POLL Top 10 poll #17: #17 player in history - Runoff

[calsnowskier]

Sure, but the difficult part here is that Speaker put 15 OPS+ seasons above 140. Pujols 12. DiMaggio 11 above 139. Pedro 11 seasons of ERA+ above 140. Maddux only has 10 seasons of ERA+ above 140.

Just the optics of living through each era, I'd imagine fans would think Speaker was the best. Certainly if DiMaggio hadn't been in the war he'd be right there.

Is that fair to the pitchers? Probably not. Pedro in general has one of the best primes ever, really.

I think we essentially agree. Going pitcher or hitter can not be argued objectively. That is really an opinion. My opinion is that there are 2 pitchers as BPA, with Speaker sitting at #3. You have Speaker at BPA. Certainly within the opinion gray area.

 

[calsnowskier]

So pujols having a 59 war7 to me is better than speaker’s 61 war7. Because it is so close.

A delta of 2 in WAR or WAR7 is essentially a tie. I 100% agree.

 

[calsnowskier]

Probably the most interesting thead I have ever had the pleasure of reading on thrse boards. Just amazing. A much more complicated task than I ever imagined. Very difficult to actually try and work through the selection process.

IBut I do have one question that I never saw actually addressed. Comparing players from different eras is a very very difficult tasl at best. Very hard to actually compare statistics from different eras but how does the poll address players from different leagues (prior to segration). There were some excellent players in the old ***** leagues. Some of the players mentioned here came from that league. I personallty wonder where Josh Gibson would fall in this poll. In some circles he is considered as the best player to ever play the game. Not sure I would agree but his overall performance statistics are something to be considered.. Just not sure how to look at players from a different league. That was also active at that time.

There are, imho, 3 players who need to be considered from the N-Leagues. Gibson, Paige and Charleston. Charleston is the only player who has ever gotten even a single vote from this process. Unfortunately, we have a huge hole in that regard because it happened a long time ago and there are very limited verifiable stats and very little video from them playing.

Hard to vote into ignorance.

 

[calsnowskier]

Probably the most interesting thead I have ever had the pleasure of reading on thrse boards. Just amazing. A much more complicated task than I ever imagined. Very difficult to actually try and work through the selection process.

IBut I do have one question that I never saw actually addressed. Comparing players from different eras is a very very difficult tasl at best. Very hard to actually compare statistics from different eras but how does the poll address players from different leagues (prior to segration). There were some excellent players in the old ***** leagues. Some of the players mentioned here came from that league. I personallty wonder where Josh Gibson would fall in this poll. In some circles he is considered as the best player to ever play the game. Not sure I would agree but his overall performance statistics are something to be considered.. Just not sure how to look at players from a different league. That was also active at that time.

And this thread is pretty tame when compared to this project as a whole. This discussion has been going on EVERY DAY for about 3 months now.

INCREDIBLY educating.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

There are, imho, 3 players who need to be considered from the N-Leagues. Gibson, Paige and Charleston. Charleston is the only player who has ever gotten even a single vote from this process. Unfortunately, we have a huge hole in that regard because it happened a long time ago and there are very limited verifiable stats and very little video from them playing.

Hard to vote into ignorance.

Hell, we’ve had trouble including pitchers. How were we ever going to include non major league players??

 

[calsnowskier]

Hell, we’ve had trouble including pitchers. How were we ever going to include non major league players??

I even included Oh in the early stages. But it is impossible to judge him against Major Leaguers. It is very unlikely that the quality of baseball in Japan at that time was anywhere near the Majors, so he essentially dominated AA baseball.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Pujols vs speaker is kind of similar to Martinez vs maddux

Pedro and Pujols have the better resume when on top

Maddux and Speaker have the longer prime...

 

[calsnowskier]

Pujols vs speaker is kind of similar to Martinez vs maddux

Pedro and Pujols have the better resume when on top

Maddux and Speaker have the longer prime...

Still time to go, but right now, it is the two longevity guys looking to advance.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Big salaries have definitely made players softer to injuries(in lack of a better term because I don’t think players are soft).

But I really want to statistically prove that length of prime and career longevity has gotten much harder. There are many reasons for this hypothesis to be true.

I already ding most eras for this and ignore lots of longevity. But I don’t have proof to this yet.

 

[calsnowskier]

Big salaries have definitely made players softer to injuries(in lack of a better term because I don’t think players are soft).

But I really want to statistically prove that length of prime and career longevity has gotten much harder. There are many reasons for this hypothesis to be true.

I already ding most eras for this and ignore lots of longevity. But I don’t have proof to this yet.

It is hard to stay hungry when you eat filet mignon every night.

 

[calsnowskier]

Looks pretty set that this will be a Speaker v Maddux runoff.

My guess is that Maddux will get the Martinez voters, making it a 11-10 vote, then the 6 votes for Pujols and DiMaggio would decide it.

This is a good race.