This team's greatest weakness

[iknowftbll]

It's not the defense. Sure, the defense is not great. Contrary to what some here believe, nobody who is not panicking about the defense has accused them of being a lockdown unit. We recognize this defense has some work to do, but we also know they have the pieces to do it with. I can foresee this defense being a statistical disaster (it already is anyway) but a unit that is playing it's best ball as the season wraps up. While the defense is not great, it is not the teams greatest weakness, and it has not cost the Broncos any losses yet.

It is not the grout game, either. The Broncos ground game is below average at best, but it is not the factor that will hold this team back this year.

The single greatest thing that will undermine everything that is good about this team is turnovers. It's time to face it: the Broncos are a turnover-prone team. They had three apiece in their last two games, eight going back to the Dallas game. And all but one directly led to points for the opponent. The one that did not (Hilman's fumble on the 3 last night) erased a scoring opportunity that would have put the Broncos right back in it with over 4 minutes remaining.

In the last three games, the Cowboys scored 14 off of turnovers, the Jags scored 9, and the Colts scored 19.

These equate to free possessions for the opponent. If our offense/ST does their part, those opportunitiesnever even present themselves. Our defense is not good enough to shut down an opponent on a short field. With the talent this group has on offense it actually doesn't even need to be. That is, unless the team is going to continue to play sloppy with the ball and give it up.

The defense wouldn't look as bad as it does without this turnover problem. And that's not a problem with defense. It's the offense that is going to undermine this season unless they fix this turnover problem.

 

[Barrelman Fan]

It's kind of a good news bad news thing with the turnovers.

The bad news is, there's a lot of fumbles. ALOT. Manning's interception last night was more of a fumble with the DL getting a hand on it.

The good news is, the fumbles are pretty concentrated to four guys. Manning has lost 4, albeit 2 from the snap. Hillman has fumbled five and lost three. Ball has fumbled twice and lost both. And Holliday/Welker have lost two fumbles on punts. You've also got Decker with one and Julius I believe, but neither of those guys have really had problems in general.

So the solution is pretty simple. Don't give the ball to a RB not named Knowshon. Orlando should be healthy come playoff time and Chris Clark finally had one awful game, but other than that not worried about Manning's fumbles. Holliday is always a worry but his pros outweigh the cons. Same can't be said for either of the RBs.

 

[mcro_rave_2001]

really it's not your defense your team's offense is putting up over 40 points a game and it's not your defense? Sorry but the only problem i see for the Broncos is their defense. Turnovers goes for every team, no team is going to win consistently if they lose the TO battle, that's a simple fact of the game and it's not something Denver has to really concern themselves with right now. Right now i'd be more worried about that defense...IMO

 

[iknowftbll]

These are very good points. Limit Ball and Hillman's chances to sabotage their own team and you have mitigated most of the turnover problem. I realize Ball wasn't in last night, but I think he and Hillman need to be wearing street clothes next week just to send a message.

 

[iknowftbll]

really it's not your defense your team's offense is putting up over 40 points a game and it's not your defense? Sorry but the only problem i see for the Broncos is their defense. Turnovers goes for every team, no team is going to win consistently if they lose the TO battle, that's a simple fact of the game and it's not something Denver has to really concern themselves with right now. Right now i'd be more worried about that defense...IMO

Do the math: the Broncos gave up 19 points on three turnover and lost a scorin opportunity on a fourth when the game was still 36-30. Yes, the defense could be better, and I'm sure they will settle in through the second half of the season. But the Broncos take away just one of those turnovers and they win that game last night. Turnovers are a bigger problem than the defense.

 

[mcro_rave_2001]

These are very good points. Limit Ball and Hillman's chances to sabotage their own team and you have mitigated most of the turnover problem. I realize Ball wasn't in last night, but I think he and Hillman need to be wearing street clothes next week just to send a message.

okay now you're just being crazy Hilman only has 2 fumbles, yea, that' not great but i've seen worse, like AP.

 

[mcro_rave_2001]

Do the math: the Broncos gave up 19 points on three turnover and lost a scorin opportunity on a fourth when the game was still 36-30. Yes, the defense could be better, and I'm sure they will settle in through the second half of the season. But the Broncos take away just one of those turnovers and they win that game last night. Turnovers are a bigger problem than the defense.

that was only one game. JC, you had 6 other games that were damn near flawless.

 

[iknowftbll]

that was only one game. JC, you had 6 other games that were damn near flawless.

Did you not read the first post in this thread?

 

[mcro_rave_2001]

Did you not read the first post in this thread?

yes, it's not as bad as you're making it out to be, because it wasn't like a pick six or a fumble return for a TD. If they were i'd understand where you're coming from.

Here is an interesting stat about your defenses. if a team gets in the Red Zone VS. the Broncos 50% of the time that team is coming away with a TD.

 

[iknowftbll]

Two weeks in a row essentially half of the points scored against the Broncos have come off of turnovers. 9 of 19 for the Jags and 19 of 39 for the Colts. I don't know of any football universe where this cannot be considered a glaring weakness for an offense that puts it's defense in a bind like this.

Turnovers have a way of snowballing a game, too. You can't prove a negative, I realize, but do you honestly believe the broncos-cowboys game would have turned into the shootout it did had the Broncos first series not ended in a turnover? A turnover that led to a cowboys score on the ensuing series and a 14-0 score? I believe an early turnover like that changes the entire dynamic of the game. Consider the Broncos led 7-3 when Holliday gave it up inside the red zone. When you make it easy on the opponent, you can't hold it entirely against the defense when a team is able to exploit mistakes. Don't make them in the first place and it is probably an entirely different game.

 

[mcro_rave_2001]

Two weeks in a row essentially half of the points scored against the Broncos have come off of turnovers. 9 of 19 for the Jags and 19 of 39 for the Colts. I don't know of any football universe where this cannot be considered a glaring weakness for an offense that puts it's defense in a bind like this.

Turnovers have a way of snowballing a game, too. You can't prove a negative, I realize, but do you honestly believe the broncos-cowboys game would have turned into the shootout it did had the Broncos first series not ended in a turnover? A turnover that led to a cowboys score on the ensuing series and a 14-0 score? I believe an early turnover like that changes the entire dynamic of the game. Consider the Broncos led 7-3 when Holliday gave it up inside the red zone. When you make it easy on the opponent, you can't hold it entirely against the defense when a team is able to exploit mistakes. Don't make them in the first place and it is probably an entirely different game.

That goes for any team, not just the Broncos, but the Bronco have an offense that can over come those turnovers and if your defense was better those TO wouldn't matter as much.

 

[iknowftbll]

That goes for any team, not just the Broncos, but the Bronco have an offense that can over come those turnovers and if your defense was better those TO wouldn't matter as much.

4 turnovers yesterday. 3 against the Jags. 2 giants the Cowboys. 42 points of of the ensuing free possessions. Turnovers absolutely are the biggest problem this team needs to fix.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Two weeks in a row essentially half of the points scored against the Broncos have come off of turnovers. 9 of 19 for the Jags and 19 of 39 for the Colts. I don't know of any football universe where this cannot be considered a glaring weakness for an offense that puts it's defense in a bind like this.

Turnovers have a way of snowballing a game, too. You can't prove a negative, I realize, but do you honestly believe the broncos-cowboys game would have turned into the shootout it did had the Broncos first series not ended in a turnover? A turnover that led to a cowboys score on the ensuing series and a 14-0 score? I believe an early turnover like that changes the entire dynamic of the game. Consider the Broncos led 7-3 when Holliday gave it up inside the red zone. When you make it easy on the opponent, you can't hold it entirely against the defense when a team is able to exploit mistakes. Don't make them in the first place and it is probably an entirely different game.

You both have valid arguments. However, here's a question to pose: If our defense wasn't having problems, wouldn't it make sense that SOME of those scores on turnovers would be mitigated to FG's? Holliday had a viscious strip. But last season that was less likely to become a TD than it is this season. Something changed. (And no, it isn't Dumervil). I'm wondering if Del Rio's system is compromised. What if opposing offenses have figured out what he's trying to do? Would explain a lot.....

 

[Broncosballer32]

It's not the defense. Sure, the defense is not great. Contrary to what some here believe, nobody who is not panicking about the defense has accused them of being a lockdown unit. We recognize this defense has some work to do, but we also know they have the pieces to do it with. I can foresee this defense being a statistical disaster (it already is anyway) but a unit that is playing it's best ball as the season wraps up. While the defense is not great, it is not the teams greatest weakness, and it has not cost the Broncos any losses yet.

It is not the grout game, either. The Broncos ground game is below average at best, but it is not the factor that will hold this team back this year.

The single greatest thing that will undermine everything that is good about this team is turnovers. It's time to face it: the Broncos are a turnover-prone team. They had three apiece in their last two games, eight going back to the Dallas game. And all but one directly led to points for the opponent. The one that did not (Hilman's fumble on the 3 last night) erased a scoring opportunity that would have put the Broncos right back in it with over 4 minutes remaining.

In the last three games, the Cowboys scored 14 off of turnovers, the Jags scored 9, and the Colts scored 19.

These equate to free possessions for the opponent. If our offense/ST does their part, those opportunitiesnever even present themselves. Our defense is not good enough to shut down an opponent on a short field. With the talent this group has on offense it actually doesn't even need to be. That is, unless the team is going to continue to play sloppy with the ball and give it up.

The defense wouldn't look as bad as it does without this turnover problem. And that's not a problem with defense. It's the offense that is going to undermine this season unless they fix this turnover problem.

It is the OL. That is the biggest weakness.

The fact is Manning has only thrown 3 ints on the season. Fumbles are one thing. It is not good. Hillman is pretty bad. Holliday is a fumbler, and for all the things he does that are good, it comes with us holding our breath every time he fields a punt or kick. Plus, his football IQ does not seem to be all that high. The fact is Moreno has not fumbled the ball at all.

The biggest problem with this team right now is the OL. It finally came up and bit the Broncos. We cannot as fans assume that losing the 3 best OLinemen would not hurt. It will and it will again. It effected the short yardage offense as well as causing the fumble on Manning.

It is what it is, and that is the deal. There will be games where the defense needs to make plays and keep teams from scoring 25 points.

 

[iknowftbll]

Walker, I do agree that if the defense were better these turnovers would be less a problem. But the defense has had it's moments this year where It has been pretty stout. With the exception of last night and the Cowboys game they have been pretty solid.

There are legitimate concerns on the defense, no doubt. But their best player is back, and they should have Ayers and Woody back next week. Miller should be hitting full stride after the bye week. Losing Champ again is not good news, but then again, the secondary is really no worse off without him. I am confident this defense is going to find it's feet coming out of the bye and be in a good rhythm down the stretch.

I am also confident the Broncos will fix the turnover issue. We have already identified a big part of the problem, now all they need to do is follow through and have Hillman on Moreno jockstrap duty for a few weeks.

 

[Broncosballer32]

You both have valid arguments. However, here's a question to pose: If our defense wasn't having problems, wouldn't it make sense that SOME of those scores on turnovers would be mitigated to FG's? Holliday had a viscious strip. But last season that was less likely to become a TD than it is this season. Something changed. (And no, it isn't Dumervil). I'm wondering if Del Rio's system is compromised. What if opposing offenses have figured out what he's trying to do? Would explain a lot.....

That viscous strip does not happen if Holliday carried the ball in the hand he is suppose to.

 

[iknowftbll]

Bb32, you are right about the line. Keep in mind we should have Franklin back next week. That will help stabilize it a bit.

 

[Broncosr0k]

I will admit the defense has issues but the offense was not helping out last night. How many short drives or 3 and outs happened last night?

Speaking about weaknesses our defense was very confused last night. Multiple times I saw DRC shrugging his shoulders before the play because he had no idea what was going on.

Last night kind of turned into a comedy of errors.

 

[Malibu]

Walker, I do agree that if the defense were better these turnovers would be less a problem. But the defense has had it's moments this year where It has been pretty stout. With the exception of last night and the Cowboys game they have been pretty solid.

There are legitimate concerns on the defense, no doubt. But their best player is back, and they should have Ayers and Woody back next week. Miller should be hitting full stride after the bye week. Losing Champ again is not good news, but then again, the secondary is really no worse off without him. I am confident this defense is going to find it's feet coming out of the bye and be in a good rhythm down the stretch.

I am also confident the Broncos will fix the turnover issue. We have already identified a big part of the problem, now all they need to do is follow through and have Hillman on Moreno jockstrap duty for a few weeks.

Sorry but Robert Ayers played yesterday.

 

[Malibu]

I do agree on the thread pertaining to last nights game. The o line injuries, turnovers and the defense are all issues. The order doesnt really matter because all 3 need to be fixed to make the Super Bowl.