Top 10 poll: #26 player in history - Runoff

[calsnowskier]

Runoff for the #26 player in baseball history. Poll closes Tuesday AM.

Spoiler: Tags

@navamind @LHG
@steveringo @broncosmitty @packerzrule
@jarntt @redseat
@black francis @molsaniceman @Fountain City Blues
@Used 2 B Hu @MilkSpiller22
@CitySushi @Clayton @UK Cowboy
@Beengay fudgepackers @Hbomb @Maximus Rex
@Pure Steel @jon2tanman @Boglodyte
@nynasty @Hank Kingsley @Wamu
@Robotech @kcden @jwolt92
@Sportsguy9695 @DHoey @chillerdab
@DorianRo @socaljim242
@msgkings322 @Cedrique @BigFin
@catman @omarsrevenge @rmilia1
@obxyankeefan @femurov @Nosferatu
@Maverick426h @TheGoodMan19 @Bodega
@blstoker @Diamondeye @trojanfan12
@mr.hockey4242 @Janus @VikingFan2k2
@Stakesarehigh @eaglesnut @boogiewithstu2007
@SF11704 @Hunter Montana

 

[calsnowskier]

Not to interrupt this riveting discussion, but…

Robinson
Berra
Mathewson
Koufax

 

[eaglesnut]

Way to split the pitcher vote!

 

[Clayton]

Way to split the pitcher vote!

There are 3 position players and 2 pitchers

I do think ARod vs pitcher is a likely final. Possibly for awhile.

 

[eaglesnut]

There are 3 position players and 2 pitchers

I do think ARod vs pitcher is a likely final. Possibly for awhile.

Just complaining because Arod is currently leading lol

 

[MilkSpiller22]

let me ask yall a question...


the popularity bonus, which i agree should be taken into account...

but who is that popular player from this century?? that face of baseball...

maybe Miggy??

 

[LHG]

let me ask yall a question...


the popularity bonus, which i agree should be taken into account...

but who is that popular player from this century?? that face of baseball...

maybe Miggy??

Why should popularity play a part in determining the best players in baseball?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Why should popularity play a part in determining the best players in baseball?

everything should be part of the ultimate formula... how heavily you weigh it is another story... but i do think there is something to being the face of a sport...

MLB tried to push trout... but he was so dry and boring, that there is a reason that he is not the FACE of the league...


being a villain is just as important...

its clear that Ohtani owns this title now...

 

[LHG]

everything should be part of the ultimate formula... how heavily you weigh it is another story... but i do think there is something to being the face of a sport...

MLB tried to push trout... but he was so dry and boring, that there is a reason that he is not the FACE of the league...


being a villain is just as important...

its clear that Ohtani owns this title now...

But what does popularity add to the player's abilities on the field? I thought we were looking for the best players to have played, not the most likeable or most popular. That seems like a different poll.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But what does popularity add to the player's abilities on the field? I thought we were looking for the best players to have played, not the most likeable or most popular. That seems like a different poll.

not much... and for the most part what they do on the field is what makes them popular... but sometimes if we can define why someone got so popular we can see that maybe they did something on the field differently that we just dont know how to calculate yet...

i mean, i have made it clear that i look at post seasons... and some of you dont... there are many things out there... if we can see why someone is so popular, we can use better and more accurate statisitcs...

for example Griffey Jr.... he was seen to be the best CLEAN or CLEANEST player... using adjusted stats where the tainted players were just going to drag down his adjusted stats, is not really doing him justice... at least not according to the argument given for him...

 

[DHoey]

That's the beauty of baseball, you can't have a "face" of it. You can try but you just look silly. The NFL touts it's quarterback vs quarterback which is stupid.

The team is the face, from the 90's-2000 Yankees to the Astros and then the Dodgers now. Winners are easy to hate. Easy to root against. That's what makes baseball baseball.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

That's the beauty of baseball, you can't have a "face" of it. You can try but you just look silly. The NFL touts it's quarterback vs quarterback which is stupid.

The team is the face, from the 90's-2000 Yankees to the Astros and then the Dodgers now. Winners are easy to hate. Easy to root against. That's what makes baseball baseball.

i dont agree with you... Jeter was the face of that yankees team... he got almost all the love(Rivera was a close 2nd), but he also got all the Hate...

ohtani has been the face of baseball ever since he came to the league, and now is the face of the dodgers... just like he was last season...

but what is odd to me, is that i just cant pinpoint who was the face of baseball of the early 2000s to ohtani... sure Judge is doing a good job too with the popularity, but he aint reaching Ohtani levels(for obvious reasons)..

Griffey Jr was the good guy vs an era of evil...


but i feel like pujols and trout were both kind of skipped on the HERO aspect... i even would bet that many casual fans would say Miguel Cabrera was better than Pujols... just because Miggy was more likeable- which i am not sure why yet...

Trout just never stole fans hearts...

 

[LHG]

not much... and for the most part what they do on the field is what makes them popular... but sometimes if we can define why someone got so popular we can see that maybe they did something on the field differently that we just dont know how to calculate yet...

i mean, i have made it clear that i look at post seasons... and some of you dont... there are many things out there... if we can see why someone is so popular, we can use better and more accurate statisitcs...

for example Griffey Jr.... he was seen to be the best CLEAN or CLEANEST player... using adjusted stats where the tainted players were just going to drag down his adjusted stats, is not really doing him justice... at least not according to the argument given for him...

I will concede that post season play can play a part on players who otherwise seem equal in value but I think some give it too much of an edge, more into the realm of popularity based on post season heroics. In other words, there is production and then there is added myth to production. It seems that some give a player a big boost because of post season.
Take, for example, Whitey Ford. There is legend around his post season production and that seems to bump him much higher in the conversation than he should be. Yes, he just came up in the conversation but there are at least a half dozen other pitchers to consider, on top of the probably two dozen hitters.
Of course, I'd say that Ford and Koufax are probably very similar in career production and Koufax gets a huge bump because his 4 best seasons came in a row and it caused his arm to give out. Maybe Ford should get the bump over Koufax because of post season production but I haven't compared the two's post season play so I don't know if that should be the case.

 

[eaglesnut]

let me ask yall a question...


the popularity bonus, which i agree should be taken into account...

but who is that popular player from this century?? that face of baseball...

maybe Miggy??

Manny

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I will concede that post season play can play a part on players who otherwise seem equal in value but I think some give it too much of an edge, more into the realm of popularity based on post season heroics. In other words, there is production and then there is added myth to production. It seems that some give a player a big boost because of post season.
Take, for example, Whitey Ford. There is legend around his post season production and that seems to bump him much higher in the conversation than he should be. Yes, he just came up in the conversation but there are at least a half dozen other pitchers to consider, on top of the probably two dozen hitters.
Of course, I'd say that Ford and Koufax are probably very similar in career production and Koufax gets a huge bump because his 4 best seasons came in a row and it caused his arm to give out. Maybe Ford should get the bump over Koufax because of post season production but I haven't compared the two's post season play so I don't know if that should be the case.

koufax had 4 WS titles but 2 of them were within those final 5 seasons where he was a beast... and he was a beast in those WS series...


i definitely consider post season much more than just a tie breaker... but the problem is that all of the next top pitchers all have post season success while they were also BPOT...

 

[DHoey]

i dont agree with you... Jeter was the face of that yankees team... he got almost all the love(Rivera was a close 2nd), but he also got all the Hate...

ohtani has been the face of baseball ever since he came to the league, and now is the face of the dodgers... just like he was last season...

but what is odd to me, is that i just cant pinpoint who was the face of baseball of the early 2000s to ohtani... sure Judge is doing a good job too with the popularity, but he aint reaching Ohtani levels(for obvious reasons)..

Griffey Jr was the good guy vs an era of evil...


but i feel like pujols and trout were both kind of skipped on the HERO aspect... i even would bet that many casual fans would say Miguel Cabrera was better than Pujols... just because Miggy was more likeable- which i am not sure why yet...

Trout just never stole fans hearts...

I don't agree with you The Yankees were a group of Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Bernie, Pettite. Home grown talents, with big free agents brought in.

I don't think Ohtani is the face of baseball. I think of Freddie Freeman's (perfect) toothy smile, Mookie and Kershaw.

When it's April through July, sure they will try and pimp the popular name. But come September and October, the face is the face, whether it be Altuve (gross), Justin Turner, Kenley Janson, whoever.

I will admit that seeing Ohtani vs Trout in the WBC was fantastic.

Trout hasn't done dick in the postseason, one 3 and out in his career. Hard to be loved when you aren't around in October

 

[msgkings322]

let me ask yall a question...


the popularity bonus, which i agree should be taken into account...

but who is that popular player from this century?? that face of baseball...

maybe Miggy??

Most popular/face of baseball was Jeter (and Pujols) for the 2000s, for the 2010s it was Posey and Trout and Harper, 2020s Ohtani and Judge obviously

 

[msgkings322]

But what does popularity add to the player's abilities on the field? I thought we were looking for the best players to have played, not the most likeable or most popular. That seems like a different poll.

I think it's not so much 'popularity' as the idea that there are measures of greatness that don't show up in the numbers. Emotions matter too with these things, it's a sport after all, it's not a math exam. It makes perfect sense to me that we use things other than pure numbers to judge Henderson and ARod and DiMaggio and Griffey when listing the greatest players in the sport's history. The romance of baseball is one of its key aspects.

Obviously that factor should only be a smallish influence...Derek Jeter and Buster Posey and others will never make the top 30 or even 50 just because of that stuff, but to give a little tie breaker when considering multiple worthy names, nothing wrong with it

 

[calsnowskier]

Well, the good thing about these last couple rounds is that completely bad choices are getting removed from the nomination pool…

 

[broncosmitty]

ARod should be long gone by now.