This team can't evaluate this position

[Xponentialchaos]

J.J. Stokes??? Really???

You mean the same J.J. Stokes who was drafted 10th overall and had his best year go for 770 yards? The same J.J. Stokes who we traded up for in exchange for a ton of draft picks? Yea, he was a GREAT pickup.

 

[Arete Tzu]

Did someone say J.J. Stokes?

 

[sjballer03]

steve young made slowkes a lot of money

 

[Flyingiguana]

J.J. Stokes??? Really???

You mean the same J.J. Stokes who was drafted 10th overall and had his best year go for 770 yards? The same J.J. Stokes who we traded up for in exchange for a ton of draft picks? Yea, he was a GREAT pickup.

he opened things up for TO...

 

[darken65]

So we've hit on 3 in the last 30 years. I think that kind of reaffirms Sick's original point. How many WRs have we drafted since Rice?

I'd even include Crabtree and give you 4 in the last 30 years.

It is almost as if WRs are an afterthought for the 9ers' F.O. for many years now with the execption of Crabtree.When was the last time the 9ers were ranked in the top ten for receiving yards?

 

[imac_21]

steve young made slowkes a lot of money

There was a time when you (along with X) were one of Stokes' biggest supporters on the internet.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Crabtree turned out pretty well.

Even then, Crabtree was a McCloughan draft pick.

 

[Kinzu]

Crabtree turned out pretty well.

Didn't we draft Brandon Lloyd? Sure he didn't really do anything for us, but he went on to be a late bloomer and had some really seasons with other teams. It would not surprise me to see AJ Jenkins end up a late bloomer as well. He has the hands and naturally fluid motion to play the position at a high level. He just needs to get his confidence going. They say 3 years for a WR to really develop right? That means next year should be his year to breakout if it's going to happen.

Teams that can't evaluate QB's
Oakland
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Arizona
Denver
Kansas City
Chicago
Minnesota
Tampa Bay
Houston

Teams that may have finally evaluated a QB to get off the list
Miami
Buffalo
Washington
NY Jets

I'm basing this off how long it's been since these franchises drafted a legit QB or even a legit backup QB. A few of these clubs have been in desperate need of a QB but keep missing out. Teams like KC, DEN, and HOU make the list because draft wise they have been awful at finding QB's. It took a trade or free agent signing to put a bandaid on their issues.

 

[imac_21]

Didn't we draft Brandon Lloyd? Sure he didn't really do anything for us, but he went on to be a late bloomer and had some really seasons with other teams. It would not surprise me to see AJ Jenkins end up a late bloomer as well. He has the hands and naturally fluid motion to play the position at a high level. He just needs to get his confidence going. They say 3 years for a WR to really develop right? That means next year should be his year to breakout if it's going to happen.

I would say Lloyd had one really good year and one good year (the year he went from Denver to StL. His 3rd best season was arguably his second year with us.

He also showed a lot more than Jenkins did his first two years.

As fr WRs taking 3 years o develop, I don't think that's true anymore. I think pro and college offenses have come a lot closer together in the last 10-12 years and it doesn't take WRs nearly that long to adjust to the NFL.

Ditto for QBs.

Teams are smarter about finding ways to use the talent they have rather than trying to force that talent into the offense they have.

 

[imac_21]

Teams that can't evaluate QB's
Oakland
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Arizona
Denver
Kansas City
Chicago
Minnesota
Tampa Bay
Houston

Teams that may have finally evaluated a QB to get off the list
Miami
Buffalo
Washington
NY Jets

I'm basing this off how long it's been since these franchises drafted a legit QB or even a legit backup QB. A few of these clubs have been in desperate need of a QB but keep missing out. Teams like KC, DEN, and HOU make the list because draft wise they have been awful at finding QB's. It took a trade or free agent signing to put a bandaid on their issues.

I don't think Denver belongs on this list. Griese was good for them, especially as a 3rd round pick, than they drafted Cutler. QB really isn't a fair position to look at in a discussion like this because if you hit on one, then you don't have to worry about your ability to evaluate the position. How good is NE at evaluating QBs? They gave Tom Brady a 6th round grade, which is a poor evaluation, and haven't had to worry about it for a dozen years. How good is Indy? They fell into Peyton first overall, then fell into Luck first overall. Does evaluating Andrew Luck as an elite prospect really say anything about their front office?

And there's the issue of changing the front office. With QB a GM/coach usually only gets one chance to evaluate a QB. If they're wrong, they get fired before they can reset, if they're right they have a guy for a dozen years.

I think SF probably belongs on the second list as well. Look at how many misses we had between Young and Kaepernick (off the top of my head):
Druckenmiller
Carmazzi
Rattay
Dorsey
Doman
Pickett
Davis
Smith

 

[Kinzu]

Montana, Smith, and Kaepernick through the draft is not bad though. That's 3 starting QB's which works out to 1 every decade. We don't hit on every one we draft but no one does that for any position. When you add in the trade for Steve Young and signing of Jeff Garcia it's hard to say the 49ers are not good at finding QB's. We've essentially turned out 5 starting caliber QB's in the last 34 years. You could even stretch that to 6 or 7 if you count Steve Deberg and Elvis Grbac. How many other franchises have discovered that many QB's in the same time span?

 

[Flyingiguana]

There was a time when you (along with X) were one of Stokes' biggest supporters on the internet.

he was a solid #2 in our wco.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Montana, Smith, and Kaepernick through the draft is not bad though. That's 3 starting QB's which works out to 1 every decade. We don't hit on every one we draft but no one does that for any position. When you add in the trade for Steve Young and signing of Jeff Garcia it's hard to say the 49ers are not good at finding QB's. We've essentially turned out 5 starting caliber QB's in the last 34 years. You could even stretch that to 6 or 7 if you count Steve Deberg and Elvis Grbac. How many other franchises have discovered that many QB's in the same time span?

yup each decade we found a pro bowl calibre qb. kap should get to the pro bowl eventually.

 

[imac_21]

Montana, Smith, and Kaepernick through the draft is not bad though. That's 3 starting QB's which works out to 1 every decade. We don't hit on every one we draft but no one does that for any position. When you add in the trade for Steve Young and signing of Jeff Garcia it's hard to say the 49ers are not good at finding QB's. We've essentially turned out 5 starting caliber QB's in the last 34 years. You could even stretch that to 6 or 7 if you count Steve Deberg and Elvis Grbac. How many other franchises have discovered that many QB's in the same time span?

Alex Smith first overall. In their evaluations that year they decided he was better than Aaron Rodgers.

If you add in trades and free agent signings you may have to re-visit your list of teams that can't evaluate the QB position. You have Arizona on your "can't evaluate" list, yet they managed to add one of the best QBs in the last 10 years with Kurt Warner.

Look at Atlanta:

Brett Favre
Chris Chandler
Michael Vick
Matt Schaub (you counted Grbac)
Matt Ryan

You have Denver on your list.
In 83 they drafted Elway, who made the Pro Bowl many times for them;
they replaced him with Griese, who made the Pro Bowl as a Bronco;
they replaced him with Plummer who made the Pro Bowl as a Bronco;
they replaced him with Cutler who made the Pro Bowl as a Bronco;
they replaced him with Orton, then Tebow;
they replaced Tebow/Orton with Peyton Manning who made the Pro Bowl as a Bronco (and will again).

If Denver can't evaluate QBs, no one can. Except maybe Indy who went Harbaugh -->Manning-->Luck.

 

[imac_21]

he was a solid #2 in our wco.

So Steve Young made him a lot of money. . .

he opened things up for TO

But he was a solid #2?

When was he ever the #2?

As a rookie 4 guys had more catches (Rice, Jones, Loville and Floyd)
His second year he only played 6 games due to a foot injury
His 3rd year Rice blew out his knee and he caught 58//733/4
His 4th year was his best year with 63/770/8; but that was as the 3rd WR with Rice putting up 82/1157/9 and TO going 67/1097/14
His 5th year he went 34/429/3 which tied him for the 4th most catches on the team.
His 6th year he caught 30 balls in 16 games as the #3 WR(TO caught 97, Rice caught 75)
His 7th year he caught 54/585/7 as the #2
His 8th year he caught 32/332/1 and was 5th on the team in catches
His 9th year he wasn't a 49er
his 10th year never happened

So he had 2 seasons where he was the #2 WR. He had less than 4 catches per game in each of those two seasons.

In terms of starts, those were the only two games he started 16 games. He only had one other season with double digit starts (where he was the #3 behind Owens and Rice still). He started every game he played in 96, but only played 6 games. All in all during his 49er career he started 66 of 111 games.

That's not a solid #2. That's not a solid #3.