POLL Top 10 poll: #25 player in history - Runoff 2

[calsnowskier]

Runoff for the #25 player in baseball history. Poll closes Sunday AM.

Spoiler: Tags

@navamind @LHG
@steveringo @broncosmitty @packerzrule
@jarntt @redseat
@black francis @molsaniceman @Fountain City Blues
@Used 2 B Hu @MilkSpiller22
@CitySushi @Clayton @UK Cowboy
@Beengay fudgepackers @Hbomb @Maximus Rex
@Pure Steel @jon2tanman @Boglodyte
@nynasty @Hank Kingsley @Wamu
@Robotech @kcden @jwolt92
@Sportsguy9695 @DHoey @chillerdab
@DorianRo @socaljim242
@msgkings322 @Cedrique @BigFin
@catman @omarsrevenge @rmilia1
@obxyankeefan @femurov @Nosferatu
@Maverick426h @TheGoodMan19 @Bodega
@blstoker @Diamondeye @trojanfan12
@mr.hockey4242 @Janus @VikingFan2k2
@Stakesarehigh @eaglesnut @boogiewithstu2007
@SF11704 @Hunter Montana

 

[calsnowskier]

If ARod doesn’t win this, he will never win.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If ARod doesn’t win this, he will never win.

I disagree. Griffey acts as the exact opposite as arod.

If anything this is Griffey’s best chance to win in the next 10 picks.


Arod is always going to be the best player available. And Griffey is the most likable player available.

 

[Clayton]

If ARod doesn’t win this, he will never win.

I feel this might actually be his hardest remaining matchup. Mr Cheat vs Mr Clean

edit - ninja'd

That said, ARod is out to a huge lead.

 

[eaglesnut]

If ARod doesn’t win this, he will never win.

I can vote for him evenrually. He's just not above Griffey.

 

[calsnowskier]

I feel this might actually be his hardest remaining matchup. Mr Cheat vs Mr Clean

edit - ninja'd

That said, ARod is out to a huge lead.

You can’t make any predictions about the vote until AT LEAST 5 PM PST

 

[calsnowskier]

Ken Griffey Jr (CF) 1989 - 2010

1 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 2 top 10 MVP, 3 additional seasons with MVP votes, 13 ASG, 10 GG, 7 SS

83.8, 54.0

Bold: WAR 3, RBI 1, HR 4, R 1, TB 2

OPS+ buckets

200 - 0
180 - 0
160 - 3
140 - 5
120 - 4

Alex Rodrigues (SS/3B) 1994 - 2016

3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 additional seasons with MVP votes, 14 ASG, 2 GG, 10 SS

117.6, 64.3

Bold: WAR 6, R 5, RBI 2, HR 5, 2B 1, H 1, OPS 2, TB 4

OPS+ buckets

160 - 5
140 - 3
120 - 8

 

[Cedrique]

Ken Griffey Jr (CF) 1989 - 2010

1 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 2 top 10 MVP, 3 additional seasons with MVP votes, 13 ASG, 10 GG, 7 SS

83.8, 54.0

Bold: WAR 3, RBI 1, HR 4, R 1, TB 2

OPS+ buckets

200 - 0
180 - 0
160 - 3
140 - 5
120 - 4

Alex Rodrigues (SS/3B) 1994 - 2016

3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 additional seasons with MVP votes, 14 ASG, 2 GG, 10 SS

117.6, 64.3

Bold: WAR 6, R 5, RBI 2, HR 5, 2B 1, H 1, OPS 2, TB 4

OPS+ buckets

160 - 5
140 - 3
120 - 8

Yeah but there's like 50 shades of gray you could use with the steroid stuff. (damn, I like that expression "50 shades of gray" has anyone ever used that before?) One way you could go would be to vacate ARod's stats after 2005 and assume he had an unfair advantage over the majority of players for those years. Or you could ding him for those years and not count them as heavily. But if you take them out altogether it makes it pretty close. You take away an MVP, 3 top 10 finishes, 3 more seasons with MVP votes.
So you're kind of acting like Arod's career ended in 2005. So Griffey gets a little boost for longevity but not much because Griffey only played at an elite level for about a decade himself.


On a side note, speaking of guys who had shorter careers, I believe it is almost time to throw Shoeless Joe into the mix. He really only had 7-8 elite seasons so I definitely wouldn't pick him in the next few, but he should probably be on the ballot.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah but there's like 50 shades of gray you could use with the steroid stuff. (damn, I like that expression "50 shades of gray" has anyone ever used that before?) One way you could go would be to vacate ARod's stats after 2005 and assume he had an unfair advantage over the majority of players for those years. Or you could ding him for those years and not count them as heavily. But if you take them out altogether it makes it pretty close. You take away an MVP, 3 top 10 finishes, 3 more seasons with MVP votes.
So you're kind of acting like Arod's career ended in 2005. So Griffey gets a little boost for longevity but not much because Griffey only played at an elite level for about a decade himself.


On a side note, speaking of guys who had shorter careers, I believe it is almost time to throw Shoeless Joe into the mix. He really only had 7-8 elite seasons so I definitely wouldn't pick him in the next few, but he should probably be on the ballot.

Very good arguments. Maybe Jackson should start getting attention in the rotation…

 

[steveringo]

There are still outfielders left that are better than Griffey... based on only stats, Rodriguez gets the vote here...

 

[Sportsguy9695]

Griffey never took steroids! End of debate

 

[calsnowskier]

Griffey never took steroids! End of debate

That is a HUGE assumption.

 

[dudley laywicker]

cut the bullshit,willie mays is the all time goat.

 

[msgkings322]

cut the bullshit,willie mays is the all time goat.

We voted him #2, we have Babe Ruth as GOAT on this list.

 

[dudley laywicker]

We voted him #2, we have Babe Ruth as GOAT on this list.

i ain,t old enough to have seen him,but willie was the best i ever saw.johnny bench was the goat catcher imo.

 

[msgkings322]

i ain,t old enough to have seen him,but willie was the best i ever saw.johnny bench was the goat catcher imo.

Baseball has been around a very long time so we have to vote on players none of us ever saw.

Bench has a good case for GOAT catcher, some here think Yogi Berra is. To me it's a coinflip

 

[dudley laywicker]

Baseball has been around a very long time so we have to vote on players none of us ever saw.

Bench has a good case for GOAT catcher, some here think Yogi Berra is. To me it's a coinflip

that,s fair.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah but there's like 50 shades of gray you could use with the steroid stuff. (damn, I like that expression "50 shades of gray" has anyone ever used that before?) One way you could go would be to vacate ARod's stats after 2005 and assume he had an unfair advantage over the majority of players for those years. Or you could ding him for those years and not count them as heavily. But if you take them out altogether it makes it pretty close. You take away an MVP, 3 top 10 finishes, 3 more seasons with MVP votes.
So you're kind of acting like Arod's career ended in 2005. So Griffey gets a little boost for longevity but not much because Griffey only played at an elite level for about a decade himself.


On a side note, speaking of guys who had shorter careers, I believe it is almost time to throw Shoeless Joe into the mix. He really only had 7-8 elite seasons so I definitely wouldn't pick him in the next few, but he should probably be on the ballot.

I just did some research on his test history. There are RUMORS that he failed a test in ‘06, but the rules stated that a player needed to fail twice for it to count as a positive test. He didn’t “legally” test positive until ‘13.

Going by that, and only whipping his numbers from ‘13 forward, it hardly makes a dent in his numbers. Really, all he loses is 1 down-ballot MVP vote.

 

[Sportsguy9695]

That is a HUGE assumption.

It never came out like it clearly has come out about Rodriguez. Never heard about jr

 

[msgkings322]

I just did some research on his test history. There a RUMORS that he failed a test in ‘06, but the rules stated that a player needed to fail twice for it to count as a positive test. He didn’t “legally” test positive until ‘13.

Going by that, and only whipping his numbers from ‘13 forward, it hardly makes a dent in his numbers. Really, all he loses is 1 down-ballot MVP vote.

This display of flexibility in your stance on ARod is very admirable. So many posters here (mainly the PF) find it impossible to adjust their takes no matter what happens LOL