Top 32 tournament C Torre vs Cochrane

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

Catcher Bracket is:

1 J Bench 13
32 R Ferrell 1

16 T Munson 6
17 W Schang 0

8 B Dickey 3 Dickey will advance on higher seed
25 R Campanella 3

9 G Harnett 6
24 L Parrish 0

4 C Fisk 10
29 J Clements 0

13 G Tenace 1
20 J Kendall 7

5 Y Berra 7
28 R Martin 0

12 B Ewing 2 advances on seed
21 R Bresnahan 2

3 I Rodriguez 8
30 D McGuire 0

14 J Mauer 8
19 J Posada 9

6 M Piazza 11
27 V Martinez 0

11 T Simmons 11
22 D Porter 0

2 G Carter 11
31 S Lollar 0

15 E Lombardi 7
18 B Freehan 4

7 J Torre 6
26 S Burgess 2

10 M Cochrane 4
23 J Sundberg 1

1 J Bench 11
16 T Munson 0

8 B Dickey 5
9 G Harnett 2

4 C Fisk 12
20 J Kendall 0

5 Y Berra 7
12 B Ewing 0

3 I Rodriguez 8
19 J Posada 1

6 M Piazza 10
11 T Simmons 2

2 G Carter 10
15 E Lombardi 1

7 J Torre
10 M Cochrane

1 J Bench
8 B Dickey

4 C Fisk
5 Y Berra

3 I Rodriguez
6 M Piazza

2 G Carter

 

[obxyankeefan]

Joe Torre Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Smokey Burgess 6-2

Mickey Cochrane Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Jim Sundberg 4-1

 

[obxyankeefan]

Had to go with Cochrane on Cali's rules. Torre only played 900 out of 2200 at catcher.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Had to go with Cochrane on Cali's rules. Torre only played 900 out of 2200 at catcher.

Only problem with that logic is that Torre played better defense in his 900 games than Cochrane did in his 2200...

From 1961-1970 Torre had a 3.4 dWAR with a high of 1.6, and 2 seasons over 1. in that span he played 90+ games at catcher all but 1 season...

BUT mickey was a better hitter than torre... SO mickey wins...

 

[calsnowskier]

Even with the split position for Torre, it is a close one. But with the bat, Torre only had 3 seasons ('64, '65, '66) over 130. Cochrane had 5 (with a 129 as well as a 135 when he only had 98 ABs).

I think it safe to say Torre was the better player. But this is about catchers, so I had to with Cochrane.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Even with the split position for Torre, it is a close one. But with the bat, Torre only had 3 seasons ('64, '65, '66) over 130. Cochrane had 5 (with a 129 as well as a 135 when he only had 98 ABs).

I think it safe to say Torre was the better player. But this is about catchers, so I had to with Cochrane.

why is that easy to say... I saw Cochrane to be the better hitter, and had better positional longevity at the most demanding position in baseball... Torre was better defensively, but not significant enough to compensate for Cochrane's advantage...

 

[calsnowskier]

Looking at the players still around at catcher, I think Bench and Berra are the class, and they are set to face off in the semi's.

But it gets me thinking. Where would Posey be placed in a generic ranking? Based on the rankings for this tourney, the top 10 were...

Bench
Carter (great, but #2 all time?)
IRod
Fisk
Berra
Piazza
Torre
Dickey
Hartnett
Cochrane

Personally, I think I would rate it like this (without doing a ton of research)...

Bench
Berra
.
.
.
(Carter/IRod/Fisk/Posey)
Piazza
.
.
.

It is early for Posey, granted. But he has 5+ seasons under his belt with a ROY, MVP, 3 rings, 3 SS, 141 career OPS+ and is generally accepted to have ++ defense and is exceptional at handling a staff.

 

[calsnowskier]

why is that easy to say... I saw Cochrane to be the better hitter, and had better positional longevity at the most demanding position in baseball... Torre was better defensively, but not significant enough to compensate for Cochrane's advantage...

Torres time at 3B was top notch. He was less of a catcher, but when you ignore the catcher-specific topic, I think Torre was better. Not what this excercize is about, though. That's why I voted Cochrane.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Torres time at 3B was top notch. He was less of a catcher, but when you ignore the catcher-specific topic, I think Torre was better. Not what this excercize is about, though. That's why I voted Cochrane.

I think here we would agree to disagree... All Torre has over Cochrane is career longevity and seasonal longevity. And both of those longevities are due to playing the most demanding position less.
Again, I see cochrane's offense to be better than Torre.