Game Thread: Washington

[DanBengalfan]

Joe Burrow will be prime time Joe tonight. if Zac can get out of his way with the moronic play calling.

redskins will run the ball up the middle and do ok, trying to keep our offense off the field, but it won't be enough to seal the deal.

 

[DanBengalfan]

the bengals defense...

is just not that good.

 

[cincygrad]

Well - I think we'll eventually get back to forcing teams to punt every now and again. But, the defense is an issue and it's not going away. Injuries matter, but given all the draft and FA capital used on the unit over the past couple of years, you'd hope for better depth. As for the offense..... Even with the clunker against New England, the offense is now one of the most efficient in the league. Guess we'll be watching some arena league games the rest of the year.

x.com

x.com

 

[redskinsfan1963]

shocked the hell out of me.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Saw an interesting stat this morning on the team. After last nights game against Washington, the Bengals are the only team left in the NFL to have a defense who still hasn't made a tackle.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Lou has his work cut out for him - and a lot of this is going to fall on his shoulders as he is simply going to have to admit that his preferred defensive approach is simply not going to work with this group.

First - his defense is predicated on getting a solid pass-rush with just 4 guys. That's nowhere close to happening. QB's are eating up the man/zone mix because they have tons of time to throw. Lou isn't a big blitz guy (he's judicious on when he brings pressure) but he is going to have to start bringing more pressure if he wants to get after the QB. Sitting back and waiting on Trey to catch fire and get 2-3 sacks isn't going to work with this group.

Secondly - this group cannot stop the run. I'm not sure the return of the injured guys is going to help in this. Much like with the rush above, I believe Lou is going to have to break down and start having his LB's come downhill more and read/react less. That's not his preferred style, but you can kind of solve these two issues with 1 move - by bringing more LB pressure to fill the run gaps AND they continue on to the QB when it's a passing down/play.

Lastly - I'm not really sure how much cover 2 Lou likes to use - but they need more. The DB's are getting beat too often deep with no help over top. Since the Safeties in the box isn't solving the run issue, I would do what I said above by bringing the LB's more, and I would actually back the Safeties up into more Cover 2 looks.

A final note - maybe a 4th point if you will - there are CLEAR communication issues on this defense. For 3 weeks guys have not been on the field when they needed to be, running out late, incorrect assignments and most notably - you see guys almost yelling at each other pre-snap trying to get everyone lined up correctly - and of course, the yelling after a clear blown assignment.

This defense needs to, likely, get a little less complex and allow these guys to play a little faster AND this defense needs to change up how they bring pressure if they want to succeed. Lou is a hell of a DC and we know his scheme works - but it takes the right guys...and currently, these do not look like the right guys. Maybe the return of Rankins, Hill, and McKinley help...at least with the run...but the pass rush has been MIA for 3 years outside of Trey. It's time to find a new avenue.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Whelp. They managed to fool us for about 2 years, but the real Cincinnati Bengals are back.

That looked like a classic Marvin Lewis prime time loss from yester year.

Poor leadership from top to bottom.

The coaches have no answers. It’s obvious Zac doesn’t know how to fix it. They’ll blame injuries. But no excuses for whatever the fuck that gameplan was from Lou against a “college offense”.

Made a rookie QB in his 3rd start look like an MVP. No pressure. No blitzes. No disguised coverage. Nothing. Soft zone all night long. 4 man rush that gets no push. Receivers simply run 8 yards, turn around, easy catch, run for 5 more before being touched. Then throw deep against man for an easy TD.

2nd and 21 late in the game when you need a stop? 10 yard cushion for an easy throw, and poor tackling after the catch. Next play? CTB (who should never speak again) gets toasted for a TD.

Offense was good. But still can’t score in the red zone. Not gonna cut it. Too much talent to not being scoring TDs every time down there.


0-3 in the softer part of the schedule. Our division is gonna eat us alive. This ain’t getting better.

I don’t want to hear another peep about the Super Bowl. That window is closed. And the front office with 4 good draft picks in 5 years, and ownership with archaic self imposed restrictions that causes them to refuse to pay Bates, Higgins, Reader and Chase, along with refusing to invest heavily on the DL for 2 straight offseasons is the reason why.

But hey, we’ll win some games late in the season to ruin our draft pick and continue to waste Joe Burrow’s prime with Zac Taylor for the next 5 years. Should be fun.

 

[cincygrad]

I'll never understand the paradox by which Lou can fluster some of the best QBs in the league (Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes), but yet his team gets shredded by a rookie or a street FA once a season. It just doesn't make sense. I do wonder how much of last night was due to the defensive line issues. To me, he should have started using more man-to-man with CTB and Dax on the outside and then generated some rush off the blitz. It would have exposed the back-end a little, but it certainly wouldn't have been any easier than the pitch and catch game the Commanders enjoyed against that soft zone (as mentioned by @BKBroiler9000 ). My only explanation for why it didn't happen is that Lou figured he would get crushed in the run game. Regardless, the fact that they continued to play the same failed concepts all night means that they either are incapable of playing something else or that Lou is too stubborn. Either way, they only needed one damn stop and they couldn't do it.

It's hard for me to beat on the offense too much. How many games do you play where you don't turn it over, don't punt, and you score 4 touchdowns? But, they could have had more. Gesiki needs to make plays. I understand it was a hard catch on that 3rd down, but that's 3 big plays this season that Burrow put the ball on him and he didn't make the play. The other two times we failed to get a touchdown were due to Burrow - He missed the running back in the flat on one and he threw it just a touch too low for Chase on the other (you could argue that one was on Chase as Burrow put it in the only place for Chase to catch it and not take a big hit). This feels like nitpicks though.

I will say that the structure of our offense looks much different and is trending in the right direction. Tons of motion and efficient running let us get them out of two high a few times. And when they got out of two high, Burrow made them pay immediately.

 

[cincygrad]

On D, we need some changes even outside our pathetic d-line situation. I love Hubbard and Bell, but I don't think either of them are capable starters anymore. I see no issue putting Battle in for Bell and counting on Gino Stone to do some heavy lifting with communication. He's a smart guy, has played in complicated defenses, and now has three games under his belt. Time for Bell to have more of an advisory role. Hubbard looks spent - The guy has had a nice career here and is a great captain, but he isn't brining anything to the team. They desperately need to find out what they have in Murphy when he comes back.

I also think they need to start considering making changes at linebacker. Wilson seems like he is flying around again after an off year last year, and Pratt certainly has his moments, but it seems like he is also making a bunch of mistakes. I never understand why we don't make more use out of ADG at linebacker, especially when playing a running QB.

Get the young guys in - See who is hungry. Clean house after the season.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Burrow was amazing last night and sliced up our horrible D just as I expected.

only path for a win for us was to score on every drive and somehow JD5 pulled it out. Hard to beat that for any team.

Was really sad to see the injury to your tackle, we lost Ekeler to a concussion and I despise the injury part of the game.

im sincerely cheering for y’all rest of the season.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I'll never understand the paradox by which Lou can fluster some of the best QBs in the league (Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes), but yet his team gets shredded by a rookie or a street FA once a season. It just doesn't make sense. I do wonder how much of last night was due to the defensive line issues. To me, he should have started using more man-to-man with CTB and Dax on the outside and then generated some rush off the blitz. It would have exposed the back-end a little, but it certainly wouldn't have been any easier than the pitch and catch game the Commanders enjoyed against that soft zone (as mentioned by @BKBroiler9000 ). My only explanation for why it didn't happen is that Lou figured he would get crushed in the run game. Regardless, the fact that they continued to play the same failed concepts all night means that they either are incapable of playing something else or that Lou is too stubborn. Either way, they only needed one damn stop and they couldn't do it.

I will defend Lou in that he is simply playing the cards he is dealt. It is not on him that the front office has ignored the d-line for two years. And pinned their hopes on 2 rookie DTs fixing an already atrocious run defense. That Duke Tobin sucks and can’t find one meaningful defensive starter in 4 straight drafts.

That said, Lou is the leader in that room. It’s his scheme. His message. His responsibility to have these guys ready to play. CTB didn’t pull his “college offense” quip out of thin air. It’s obvious that the Bengals coaches didn’t respect what Kingsberry/Daniels put on tape and preached that in film and figured they’d win playing “their way”.

Whether it’s hubris, ignorance or incompetence, this is the mentality that has plagued the Bengals coaching staff and front office as whole forever.

Honest question. Does Lou’s scheme even work when he doesn’t have a Jessie Bates or DJ Reader? He’s yet to prove he can coach around not having those two.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I love Lou - and he's had a hand in getting the guys they have....

So, if they are not capable of playing his scheme...then some of this falls flatly on him.

If they are not capable of playing this scheme - then he has to be the one to adjust. He's got to go outside of his box and do things he would prefer not to do.

If you can't get pressure with 4 guys, then you have to bring 5 or 6.

If you can't get your DL to clog lanes, then you have to bring guys to fill the lanes.

Regardless of the issues this defense faces - and some of it *might* be alleviated by guys returning from injury - the matter of the fact is - these are largely his guys, and he's either got to get them up to snuff on his scheme or he's going to have to take a good hard look in the mirror and realize that to get the most out of these guys, he may need to be the one to adjust.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'll never understand the paradox by which Lou can fluster some of the best QBs in the league (Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes), but yet his team gets shredded by a rookie or a street FA once a season. It just doesn't make sense. I do wonder how much of last night was due to the defensive line issues. To me, he should have started using more man-to-man with CTB and Dax on the outside and then generated some rush off the blitz. It would have exposed the back-end a little, but it certainly wouldn't have been any easier than the pitch and catch game the Commanders enjoyed against that soft zone (as mentioned by @BKBroiler9000 ). My only explanation for why it didn't happen is that Lou figured he would get crushed in the run game. Regardless, the fact that they continued to play the same failed concepts all night means that they either are incapable of playing something else or that Lou is too stubborn. Either way, they only needed one damn stop and they couldn't do it.

It's hard for me to beat on the offense too much. How many games do you play where you don't turn it over, don't punt, and you score 4 touchdowns? But, they could have had more. Gesiki needs to make plays. I understand it was a hard catch on that 3rd down, but that's 3 big plays this season that Burrow put the ball on him and he didn't make the play. The other two times we failed to get a touchdown were due to Burrow - He missed the running back in the flat on one and he threw it just a touch too low for Chase on the other (you could argue that one was on Chase as Burrow put it in the only place for Chase to catch it and not take a big hit). This feels like nitpicks though.

I will say that the structure of our offense looks much different and is trending in the right direction. Tons of motion and efficient running let us get them out of two high a few times. And when they got out of two high, Burrow made them pay immediately.

How many games do you play where you don't turn it over, don't punt, and you score 4 touchdowns?

It has happened 26 times in the modern era. All 26 times the team that accomplished that won the game. Last night we became the first team in NFL to accomplish that feat and not get a win. The problem is, we faced one of the other teams that also did this and they got the win. That may have been one of the best combined offensive games in NFL history. Now, the score wasn't nearly as high as some games. The yards weren't there like others, but both team scored in the 30's, neither punted or had a turnover. The only failed drive in the entire game was McFear's missed FG. That missed FG and the non-call on defensive pass interference on Higgins for the two point conversion was the difference in the game. Now granted, no idea if the Bengals convert even if that was called accurately, but those 5 points are the difference.

As a Bengals fan, I am highly disappointed starting off 0-3. As a football fan, that was one of the best games I have ever watched from an offensive point of view.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I love Lou - and he's had a hand in getting the guys they have....

So, if they are not capable of playing his scheme...then some of this falls flatly on him.

If they are not capable of playing this scheme - then he has to be the one to adjust. He's got to go outside of his box and do things he would prefer not to do.

If you can't get pressure with 4 guys, then you have to bring 5 or 6.

If you can't get your DL to clog lanes, then you have to bring guys to fill the lanes.

Regardless of the issues this defense faces - and some of it *might* be alleviated by guys returning from injury - the matter of the fact is - these are largely his guys, and he's either got to get them up to snuff on his scheme or he's going to have to take a good hard look in the mirror and realize that to get the most out of these guys, he may need to be the one to adjust.

Yep. Same thing we’ve been saying about Taylor/Pitcher and the offense. And the adjustments finally bore fruit last night. It wasn’t perfect in the red zone. But the offense kept Washington on their toes. Never punted once. And played good enough to win 99.8% of NFL games.

It’s time for Lou to do the same. Jessie Bates is gone. DJ Reader is gone. Neither are coming back. Be an NFL coach and figure out a way to make it work.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yep. Same thing we’ve been saying about Taylor/Pitcher and the offense. And the adjustments finally bore fruit last night. It wasn’t perfect in the red zone. But the offense kept Washington on their toes. Never punted once. And played good enough to win 99.8% of NFL games.

It’s time for Lou to do the same. Jessie Bates is gone. DJ Reader is gone. Neither are coming back. Be an NFL coach and figure out a way to make it work.

Yep - Joe had his chances at a couple of TD's on nearly all the FG tries...and he flat missed a couple of them. Higgins was WIDE open on the one where he over threw him...Offense was fine - and I thought they ran the ball more (they did with 19 rushes).

Still think they can run a bit more, personally...they averaged nearly 9YPC for Brown on 7 rushes, and 4.8YPC for Moss on 12....that's some good running...But I digress for the moment because the offense wasn't really the issue....

The quality of a good coach, any coach, is to take a step back and objectively assess the situation at hand and pivot when needed. I think Lou is at this point - his guys aren't where they need to be yet and he needs to be willing to Pivot a bit.

Next week is going to be very telling, IMO, in how the defense is going to look going forward. If it's more of the same - that will be a nail in the coffin for this team. If there are changes (both good and or bad) at least we see and know - Lou gets it....we'll find out.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Burrow was amazing last night and sliced up our horrible D just as I expected.

only path for a win for us was to score on every drive and somehow JD5 pulled it out. Hard to beat that for any team.

Was really sad to see the injury to your tackle, we lost Ekeler to a concussion and I despise the injury part of the game.

im sincerely cheering for y’all rest of the season.

hopefully your offensive performance was not a fluke

 

[Caliskinsfan]

hopefully your offensive performance was not a fluke

It’s gonna have its ups and downs. Week to week league and health matters as y’all know very well.

We don’t have the excellent pro bowl caliber players that other A+ teams have. Next years draft is going to be critical. Our running game was hugely affected by Ekeler going out in the 3rd quarter. Production went way down in the run game.

Keeping JD5 healthy is another legit concern, especially given his frame. I’ve seen this before with RG3, encouraging note is JD5 really seems to be a passer first, huge difference.

time will tell the tale, we shall see

 

[cincygrad]

I will defend Lou in that he is simply playing the cards he is dealt. It is not on him that the front office has ignored the d-line for two years. And pinned their hopes on 2 rookie DTs fixing an already atrocious run defense. That Duke Tobin sucks and can’t find one meaningful defensive starter in 4 straight drafts.

That said, Lou is the leader in that room. It’s his scheme. His message. His responsibility to have these guys ready to play. CTB didn’t pull his “college offense” quip out of thin air. It’s obvious that the Bengals coaches didn’t respect what Kingsberry/Daniels put on tape and preached that in film and figured they’d win playing “their way”.

Whether it’s hubris, ignorance or incompetence, this is the mentality that has plagued the Bengals coaching staff and front office as whole forever.

Honest question. Does Lou’s scheme even work when he doesn’t have a Jessie Bates or DJ Reader? He’s yet to prove he can coach around not having those two.

I'd be okay with blaming the personnel, but it assumes that the coaches have nothing to do with the selections or development of those players. The fact that it took 2 years for them to determine that Dax Hill isn't best served as a free safety has more to do with coaching than it does with Dax. And there has been very little development of defensive linemen - Carter, Shelvin, Ossai, Sample, Kareem, Wren, Murphy, and then this year's picks.... All within the first 5 rounds and most have been disappointing. Sample is a reliable back-up when healthy and the jury is out on Murphy. The book is closed on Shelvin, Kareem, and Wren and it is barely open on Ossai and Carter. Maybe these were all terrible picks - But I certainly don't remember much grumbling about them being reaches when the picks were made.

Also - As good as Lou's defense was in the playoff run in 2021/2022, I think we need to remember there were multiple games during the regular season where the team was shredded. Like most defenses, Lou's unit plays best when we get turnovers and have success on third down. When neither of those things happen, the lack of talent and playmaking becomes apparent.

 

[DanBengalfan]

at this point, I don't see them trading any players or draft picks to bolster up the defensive line. that would be like a punch in the gut.
that's probably the only thing that would help at this point, other than putting some moronic play calling in check.

 

[Cincyfan78]

at this point, I don't see them trading any players or draft picks to bolster up the defensive line. that would be like a punch in the gut.
that's probably the only thing that would help at this point, other than putting some moronic play calling in check.

There was a trade idea floated out there...trading a TE, like Hudson though now he's hurt, for a DT...I can't remember which team it was to...it was intriguing....but with the expectation of Rankings, Hill, and McKinley returning sooner than later - an the recent addition of Guy - I don't think that is likely to occur.