POLL Top 10 poll: #24 player in history - Runoff 2

[MilkSpiller22]

And yet, Trout already has a superior WAR7 to Griffey.

Based on era though. Again, if you want to talk about Griffey being good you have to ignore adjustment stats.

he is not even next 10 if we solely look at war and ops+. So spouting out war#s are not helpful here.

 

[calsnowskier]

Based on era though. Again, if you want to talk about Griffey being good you have to ignore adjustment stats.

he is not even next 10 if we solely look at war and ops+. So spouting out war#s are not helpful here.

But I don’t give him any “clean points”…

This conversation is impossible if you are going to ignore the era in which a player played.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But I don’t give him any “clean points”…

This conversation is impossible if you are going to ignore the era in which a player played.

You don’t. But you are arguing with people that are either giving him clean points or bringing up other stats.

It’s kind of like if someone doesn’t believe in religion and you are using the Bible to prove them wrong.

 

[calsnowskier]

You don’t. But you are arguing with people that are either giving him clean points or bringing up other stats.

It’s kind of like if someone doesn’t believe in religion and you are using the Bible to prove them wrong.

LOL

Are you on the other site? I am kinda having that convo over there today.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

LOL

Are you on the other site? I am kinda having that convo over there today.

Nope.

 

[jon2tanman]

Griffeys glove was just as good as his bat, and if we are looking at WAR the center fielders were pretty damn good in the 90s. All that being said I didn't vote for the kid.

And yet, Trout already has a superior WAR7 to Griffey.

Sounds like a flawed stat.

 

[calsnowskier]

Griffeys glove was just as good as his bat, and if we are looking at WAR the center fielders were pretty damn good in the 90s. All that being said I didn't vote for the kid.

Sounds like a flawed stat.

While no stat is perfect, I think you may be forgetting how OMG Trout was in the ‘10s.

 

[jon2tanman]

While no stat is perfect, I think you may be forgetting how OMG Trout was in the ‘10s.

Trout is the modern-day Mickey Mantle , (minus the booze), and could have been a top 10 player of all time. With that being said a 7–8-year stretch shouldn't even be remotely close to the top 25 of all time, and It's the same ridicules argument that Otani is somehow in the top 25 because of his short and yet amazing career. Stats are meant to be perfect because they are stats and anything that skews from those facts should be looked at as flawed or fraudulent.

 

[calsnowskier]

Trout is the modern-day Mickey Mantle , (minus the booze), and could have been a top 10 player of all time. With that being said a 7–8-year stretch shouldn't even be remotely close to the top 25 of all time, and It's the same ridicules argument that Otani is somehow in the top 25 because of his short and yet amazing career. Stats are meant to be perfect because they are stats and anything that skews from those facts should be looked at as flawed or fraudulent.

He is only 33 and already has 13 years in the league. And he has already had 9 seasons of 6+ WAR. And his WAR7 AND career WAR are both higher than Griffey. It doesn’t matter what Trout does the rest of his career, he has ALREADY passed Griffey.

 

[broncosmitty]

I’m gonna have to be a no on Trout over Griffey dawg.

Trout came in at nearly prime. And prolly has a whole lot of meh left in his check cashing years. All ratios are sure to keep falling steadily.

He’s more like Koufax. Unless he salvages a few seasons of decent ball before he hangs it up. Cuz his career counting stats are just too lacking in comparison.

 

[Cedrique]

And yet, Trout already has a superior WAR7 to Griffey.

I'm not comparing Trout to Griffey I'm just saying plenty of guys who don't play on Astro Turf also get slowed down by injuries.

 

[calsnowskier]

I’m gonna have to be a no on Trout over Griffey dawg.

Trout came in at nearly prime. And prolly has a whole lot of meh left in his check cashing years. All ratios are sure to keep falling steadily.

He’s more like Koufax. Unless he salvages a few seasons of decent ball before he hangs it up. Cuz his career counting stats are just too lacking in comparison.

Koufax had 5 elite years in a 12 year career. Trout has 9 elite seasons in a 13 year career (so far). He is already twice the player Koufax was.

I am not saying Trout is ready for placement here at 24. I am, however, using Trout as a stick to beat Griffey. Griffey, for some unknown reason, is getting elevated well above his station.

If a vote for Griffey HERE is more of a vote AGAINST Lefty, well, OK, I guess. It is near impossible to compare a hitter to a pitcher. We established that a couple months back. But how is Griffey advancing this far so consistently over guys like Robinson, Ott, Trout, Yogi, etc?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

comparing Trout to Koufax or mantle is not a good comparison... both Koufax and Mantle have things to boost up their value... they have better BEST seasons, and they have elite WS appearances, with multiple WS titles...


if i had to compare Trout to someone from the past it would be Ralph Kiner... Trout is better... but that is the closest career arc comparison i can think of...

 

[jon2tanman]

He is only 33 and already has 13 years in the league. And he has already had 9 seasons of 6+ WAR. And his WAR7 AND career WAR are both higher than Griffey. It doesn’t matter what Trout does the rest of his career, he has ALREADY passed Griffey.

So Trouts best 7 years are better than Griffeys, and that's the basis of your comparison? What about defense? Playoff stats?

 

[calsnowskier]

So Trouts best 7 years are better than Griffeys, and that's the basis of your comparison? What about defense? Playoff stats?

Trout was a good defensive CF as well. And Griffey doesn’t bring much to the post season argument either.

Trout has the better top seasons AND the better career as a whole. Not JUST a better top 7 seasons.

 

[LHG]

So Trouts best 7 years are better than Griffeys, and that's the basis of your comparison? What about defense? Playoff stats?

Griffey did win 10 GGs early in his career. Trout does not have any.
Defensive metrics are far from perfect but it may still be good to look at a couple just for comparison purposes.
Griffey had a fielding percentage of .985 in his career, Trout is currently sitting on .995. But merely shows how they will able to handle plays in their range.
Griffey's 1st 14 years of dWAR are 0.6, 0.5, 1.0, -0.1, 0.9, 1.2, 1.5, 3.4, 1.9, 0.1, -0.9, 1.3, -0.9, -1.0
Trout's 14 years (career thus far) are -0.1, 2.0, -1.2, -0.7, 1.3, 1.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, -0.8, -0.3, 0.3, 0.4, -0.1
The aggregate dWAR for Griffey in this time period is 9.5
Trout's aggregate dWAR is 2.8

I'd say Griffey definitely has the defensive edge over Trout.

Griffey got to play in the postseason in 1995, 1997 and 2008. He hit a collective .290/.367/.580 in 79 PAs. All of that damage came in 1995.
Trout only got into the 2014 postseason and went .083/.267/.333 in 15 PAs.

Griffey also has the edge there but playing time for both in the postseason has been minimal so the edge is very slight.

I'd still go with Trout over Griffey.