Cincyfan78]

Higgins is a tough case. I like him a lot and I think he's come up big in some games for us. But, I worry about the injuries with him and I think he really benefits from having Chase on the other side. He's one of these guys that I can see attracting absurd money on the open market and then struggling to meet expectations down the road. The Bengals window to sign him is this offseason.... They basically control his rights for two more years (last year of deal and first franchise tag year)... If they can convince him to take a competitive (but not top 5) 4 year deal, he'd become a FA again at age 28 and another shot at a major deal. Given his current agent, I don't see that happening and I think he'll be the next Jessie Bates (tagged and gone).

It all starts with Burrow - I believe they can start negotiations this off-season....that means, Higgins won't be done until after they know exactly how much they have left over from Burrow. First dibs on offense go to Chase. Expect a #1 type contract for him - then realize you have guys like Reader, Wilson, Cheeto, etc...across the field that also have to be re-upped.

I just struggle to see where they are going to be able to keep both Higgins and Chase - and let's not forget that Higgins' agent is the same for Bates...so...if Higgins is looking to be a top 5 WR...

 

[cincygrad]

It all starts with Burrow - I believe they can start negotiations this off-season....that means, Higgins won't be done until after they know exactly how much they have left over from Burrow. First dibs on offense go to Chase. Expect a #1 type contract for him - then realize you have guys like Reader, Wilson, Cheeto, etc...across the field that also have to be re-upped.

I just struggle to see where they are going to be able to keep both Higgins and Chase - and let's not forget that Higgins' agent is the same for Bates...so...if Higgins is looking to be a top 5 WR...

You also have significant questions about some of those guys that will be highly valued here and elsewhere.... The shoulder injury for Wilson is troubling. I'm not sure you are offering him big money before you know that this won't become chronic. Reader has now had injuries in 2 of his 3 seasons here. Offering him a chance to renegotiate after this season is probably unnecessary and risky. If Awuzie keeps playing at his level, he's looking at a big payday for a contract that will take him squarely into his 30s.

I think everything will go into Burrow and Chase. Remaining moneys will be split between guys that take deals to stay, guys that choose to re-up early or external free agents. They're also going to have to hit on some draft picks to keep the window open.

 

[Cincyfan78]

You also have significant questions about some of those guys that will be highly valued here and elsewhere.... The shoulder injury for Wilson is troubling. I'm not sure you are offering him big money before you know that this won't become chronic. Reader has now had injuries in 2 of his 3 seasons here. Offering him a chance to renegotiate after this season is probably unnecessary and risky. If Awuzie keeps playing at his level, he's looking at a big payday for a contract that will take him squarely into his 30s.

I think everything will go into Burrow and Chase. Remaining moneys will be split between guys that take deals to stay, guys that choose to re-up early or external free agents. They're also going to have to hit on some draft picks to keep the window open.

You don't need to get more than a year out on renegotiations unless you are looking to do what Buff did with Allen at QB, and likely what the Bengals will do with Burrow this off-season. That being said - after this season, the Bengals will be in exactly that spot with numerous key contributors.

Reader 1 more year. Higgins 1 more year. Boyd 1 more year. Wilson 1 more year. Cheeto 1 more year. Jonah Williams 1 more year (I believe Bengals picked up his 5th year option). In general, guys want to start that negotiation window this off-season to protect themselves from injury,e etc...

Bell is a F/A after this year. Pratt is a F/A after this year. Bates is a F/A - but clearly he's been drafted over with his expected departure - so no worries here. Apple is a F/A. I'm sure there may be a few more - but bottom line is - these guys will have to be re-signed/replaced...and either way that takes some cap $ to maintain the consistency of their play (yes, even Apple...sigh).

Of course - then Burrow is able to negotiate after this year (as mentioned above)...So, if you add him to that group above...whooooo

Now - the Cap is expected to go up: 208M currently. Expected jump is $225 in '23, and then $256 in '24.

So, the Bengals will have some room, but as with any rise in the cap, player salaries are going to increase as well. One area the Bengals have always done well is with regards to a fair contract for the player - who generally see the majority of their contractual pay - and fair for the Bengals, which allow a lower hit to the cap.

I also think, just judging by Burrow and Chase at least - these two want to stay together...they will likely take a bit less to do so. I also think that Joe reminds me of that Brady mold - where he may decide to take just a bit less and ensure that other positions are taken care of.

Bills are coming due for drafting well, and winning...now we see how well they navigate these waters to keep the window open for Burrow and Co, while also trying to improve the team.

 

[Cincyfan78]

In addition - depth pieces - 2 more safeties are F/A after this year

Hurst is a F/A after this year

Flowers is a F/A after this year (He's been a solid pickup)

Several more WR's are F/A

Bachie (another guy who impressed last year before injury at LB)

Perine is a F/A


Bengals will save with Bates, Apple, Clark Harris, Huber as key guys currently on the roster who will not be back...so, again - there's some flexibility in some areas...but.....the positions coming due are big money positions....and eventually you have to spend something to replace some of these key depth pieces, or give them raises to retain them.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Higgins is a tough case. I like him a lot and I think he's come up big in some games for us. But, I worry about the injuries with him and I think he really benefits from having Chase on the other side. He's one of these guys that I can see attracting absurd money on the open market and then struggling to meet expectations down the road. The Bengals window to sign him is this offseason.... They basically control his rights for two more years (last year of deal and first franchise tag year)... If they can convince him to take a competitive (but not top 5) 4 year deal, he'd become a FA again at age 28 and another shot at a major deal. Given his current agent, I don't see that happening and I think he'll be the next Jessie Bates (tagged and gone).

I somewhat disagree with this. Higgins made plays his rookie year without Chase. Granted, Green was on the other side, but AJ was a shell of himself. Boyd was considered the go to guy Higgins rookie year. Higgins makes absurd catches in double coverage, out jumping DB's, tip toe catches on the sideline. Extremely gifted, strong hands. He has good speed. I think Higgins is very special, and Ja'Marr is benefited from having Higgins on the opposing side of him as well.We have seen that some defenses plan to take Chase out of a game and when they do, Higgins lights them up. When they are trying to cover both guys, both have a good day, see Chase's day against NO.

His injury history is a little concerning, but I don't think anything major has hampered him. He just has some knicks and bruises. A tall, lanky guy makes a big target for a bone crushing blow, especially when going over the middle. It is a concern, but one I would be willing to take a chance on given his natural abilities, especially considering what type of offense Taylor and Burrow run.

 

[futballiscool]

I think two highly paid WRs on the same roster is manageable if your QB is on a rookie deal or the WRs are at different stages of their career. This roster will have a WR and QB paid near or at the top of the leauge on a 2nd contract. That makes keeping Higgins impossible unless you want the next 5 years of your capspace tied up in one area of the team. I think Chase becomes the highest paid WR in football and Higgins leaves in FA

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think two highly paid WRs on the same roster is manageable if your QB is on a rookie deal or the WRs are at different stages of their career. This roster will have a WR and QB paid near or at the top of the leauge on a 2nd contract. That makes keeping Higgins impossible unless you want the next 5 years of your capspace tied up in one area of the team. I think Chase becomes the highest paid WR in football and Higgins leaves in FA

Sadly, I agree.

If QB's hadn't started to negotiate very early into the window - like Allen did - I think it may have been at least a remote possibility to sign everyone...still think it would be very hard, but I think it could be done. But, considering that they will likely look to extend Burrow this off-season (like Allen), and you still have a big chunk of impact guys also looking to extend their contracts before the season starts to avoid going into next year on their last year of their deal - and you still have some guys this year who will be F/A that need to be brought back....

I just don't see how you can afford to pay Higgins knowing Chase, Burrow, Reader, Wilson, Cheeto, Williams, are all going to be due plus needing to resign solid players like Bell, Thomas and others who will have roles either as starters, fringe starters, or key backups. At some point you have to pay guys, even the backups and role guys, because they are good at what they do...Sure, some guys will get drafted over, and others will be replaced by cheaper F/A - but you can't do it to everyone...

Bengals have always been pretty good with contracts - so now we are going to see how well they can do this while winning games and keeping guys like Burrow happy...