To sell or not to sell? Apologies to Shakespeare

[msgkings322]

So yeah I hear it and not just here...5 game losing streaks are disheartening

But can we all remember it's June 23? We are 3 games out of the 3rd WC and 4 games out of the 2nd...we were literally in the WC spot like 10 days ago, now we're at the 'bottom' of the pile of 8 teams all basically in the same situation? It ebbs and flows, marathon, etc etc

We have an entire month to keep trying and see if it turns around. Obviously by late July if you are 5 games under .500 and 3 games back with 6 teams ahead of you, ok pull the plug. This team and about 6 others are all about the same, it will come down to who takes a shot and makes a late run, I think that can still be us and we'll know in a month

What say you?

 

[calsnowskier]

I don’t think ANYONE has advocated for “selling” today. Of course, if we DO sell, it should be in mid-late July.

Right now, it looks like we SHOULD sell. But like I said elsewhere, what do we have that we are willing to part with that someone may want?

Soler MIGHT have some value. He has never looked this bad, and it could be reasoned that he just isn’t a fit here and a change will do him well.

Snell has always been a 2nd half pitcher. Maybe someone is willing to bet on that track record. But he has been nothing short f atrocious this year, and that isn’t even including his minor league blow up today.

Chapman might have some value as a clubhouse guy. His defense is a bit sporadic, but he makes that amazing plays. Plays that change games. That may be worth something.

No contender will pay anything for Ray for this year. It takes time for TJs to “get right”.

Maybe Conforto can fetch a low-A lotto ticket, but I would not hold my breath.

Slater, to the right team, might actually have value.

And finally, Doval. He could actually be a BIG trade piece. He still has the stuff. And he is under team control for a while longer, so he could actually return a bit of a kings ransom. And “elite” closers are EXPENSIVE at the deadline. I would be interested to see what his price tag could be.

 

[msgkings322]

My post is definitely about this selling discussion but it's also the mindset, there are people on this board and elsewhere already declaring the season over

We don't have to make that judgement yet and more evidence will come in, then we'll decide (as if it matters what we think here lol)

 

[SF11704]

So yeah I hear it and not just here...5 game losing streaks are disheartening

But can we all remember it's June 23? We are 3 games out of the 3rd WC and 4 games out of the 2nd...we were literally in the WC spot like 10 days ago, now we're at the 'bottom' of the pile of 8 teams all basically in the same situation? It ebbs and flows, marathon, etc etc

We have an entire month to keep trying and see if it turns around. Obviously by late July if you are 5 games under .500 and 3 games back with 6 teams ahead of you, ok pull the plug. This team and about 6 others are all about the same, it will come down to who takes a shot and makes a late run, I think that can still be us and we'll know in a month

What say you?

As a fan I agree with your position .... but it's a little difficult position to 'believe' in statistically. Since 2017 this team has posted a sub .500 season in all but 2 seasons. 2021 we won 107 and in 2022 we won 81. Sub .500 teams don't make the playoffs. This year seems to be following the sub .500 profile. We just can't seem to sustain the drive. Injuries are big part of this year's issues. Our strength should have been pitching but that hasn't quite happened. It's not over yet though. You have to at least wait till the end of July and than assess where we are.

But on the other side of the coin. Who do we really have that is marketable and what kind of a return do we actually receive? And just what do we do with that return? Will we just 'dump for salary sake or will there be some sort of talent acquisition involved in the process? Money will not resolve all of our issues. We need to acquire potential talent at a minimum.

IMHO .... my concern is what is our plan for the future? Haven't really seen one expect for this years 'win now' adventure. What does the front office really want to do over the next 2-3 years? This year we went all in with the signings of Chapman, Lee, Solar, Hicks and Snell. I've never been a fan of trying to 'buy' a playoff spot. I'd rather try and build for a sustainable long term run but I'm not sure how you can actually do that from where we are today. The Dodgers can approach this much differently than us. They have a very solid and productive core. Their approach is just to acquire solid long term pieces. That's how I view the Ohtani and Yamamoto signings. Just not sure how we actually can move forward from here. Maybe a 'win now' position is our only option? Without a deep talent pool I just don't see many other options ...

 

[Brightboat]

So yeah I hear it and not just here...5 game losing streaks are disheartening

But can we all remember it's June 23? We are 3 games out of the 3rd WC and 4 games out of the 2nd...we were literally in the WC spot like 10 days ago, now we're at the 'bottom' of the pile of 8 teams all basically in the same situation? It ebbs and flows, marathon, etc etc

We have an entire month to keep trying and see if it turns around. Obviously by late July if you are 5 games under .500 and 3 games back with 6 teams ahead of you, ok pull the plug. This team and about 6 others are all about the same, it will come down to who takes a shot and makes a late run, I think that can still be us and we'll know in a month

What say you?

The Diamondbacks came out of nowhere in the latter part of the season last year. With good health it’s possible the Giants could do it
You make a good point in that despite the fact that only two teams in the NL have a worse record, the Giants aren’t that far from getting back to a playoff spot because all those teams ahead of them are still pretty bunched up

 

[msgkings322]

The Diamondbacks came out of nowhere in the latter part of the season last year. With good health it’s possible the Giants could do it
You make a good point in that despite the fact that only two teams in the NL have a worse record, the Giants aren’t that far from getting back to a playoff spot because all those teams ahead of them are still pretty bunched up

That’s all I’m saying. Every year is a long story of ups and downs, it’s very rare for a team to just dominate all year unless they are in the level above like the Yankees and Phillies and Dodgers this year. And then the playoffs are a crapshoot where the best team doesn’t win all that much, as we learned when we won our titles.

Just play as well as you can this next month, get healthy, and be a buyer not a seller if they are still reasonably in the mix. Might not happen but way too soon to bail. They aren’t the Rockies or White Sox

 

[tzill]

I don’t think ANYONE has advocated for “selling” today. Of course, if we DO sell, it should be in mid-late July.

Right now, it looks like we SHOULD sell. But like I said elsewhere, what do we have that we are willing to part with that someone may want?

Soler MIGHT have some value. He has never looked this bad, and it could be reasoned that he just isn’t a fit here and a change will do him well.

Snell has always been a 2nd half pitcher. Maybe someone is willing to bet on that track record. But he has been nothing short f atrocious this year, and that isn’t even including his minor league blow up today.

Chapman might have some value as a clubhouse guy. His defense is a bit sporadic, but he makes that amazing plays. Plays that change games. That may be worth something.

No contender will pay anything for Ray for this year. It takes time for TJs to “get right”.

Maybe Conforto can fetch a low-A lotto ticket, but I would not hold my breath.

Slater, to the right team, might actually have value.

And finally, Doval. He could actually be a BIG trade piece. He still has the stuff. And he is under team control for a while longer, so he could actually return a bit of a kings ransom. And “elite” closers are EXPENSIVE at the deadline. I would be interested to see what his price tag could be.

I wouldn't trade Camilo, Slater, or Ray. I'll take all the lotto tickets for the other four though.

 

[tzill]

Giants are 22-53 over their last 75 road games, an unbelieveable .293 winning percentage covering close to a full year

 

[Brightboat]

I don’t think ANYONE has advocated for “selling” today. Of course, if we DO sell, it should be in mid-late July.

Right now, it looks like we SHOULD sell. But like I said elsewhere, what do we have that we are willing to part with that someone may want?

Soler MIGHT have some value. He has never looked this bad, and it could be reasoned that he just isn’t a fit here and a change will do him well.

Snell has always been a 2nd half pitcher. Maybe someone is willing to bet on that track record. But he has been nothing short f atrocious this year, and that isn’t even including his minor league blow up today.

Chapman might have some value as a clubhouse guy. His defense is a bit sporadic, but he makes that amazing plays. Plays that change games. That may be worth something.

No contender will pay anything for Ray for this year. It takes time for TJs to “get right”.

Maybe Conforto can fetch a low-A lotto ticket, but I would not hold my breath.

Slater, to the right team, might actually have value.

And finally, Doval. He could actually be a BIG trade piece. He still has the stuff. And he is under team control for a while longer, so he could actually return a bit of a kings ransom. And “elite” closers are EXPENSIVE at the deadline. I would be interested to see what his price tag could be.

Why would anyone want Slater? He's over 30 and has never been a full time starter in his career even on some pretty bad Giants teams. I don't think he's ever had 300 at bats in a season. If he was a player, he'd have shown it by now. Doval is the best trade piece they have but they need him.

 

[calsnowskier]

Why would anyone want Slater? He's over 30 and has never been a full time starter in his career even on some pretty bad Giants teams. I don't think he's ever had 300 at bats in a season. If he was a player, he'd have shown it by now. Doval is the best trade piece they have but they need him.

That isn’t what Slater is, and not what I said he was. He would be acquired as a bat off the bench against lefties. He won’t return a top 100 prospect, but he may return a decent prospect ready to debut in ‘25 (bench or lower-end starter)

 

[Brightboat]

That isn’t what Slater is, and not what I said he was. He would be acquired as a bat off the bench against lefties. He won’t return a top 100 prospect, but he may return a decent prospect ready to debut in ‘25 (bench or lower-end starter)

Ya, I’m not sure what the Giants see in the guy

 

[Hangman]

We are not a guy away from competing this season. We need to sell, but only a guy or two who can net us someone good 2 or 3 years from now. We have 2 outfielders set for a while. Lee and Ramos maybe we get a 3rd or get SS and move Luciano to LF which I think would be much better given how his defense is at SS.

 

[calsnowskier]

We are not a guy away from competing this season. We need to sell, but only a guy or two who can net us someone good 2 or 3 years from now. We have 2 outfielders set for a while. Lee and Ramos maybe we get a 3rd or get SS and move Luciano to LF which I think would be much better given how his defense is at SS.

I think Matos is a decent lock in the OF as well. I think he is trade fodder, though, because I don’t really see him as an all-star type, so I am game to deal him in a package for a difference maker.

 

[Brightboat]

With these last two wins the Giants passed up two teams in the standings

 

[LHG]

I know you all have been waiting for me to weigh in on this, so here it is:
We should wait. The WC race is very weird and the Giants are still in the thick of it. I don’t necessarily think they should be buyers, as this team is a lot of pieces short of being good but let’s wait until we get closer to the deadline to decide if players should be traded away.

 

[calsnowskier]

I know you all have been waiting for me to weigh in on this, so here it is:
We should wait. The WC race is very weird and the Giants are still in the thick of it. I don’t necessarily think they should be buyers, as this team is a lot of pieces short of being good but let’s wait until we get closer to the deadline to decide if players should be traded away.

And how deep the sell should cut.

I am primarily interested in if they deal Doval. We have other in-house options (either Rogers brother, Walker, Crawford, etc), and Doval could potentially fetch a HUGE haul.

 

[LHG]

And how deep the sell should cut.

I am primarily interested in if they deal Doval. We have other in-house options (either Rogers brother, Walker, Crawford, etc), and Doval could potentially fetch a HUGE haul.

I'm not so keen on trading Doval. He is having a down year, which does suppress his value, and unless the Giants go into full rebuild mode, it may still be needed next year. I'd rather have a stacked bullpen if the ownership goes win now next year.

 

[SF11704]

Just my 2 cents .... last year I feel they went all out trying to field a playoff team. They persued Lee, Chapman, Solar and Snell. Other than Snell all of these players have a multi year contract. Snell will easily be replaced by Ray/Cobb. In essence the same team should return in 2025 with the addition of Ramos' emergence. If they think the 2024 team is capable of attaining a playoff spot then they have to think that 2025 also falls into that category. It will all depend on what they actually think of this 2024 season. I just don't see a rebuild on the future. Some tweaking ... yes ... a rebuild .... no.

For me personally I felt that the pitching just hasn't played out as everyone hoped it would. Having both Ray and Cobb for a full year (healthy) I think will make a big difference.

 

[tzill]

And how deep the sell should cut.

I am primarily interested in if they deal Doval. We have other in-house options (either Rogers brother, Walker, Crawford, etc), and Doval could potentially fetch a HUGE haul.

I wouldn't trade him. 3 more years of control and he's already a borderline all star.

Of course, that would bring back a huge haul. I'd concentrate on dealing Conforto, Chapman, Soler and Snell.