Top Tight Ends - ESPN Insider

[dkmightyhammer]

College? Are you quoting COLLEGE stats? Must be talking about a rookie QB. No? Hmm, that's odd that you still refer to his college stats to claim he can do something in the NFL. Something that he hasn't actually done in the NFL.

Yes except for his college stats were among the best ever. Plus I didn't just quote college stats, I also mentioned his NFL record setting TD record. At both levels he's proven he can sling the ball but people still won't give him any credit for his arm. By the way, he's 2nd all time, behind Rodgers, for the highest QBR in NFL history for QB's throwing at least 1000 passes. The guy has a great arm, and probably a way better football brain, but all people focus on is his legs.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

College? Are you quoting COLLEGE stats? Must be talking about a rookie QB. No? Hmm, that's odd that you still refer to his college stats to claim he can do something in the NFL. Something that he hasn't actually done in the NFL.

Ryan Leaf was a pretty good college QB.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Ryan Leaf was a pretty good college QB.

How were his NFL stats compared to Wilson's? I mentioned both. I'm fully aware college stats aren't always the best indicator of how good a QB is or can be. However, given the fact that Wilson has only a limited amount of NFL years to look at (all are great by the way) I think it's fair to mention college stats. He was second behind Drew Brees in College for cripes sake. That has to mean a little bit?!?

The truth is Wilson's NFL numbers could stand on their own, and in a couple more years they probably will, but for now I'm just pointing out that at the two highest levels of football Wilson has excelled. Not sure why anyone would have an issue with this.

 

[flyerhawk]

Here is why it is so important. The reason you need your TE to be able to block as well is it makes teams have to gameplan all the more. Again the Broncos had a Graham clone pretty much in Julius Thomas. Teams knew exactly what they were going to do just based off of Julius Thomas being in the game. This is why Bronco fans couldn't wait for him to be gone honestly. He was terrible at blocking at it about got a few of our guys hurt when he was asked to block. He just flat out whiffed on a few blocks that got Manning hit and our RB's hit very quickly. That first time Graham whiffs on a block you will be seeing what I am talking about of how much not having your TE block can hurt your team. Now yes there is some major upside as their receiving ability especially around the goal line is huge and hardly stoppable so not saying there isn't some great upside to having a talent like Graham but there are some major downsides to it too. It is why for me there are a lot of TE's that I would take over Graham on my team right now. They are not the receiving threat that he is but they are the better all-around guys that make it that much harder to stop your team on every single play not just some of the plays.

Fair points. I think the key to utilize players like Graham, or Thomas for that matter, in the best way possible.

Personally I see the Seahawks running a lot of quick rollouts with Graham doing a quick chip and releasing and forcing his man to make a choice. I don't expect to see him in a lot of straight power running plays but, truth be told, the Seahawks don't really run a lot of power running plays. Mostly misdirection plays with Wilson and expecting Beast to break a tackle and make a play.

I completely understand why you would want a more complete TE. The Broncos have an elite receiver and a potent attack. A guy like Thomas is a luxury that can cost you if he can do his job in blocking scheme. For the Seahawks, Graham is immediately the best receiver on the team. He also opens up the field for Luke Willson. For the Seahawks, Graham is arguably the best TE they could get not named Gronk.

 

[flyerhawk]

College? Are you quoting COLLEGE stats? Must be talking about a rookie QB. No? Hmm, that's odd that you still refer to his college stats to claim he can do something in the NFL. Something that he hasn't actually done in the NFL.

I won't reference college since I mostly agree with you about that, but I fail to grasp why people think that Wilson can't throw the ball 40 times. Do they think his arm will get tired?

Wilson has shown that he is more than capable of stepping up and chucking the ball when asked to. The Seahawks simply don't ask him to very often.

 

[Tgann69]

My fantasy football sleeper!

This kid showed up at TC 15 lbs/muscle bigger,faster, and has been catching everything in sight. I am going with him too in the late rounds....

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

This kid showed up at TC 15 lbs/muscle bigger,faster, and has been catching everything in sight. I am going with him too in the late rounds....

I drafted him in 2 leagues, but I left him alone in others. He'll be a waiver target before long so I'll have to pick him up before he becomes too valuable.

 

[JMR]

Wilson's dump-offs? Funny stuff some goofballs write on this site. RW is among tops in the NFL over the past few years in YPA. He is not a small ball passer.

If blocking ability knocks Graham so far down the list, why aren't blocking TEs getting paid? TEs who can dominate in the passing game are rare and significantly more valuable than plodding blockers who wear a # in the 80s.

 

[Tgann69]

I drafted him in 2 leagues, but I left him alone in others. He'll be a waiver target before long so I'll have to pick him up before he becomes too valuable.

Yeah I am takin Bryant from the Steelers kids upside is huge... He could have that breakout year.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Yeah I am takin Bryant from the Steelers kids upside is huge... He could have that breakout year.

Don't wait much after the 3rd Rd. I've seen him taken as high as the 3rd. 6th or 7th was the lowest that I've seen him taken.

 

[Tgann69]

Don't wait much after the 3rd Rd. I've seen him taken as high as the 3rd. 6th or 7th was the lowest that I've seen him taken.

I get it his upside is huge... Speed size and can catch...

 

[GNG]

And to think I got attacked by proud Seahawks fans for saying Jason Witten is superior to Jimmy Graham.

Witten is superior to Graham. Knowledgeable NFL fans know this.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I believe the list said most complete TEs. Which Witten is a complete TE (even blocks in a FB spot)
I don't think anyone is saying Graham isn't a top pass catching TE, but he isn't a complete TE at all, so why would he be on that list?
If someone said they wanted Graham over Witten as a pass catching TE, that would be understandable.
If you want a useful TE for the other 500 snaps, taking Witten over Graham would be understandable.

BTW I think whoever thought patriot haters would be dogging on Gronk, being #1. Think you underestimated the respect Gronk gets from other teams fans.
As far as TEs, there is Gronk then way down the list everyone else right now.

I am glad see a list for Blocking TEs. Those guys never get any kudo's.

 

[Manster7588]

Wilson's dump-offs? Funny stuff some goofballs write on this site. RW is among tops in the NFL over the past few years in YPA. He is not a small ball passer.

If blocking ability knocks Graham so far down the list, why aren't blocking TEs getting paid? TEs who can dominate in the passing game are rare and significantly more valuable than plodding blockers who wear a # in the 80s.

One of his money plays is to roll out and wait for the man guarding his receiver 7 or so yards beyond the LOS to step towards Wilson then lob it over to the wide open reciever.

 

[Uhsplit]

I am good with having JG on this team and we will see if he can become more "complete".
I haven't heard squat regarding any updates on JG's blocking prowess.
That could be good or bad.

 

[JMR]

I believe the list said most complete TEs. Which Witten is a complete TE (even blocks in a FB spot)
I don't think anyone is saying Graham isn't a top pass catching TE, but he isn't a complete TE at all, so why would he be on that list?
If someone said they wanted Graham over Witten as a pass catching TE, that would be understandable.
If you want a useful TE for the other 500 snaps, taking Witten over Graham would be understandable.

BTW I think whoever thought patriot haters would be dogging on Gronk, being #1. Think you underestimated the respect Gronk gets from other teams fans.
As far as TEs, there is Gronk then way down the list everyone else right now.

I am glad see a list for Blocking TEs. Those guys never get any kudo's.

No one has a problem with the "most complete" snub....though usually that's just a way to prop up some guys who are pretty good at everything but great at nothing.

The beef is that Graham doesnt even appear in the top 4 best pass catchers. That's absurd and comical.

 

[fordman84]

No one has a problem with the "most complete" snub....though usually that's just a way to prop up some guys who are pretty good at everything but great at nothing.

The beef is that Graham doesnt even appear in the top 4 best pass catchers. That's absurd and comical.

Really? the first reply is a Seahawk fan talking shit about Witten being #2 on this most complete TE. If you are going to say things like "no one has a problem" with something, you should make sure that you aren't wrong right out of the gate.

 

[Manster7588]

No one has a problem with the "most complete" snub....though usually that's just a way to prop up some guys who are pretty good at everything but great at nothing.

The beef is that Graham doesnt even appear in the top 4 best pass catchers. That's absurd and comical.

Maybe the deducted points for Graham because he thinks he's a part time TE.

 

[JMR]

Really? the first reply is a Seahawk fan talking shit about Witten being #2 on this most complete TE. If you are going to say things like "no one has a problem" with something, you should make sure that you aren't wrong right out of the gate.

I guess you aren't really grasping the concept of the "most complete" aspect of that first list. I do agree Graham is a better TE than Witten, but I also agree Witten is "more complete" as a player. He's just not better, as in making a list of top 10 TEs (with no qualifiers), Graham is showing up over Witten on the vast majority of the lists. Again, this is some made up contest to give guys credit for being a jack of all trades. And to say Graham isnt a top 4 receiving TE is just silly.

 

[JMR]

Maybe the deducted points for Graham because he thinks he's a part time TE.

Yeah, who knows -- maybe the did.