Tourney Teams Not Respected

[Shanemansj13]

Those Florida seniors have been to 3 straight regional finals. They are a battled scarred group. My comparison was between Florida and WSU experience. I believe WSU has a new starter at PG. I think it is hard to say WSU brings in a team that is vastly more experienced than anything UK has seen, which was the original post I was commenting on.

UK has played 5 top 25 teams this year and three of those are Florida. They are 1-4. With the only win being at the very beginning of the season. This team has not played great competition especially being in the SEC. They are experienced in just playing a Florida team, it is not the same team they run a press, if you can break a press you can hurt Florida.

The more I think about this game the more I like WSU. UK had experience in playing in a bad conference all year, so they aren't much different than WSU except for the fact they have NO tourney experience.

 

[Codaxx]

UK has played 5 top 25 teams this year and three of those are Florida. They are 1-4. With the only win being at the very beginning of the season. This team has not played great competition especially being in the SEC. They are experienced in just playing a Florida team, it is not the same team they run a press, if you can break a press you can hurt Florida.

The more I think about this game the more I like WSU. UK had experience in playing in a bad conference all year, so they aren't much different than WSU except for the fact they have NO tourney experience.

First Florida is not the pressing, high speed menace they once were. KenPom ha UK with 27th SOS in the country, quite a respectable number. WSU is at 129. To put a little perspective on this SOS discussion, OSU is at 38. CBS has UK at #3. OSU #16. WSU @ #98. You need to rethink that last post

 

[Cincyfan78]

First Florida is not the pressing, high speed menace they once were. KenPom ha UK with 27th SOS in the country, quite a respectable number. WSU is at 129. To put a little perspective on this SOS discussion, OSU is at 38. CBS has UK at #3. OSU #16. WSU @ #98. You need to rethink that last post

I'm so tired of people pointing to SOS and RPI...that's all great and well, but eventually, don't you need to win some damn games? No offense to anyone, but just the same with Kansas. Great respect for their program, and they are a great team, but 9 losses is still 9 losses, especially when they were the higher ranked team in just about every one of those games...they have a great SOS, and RPI, but eventually, don't you have to win some games for that SOS to matter? Just a thought....

UK has almost zero experience compared to Wichita. Yes, Wichita has a new PG, who happens to be one of their best players. He is a sophmore, and was on that team last year to the Final Four run. As were 2 of the main Sr's that get time, as well as 2 Juniors, and another Sophmore.

UK has how many guys held over with NCAA tournament experience? 2, that barely played this year? Maybe a couple from last years great first round run to the NIT that lead to a loss to Robert Morris?

People are vastly underrated WSU's experience. Now, they could lose in round 1-2-3, but that doesn't negate the fact that, mostly, this team returns its players from a final four run a year ago, compared to UK who returns, what from an NIT 1st round loss.

UK's only win over a top 25 team was UL, if I am not mistaken, and that was well before they regained their inside game/form, and put it together to end the season. I'm not so sure UK would beat UL this time around.

 

[Codaxx]

I'm so tired of people pointing to SOS and RPI...that's all great and well, but eventually, don't you need to win some damn games? No offense to anyone, but just the same with Kansas. Great respect for their program, and they are a great team, but 9 losses is still 9 losses, especially when they were the higher ranked team in just about every one of those games...they have a great SOS, and RPI, but eventually, don't you have to win some games for that SOS to matter? Just a thought....

UK has almost zero experience compared to Wichita. Yes, Wichita has a new PG, who happens to be one of their best players. He is a sophmore, and was on that team last year to the Final Four run. As were 2 of the main Sr's that get time, as well as 2 Juniors, and another Sophmore.

UK has how many guys held over with NCAA tournament experience? 2, that barely played this year? Maybe a couple from last years great first round run to the NIT that lead to a loss to Robert Morris?

People are vastly underrated WSU's experience. Now, they could lose in round 1-2-3, but that doesn't negate the fact that, mostly, this team returns its players from a final four run a year ago, compared to UK who returns, what from an NIT 1st round loss.

UK's only win over a top 25 team was UL, if I am not mistaken, and that was well before they regained their inside game/form, and put it together to end the season. I'm not so sure UK would beat UL this time around.

Winning or losing games has 0 to do with your Strength of schedule, so no. I dont even understand what you are trying to say here. Another poster said UK played in a terrible league and as a result had a terrible SOS. I simply pointed out that was patently incorrect.

Nobody said UK matched experience with WSU. I disagreed with the assertion that UK has not faced a team with WSU's experience. I mentioned the PG, because while one of the better players he was not a starter on that run last yr. Its quite different than Wilbekin and his 30+ minutes a game last yr when it comes to experience.

I dont understand denigrating UK for a lack of top 25 wins, when their opponent has 0. That is just intellectually disingenuous.

 

[jonvi]

I dont understand denigrating UK for a lack of top 25 wins, when their opponent has 0. That is just intellectually disingenuous.

Translation:

Blasting UK for no T25 wins when WSU ain't got none neither is bullshit.

Triple negative....gotta have it.

 

[Shanemansj13]

First Florida is not the pressing, high speed menace they once were. KenPom ha UK with 27th SOS in the country, quite a respectable number. WSU is at 129. To put a little perspective on this SOS discussion, OSU is at 38. CBS has UK at #3. OSU #16. WSU @ #98. You need to rethink that last post

I am not talking SOS, because it is flawed IMO. Ohio St played in B1G and they played a weak non-conference. UK played in the weakest major conference in the nation and played a tough non-conference. So the majority of the year they played inferior/crappy competition except Florida. That is why I didn't even look at SOS, they weighed the SOS on played a couple good non-conference teams AND FLORIDA 3 times. When you play the number 1 team 3 times your SOS is going to be seriously flawed.

The fact is when UK played tough competition in tight games they failed. If you can't win the close games you won't be a good tourney team.

 

[Codaxx]

Translation:

Blasting UK for no T25 wins when WSU ain't got none neither is bullshit.

Triple negative....gotta have it.

Actually blasting them for having 1 top 25 win is complete BS when WSU has not even played a top 25 team.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Winning or losing games has 0 to do with your Strength of schedule, so no. I dont even understand what you are trying to say here. Another poster said UK played in a terrible league and as a result had a terrible SOS. I simply pointed out that was patently incorrect.

Nobody said UK matched experience with WSU. I disagreed with the assertion that UK has not faced a team with WSU's experience. I mentioned the PG, because while one of the better players he was not a starter on that run last yr. Its quite different than Wilbekin and his 30+ minutes a game last yr when it comes to experience.

I dont understand denigrating UK for a lack of top 25 wins, when their opponent has 0. That is just intellectually disingenuous.

Winning and SOS does go together to a point. What is the point of having the #1 SOS in the NCAA if you end up losing 1/2 your games?

The point of the SOS, in theory, is so that you can point to your victories as being more signifigant over another teams' victories, over lesser competition. If you play a harder schedule but lose...that only helps you for so long, until you lose so many games.

I'm not blasting UK for no top 25 wins, I was just pointing out that fact.

 

[Codaxx]

I am not talking SOS, because it is flawed IMO. Ohio St played in B1G and they played a weak non-conference. UK played in the weakest major conference in the nation and played a tough non-conference. So the majority of the year they played inferior/crappy competition except Florida. That is why I didn't even look at SOS, they weighed the SOS on played a couple good non-conference teams AND FLORIDA 3 times. When you play the number 1 team 3 times your SOS is going to be seriously flawed.

The fact is when UK played tough competition in tight games they failed. If you can't win the close games you won't be a good tourney team.

This is basically verbal moon walking. This is filed under the "top 25 wins" comments. It is completely asinine to question UK's schedule compared to WSU.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Winning or losing games has 0 to do with your Strength of schedule, so no. I dont even understand what you are trying to say here. Another poster said UK played in a terrible league and as a result had a terrible SOS. I simply pointed out that was patently incorrect.

Nobody said UK matched experience with WSU. I disagreed with the assertion that UK has not faced a team with WSU's experience. I mentioned the PG, because while one of the better players he was not a starter on that run last yr. Its quite different than Wilbekin and his 30+ minutes a game last yr when it comes to experience.

I dont understand denigrating UK for a lack of top 25 wins, when their opponent has 0. That is just intellectually disingenuous.

You must not be understanding. WSU rwn through some of top teams last year and now they have the same team, more experience. UK is young and besides playing Florida have basically no experience. I don't understand your argument of UK beating WSU when they have less experience playing good teams than WSU has in one year of the tourney.

Everyone is undervaluing WSU's experience. Experience is the most important single thing in tourney play.

 

[Codaxx]

Winning and SOS does go together to a point. What is the point of having the #1 SOS in the NCAA if you end up losing 1/2 your games

The point of the SOS, in theory, is so that you can point to your victories as being more signifigant over another teams' victories, over lesser competition. If you play a harder schedule but lose...that only helps you for so long, until you lose so many games.

I'm not blasting UK for no top 25 wins, I was just pointing out that fact.

SOS was only brought up after someone questioned UK's level of competition. I used a thing called facts to disagree with that assertion. Quoting SOS to argue against a poster questioning a team's level of competition is simple logic.

No you were pting to UK's lone top 25 victory as a negative in a discussion about WSU and UK. Again complete BS.

 

[Shanemansj13]

This is basically verbal moon walking. This is filed under the "top 25 wins" comments. It is completely asinine to question UK's schedule compared to WSU.

No so you are saying playing the number 1 team doesn't skew SOS rankings. Well it does, that's why the numbers you brought up are right, but they are misunderstood.

UK got an 8 seed for a reason. Everybody realized they played inferior competitiok literally the whole year. The difference is WSU, although having a much weaker schedule, didn't lose a game.

 

[Shanemansj13]

SOS was only brought up after someone questioned UK's level of competition. I used a thing called facts to disagree with that assertion. Quoting SOS to argue against a poster questioning a team's level of competition is simple logic.

No you were pting to UK's lone top 25 victory as a negative in a discussion about WSU and UK. Again complete BS.

You can only use facts so long. It won't tell who wins the game. You brought up SOS to boost a reason why UK should win, but the facts are like he said you can play all the top teams in the country but if you can't win games or close games it does no good.

UK has proved they can play close games against top teams, but they also proved THEY CAN'T WIN THEM.

 

[Cincyfan78]

SOS was only brought up after someone questioned UK's level of competition. I used a thing called facts to disagree with that assertion. Quoting SOS to argue against a poster questioning a team's level of competition is simple logic.

No you were pting to UK's lone top 25 victory as a negative in a discussion about WSU and UK. Again complete BS.

It is a negative. If you play the #1 team or the #100 team, if you lose, you lose. So, trying to point out that UK had a harder schedule is kind of a moot point when they didn't win.

 

[Codaxx]

You must not be understanding. WSU rwn through some of top teams last year and now they have the same team, more experience. UK is young and besides playing Florida have basically no experience. I don't understand your argument of UK beating WSU when they have less experience playing good teams than WSU has in one year of the tourney.

Everyone is undervaluing WSU's experience. Experience is the most important single thing in tourney play.

I completely acknowledged WSU's experience. You said UK has not seen a team with that kind of experience. I simply pted out that 3 of Florida's starters have had playing time in 3 straight trips to the regional finals. I have never heard this experience theory. You can understand as a fan of UK basketball, how I would doubt experience being the single biggest factor in the tourney. I would think a OSU fan would concur given the magical Conley and Oden run. It is helpful, but far from the most important factor. That said I have always maintained that UK could lose in round 1 or come together and make the Final 4. It is what makes them so interesting this yr.

 

[Cincyfan78]

You can only use facts so long. It won't tell who wins the game. You brought up SOS to boost a reason why UK should win, but the facts are like he said you can play all the top teams in the country but if you can't win games or close games it does no good.

UK has proved they can play close games against top teams, but they also proved THEY CAN'T WIN THEM.

Boom!

Should have read this before I posted. Couldn't agree more. Eventually, it's great to play a tougher schedule, but if you don't win...what does it matter.

 

[Codaxx]

It is a negative. If you play the #1 team or the #100 team, if you lose, you lose. So, trying to point out that UK had a harder schedule is kind of a moot point when they didn't win.

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you are going into strange territory. Not only is it wrong, because loses can help you gauge a teams quality, it is not even relevant to my post. SOS was not given as a qualitative measure of UK, but simply to discredit the notion that UK played a poor schedule.

 

[Codaxx]

You can only use facts so long. It won't tell who wins the game. You brought up SOS to boost a reason why UK should win, but the facts are like he said you can play all the top teams in the country but if you can't win games or close games it does no good.

UK has proved they can play close games against top teams, but they also proved THEY CAN'T WIN THEM.

This is complete BS. I brought up SOS to show how ignorant your assertion that UK played a poor schedule was, especially in light of WSU's schedule

 

[sonnyblack65]

I think what is great about teams like Wichita St and for example Butler when they made back-to-back tourney runs. They know how to survive and they are great at taking it one game at a time and just scraping out games to win.

The only teams I see having a chance to beat WSU is an experienced and smart team like for say Michigan St or Louisville. Athletic only takes you so far when you are playing good defensive squad that limits mistakes and plays a halfcourt battle.

And two of the best college coaches in Pitino and Izzo

 

[Shanemansj13]

I completely acknowledged WSU's experience. You said UK has not seen a team with that kind of experience. I simply pted out that 3 of Florida's starters have had playing time in 3 straight trips to the regional finals. I have never heard this experience theory. You can understand as a fan of UK basketball, how I would doubt experience being the single biggest factor in the tourney. I would think a OSU fan would concur given the magical Conley and Oden run. It is helpful, but far from the most important factor. That said I have always maintained that UK could lose in round 1 or come together and make the Final 4. It is what makes them so interesting this yr.

Regardless, I agree they could win 5 games or win 0 games. Everyone is looking past this Kansas St team that barely lost to Iowa St in the Big 12 tourney where they shot lights out. I wouldn't be suprised if KSU won, but if UK could just bring back these freshman they could be a contender for the Final 4 EVERY YEAR. It makes me mad because tOSU went through a stretch like that, where they all went to the NBA.