Tony Gwynn vs Rod Carew

[eaglesnut]

Gwynn had a very interesting career revival from age 34 on when most players are trending down.

Age 34-40 his ops was significantly higher than it was from his “prime” athletic years from 28 to 32.

I wonder what it could have been. Must have been something in the water or the sunlight down in CA in the mid 90’s.

Not saying but I’m saying.

Are you saying WAR doesn't matter? Because his highest WARs were in the 80s according to those nerds.

Was getting fat part of his cover? He had 56 steals in 1987.

 

[msgkings322]

I'll go with Carew, he was Jewish

No wonder you keep voting Koufax!

 

[ducky]

Ive gotten much bigger and slower as ive gotten older, I also hit a softball with way more power than I used too past my prime years. Anecdotal sure, but this is a lot of guys. You really think he was juicing at that time? Crazy, I dont see it....but Obviously i dont know for sure

I think with all the juicing going on in baseball at that time, you would have to have a hell of a lot of faith to believe that his massive jump in numbers around the age of 34 and onward is just coincidental.

His best years were age 34 and up. And that is after showing a noticeable dip in production in his early 30's.

The only baseball players in history that aged that particular way was pretty much the steroid era guys. And now we all know why.

 

[Old Sweater]

Believing that Gwynn was clean is akin to believing the Bible is historically accurate.

I support your right to believe it even though all the evidence there is seems to point contrary to the belief.

Gwynn was one of the first steroid apologists. Always swore he was clean but admitted baseball had a big issue and was one of the 1st guys that brought up the "Greenies were worse" defense.

Not really. Gwynn wasn’t parting seas or rounding up the earth’s animal population by 2’s to stick on a boat he built. His weight gain was from eating too much but even fat weight will put more force on a batted ball.
My PED finger pointing goes to Kirby Puckett for players the public generally gives a PED free card.

 

[Janus]

No wonder you keep voting Koufax!

Nah, not that. I remember Koufax and in my opinion was a better pitcher than Pedro. I say this because if I had to put a pitcher on the mound for a critical game to go deep in the game, I would choose Koufax but hey, that's just my opinion.
It didn't hurt that he's Jewish though.

 

[broncosmitty]

Nah, not that. I remember Koufax and in my opinion was a better pitcher than Pedro. I say this because if I had to put a pitcher on the mound for a critical game to go deep in the game, I would choose Koufax but hey, that's just my opinion.
It didn't hurt that he's Jewish though.

Does his gayness factor in?

 

[UK Cowboy]

I will admit I made the comment without looking at the stats. It was all reactionary to my memory of seeing both players stats.

But i don’t look at ops and ops+ for players who have little power. It’s not there game.

Gwynn was an amazing batting average. Probably the best pure hitter in modern baseball history.

But with so little power, he needed a better obp. And he just didn’t walk enough.

Carew was better at getting on base and base running.

Still would take Carew over Gwynn. But will admit it js closer than my post made it sound.

Two great players, but definitely Gwynn. Gwynn struck out less than half as many times as Carew, for guys that are more average than power, that's a huge stat. Gwynn averaged 21 strikeouts per SEASON for his entire career. He walked almost twice as many times as he K'd. Insane stat

 

[Mebert]

It goes:
1. Mebert
2. Gwynn
3. Carew

True stat that is hard to believe, mebert never once struck out in the Majors, College, or even High School ball.

 

[UK Cowboy]

It goes:
1. Mebert
2. Gwynn
3. Carew

True stat that is hard to believe, mebert never once struck out in the Majors, College, or even High School ball.

I can believe that amazing stat lol

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Two great players, but definitely Gwynn. Gwynn struck out less than half as many times as Carew, for guys that are more average than power, that's a huge stat. Gwynn averaged 21 strikeouts per SEASON for his entire career. He walked almost twice as many times as he K'd. Insane stat

definitely insane stat... cant argue against that stat...

i would debate though that OBP is the king stat for players who dont have much power...

in that Carew has a higher career OBP with more PA...

he also lead the leage in OBP 4 times and was top 5 in the league another 5 times( 4,5)

compared to Gwynn who only lead the league once, but was top 5 5 more times...

Gwynn was top 10 4 more times(there were more teams in the league when Gwynn played).. (1,5) and(4)

and now RUNS which is the most important result for an on base guy

Carew lead the league once, and was top 5 4 more times (1,4)

Gwynn lead oncem and was top 5 one more time , top 10 3 more times (1,1) and (4)


that is pretty significant difference IMO...

 

[UK Cowboy]

definitely insane stat... cant argue against that stat...

i would debate though that OBP is the king stat for players who dont have much power...

in that Carew has a higher career OBP with more PA...

he also lead the leage in OBP 4 times and was top 5 in the league another 5 times( 4,5)

compared to Gwynn who only lead the league once, but was top 5 5 more times...

Gwynn was top 10 4 more times(there were more teams in the league when Gwynn played).. (1,5) and(4)

and now RUNS which is the most important result for an on base guy

Carew lead the league once, and was top 5 4 more times (1,4)

Gwynn lead oncem and was top 5 one more time , top 10 3 more times (1,1) and (4)


that is pretty significant difference IMO...

Runs are important, but Gwynn had more hits, doubles and HR's. Carew had more steals, but he was thrown out at a much higher clip stealing. So I would contend the runs had more to do with the guys around them. You can have a leadoff triple, but if your mates can get a fly ball or a grounder, you're probably not stealing home

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Runs are important, but Gwynn had more hits, doubles and HR's. Carew had more steals, but he was thrown out at a much higher clip stealing. So I would contend the runs had more to do with the guys around them. You can have a leadoff triple, but if your mates can get a fly ball or a grounder, you're probably not stealing home

i absolutely agree that runs are a team based stat that is given to the individual...

but you cant ignore that scoring runs were these 2 players most important job... they were not the guys to drive in runs... they were the guys to be driven in...

in both players main jobs... there is no doubt that Carew was better...

now if you want to say that Gwynn was better than Carew at doing other things... of course...

Gwynn was the better hitter, had more power, and was better at getting productive outs...

but here lies the question, do you want the better overall hitter or the better offensive player in their role??

make it a football question, you are deciding between 2 similar QBs... do you pick the QB that fits your system better, or the one that IF you do change your system the more likely to flourish??


and that is before bringing in baserunning and defense...

 

[UK Cowboy]

i absolutely agree that runs are a team based stat that is given to the individual...

but you cant ignore that scoring runs were these 2 players most important job... they were not the guys to drive in runs... they were the guys to be driven in...

in both players main jobs... there is no doubt that Carew was better...

now if you want to say that Gwynn was better than Carew at doing other things... of course...

Gwynn was the better hitter, had more power, and was better at getting productive outs...

but here lies the question, do you want the better overall hitter or the better offensive player in their role??

make it a football question, you are deciding between 2 similar QBs... do you pick the QB that fits your system better, or the one that IF you do change your system the more likely to flourish??


and that is before bringing in baserunning and defense...

It's splitting hairs. For me, as great as Carew was, if the game is on the line, I would take Gwynn, and that's my deciding factor. End of the game, 2 outs and he has to find a way on, im taking Gwynn over anyone I have seen play(56 and counting). There's no way he's striking out. He's going to either walk or hit a line drive. Pitcher is irrelevant, he's gonna hit the flame throwing or the junk baller all the same. The perfect 2 hole hitter

 

[MilkSpiller22]

It's splitting hairs. For me, as great as Carew was, if the game is on the line, I would take Gwynn, and that's my deciding factor. End of the game, 2 outs and he has to find a way on, im taking Gwynn over anyone I have seen play(56 and counting). There's no way he's striking out. He's going to either walk or hit a line drive. Pitcher is irrelevant, he's gonna hit the flame throwing or the junk baller all the same. The perfect 2 hole hitter

i would too... but thats because you want a hit... any hit...

but if it was bases loaded with 2 outs tie game... i would probably take carew...

 

[UK Cowboy]

i would too... but thats because you want a hit... any hit...

but if it was bases loaded with 2 outs tie game... i would probably take carew...

That situation, I want a hard hit ball in play or a walk. Carew would probably be the second option in my lifetime, with steroid era Barry easily number 3

 

[Janus]

Does his gayness factor in?

Pedro was gay?, no

 

[MilkSpiller22]

That situation, I want a hard hit ball in play or a walk. Carew would probably be the second option in my lifetime, with steroid era Barry easily number 3

idk about barry... in that situation teams wont fear the HR... so they will pitch to him... and any on base would work....

i might be overthinking this but i would rather wade Boggs than any more modern player

 

[UK Cowboy]

idk about barry... in that situation teams wont fear the HR... so they will pitch to him... and any on base would work....

i might be overthinking this but i would rather wade Boggs than any more modern player

I thought of Boggs as well as Brett. Here's the thing about Barry...he had a year where he hit .370 with an OBP of .582 for the SEASON. Thats more than .100 points higher than the best season on either Gwynn or Carews career. And he only struck out 46 times. In all honesty...I'm bumping him to #1

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I thought of Boggs as well as Brett. Here's the thing about Barry...he had a year where he hit .370 with an OBP of .582 for the SEASON. Thats more than .100 points higher than the best season on either Gwynn or Carews career. And he only struck out 46 times. In all honesty...I'm bumping him to #1

I know. But I don’t know whether his walks were more because the pitcher was afraid of a hr or if he just had other worldly skill to keep an at bat alive.

Boggs I think was better at fighting off pitches. With his contact skills.

When a walk has the same outcome as a home run the pitcher won’t fear the hr

 

[UK Cowboy]

I know. But I don’t know whether his walks were more because the pitcher was afraid of a hr or if he just had other worldly skill to keep an at bat alive.

Boggs I think was better at fighting off pitches. With his contact skills.

When a walk has the same outcome as a home run the pitcher won’t fear the hr

Agreed, but, the year before, when Bonds still hit nearly .330 and broke the HR record, he also set the record for walks and intentional walks. Meaning, if pitchers had other just said take your base, he likely hits 100 HR's SMH. If you are that zoned in squaring up baseballs, if all you need is to reach, the pitcher would need HOF level stuff and he could not miss his spot by a half inch